Topic: If Bitcoins Go Up Will USB Bitcoin Miners Be Profitable? - page 3. (Read 12609 times)
Also you are severely underpricing your time value. Holding BTC for a year takes 0 time. Running a miner takes what 5-10 min a week? That's 4-8 hours a year? What's your time worth to you? In my opinion miners can be considered for purchase under the following conditions. Difficulty is going to stop increasing because it is unprofitable to buy more miners and there is no new technology on the horizon. Also miners sales price is very close to manufacturing costs and supply will be diminishing as manufacturers stop producing them because it is no longer profitable. Currently we are nowhere near these conditions. Numerous 28nm tech is coming and difficulty shows no sign of abating. The chip production costs even for 28nm tech chips is likely a few dollars per chip.
Tobias, you really don't get it, hm? You are talking about "how to debate a subject", but the point is "how to do simple math". And you failed.
Scenario A: (your way)
You bought a Block Erupter for 35$
You mined 0.1 Bitcoins with it before the power consumption costs more than your mining reward.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin.
You sell your 0.1 Bitcoins for 100$ and say "Hey, I made 65$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters make Money!"
Scenario B: (the one you need braincells for)
You bought Bitcoins for 35$.
You got 0.25 Bitcoins at the Price of 140$ each Bitcoin.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin
You sell your 0.25 Bitcoins for 250$ and say "Hey, I made 215$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters suck!"
The difference is: B gives you 150$, but only if you have braincells.
But clearly your point was: Hey, 35$, who needs such peanuts, just throw it away in a most delightful way.
Scenario A: (your way)
You bought a Block Erupter for 35$
You mined 0.1 Bitcoins with it before the power consumption costs more than your mining reward.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin.
You sell your 0.1 Bitcoins for 100$ and say "Hey, I made 65$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters make Money!"
Scenario B: (the one you need braincells for)
You bought Bitcoins for 35$.
You got 0.25 Bitcoins at the Price of 140$ each Bitcoin.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin
You sell your 0.25 Bitcoins for 250$ and say "Hey, I made 215$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters suck!"
The difference is: B gives you 150$, but only if you have braincells.
But clearly your point was: Hey, 35$, who needs such peanuts, just throw it away in a most delightful way.
WOW at the above post. A dozen posts before you explaining it and it is still over your head. I like that BTC is a zero sum game so the more people like that the better for the rest who understand it. Your loses are my gains and there's nobody to print more or steal more to bail you out of your dumb decisions. Also the deflationary aspect of bitcoin makes it all seem correct so you'll keep on pouring more value into the system incorrectly. I'm all for it.
Ok so what is your plan all knowing bitcoin fortune teller? There is no need to be hostile just because you don't know how to correctly debate a subject *waits for another unnecessarily rude post*
WOW at the above post. A dozen posts before you explaining it and it is still over your head. I like that BTC is a zero sum game so the more people like that the better for the rest who understand it. Your loses are my gains and there's nobody to print more or steal more to bail you out of your dumb decisions. Also the deflationary aspect of bitcoin makes it all seem correct so you'll keep on pouring more value into the system incorrectly. I'm all for it.
Currently you can get around $.25 a day mining 24/7 with a usb asicminer (underestimate) depending on your luck.Therefore at the current difficulty it would take around 140 days to remake the initial investment and even if the difficulty increased a few times bitcoin price would increase (in theory) to respond to increased difficulty, so you would mine less coins for more money. The beauty of usb miners is that the investment is so low that it allows newer miners to join the game without a huge risk, which helps to legitimize the bitcoin as a globally accepted currency making it a safer investment for everyone. And once you pay back your $35 everything else is profit. You can even save all the bitcoins you mine now and sell them in a year or two for a huge profit if the market doesn't crash because you can live without $35 
So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
At the moment... BTC.01 or less..085 after 6 months
Thanks for disproving your own claim.
Even assuming no slowing in difficulty growth, in the next six weeks and waiting a week for delivery, and subtracting 0.05 BTC for power cost the unit would produce 0.08 BTC net revenue. Clearly 0.08 BTC is > "0.01 BTC or less".
If your primary mining goal is profit then the fiat price of bitcoins is irrelevant. When purchasing an asic miner you are essentially buying an unknown inflow of bitcoins in the future. To fairly value your profit/loss from mining (not currency speculation), you must denominate all income and expenses in bitcoin when they occur.
If you lose bitcoins from mining, but gain fiat due to bitcoins appreciating, then mining activities have generated a loss.
I previously posted a more detailed explanation that may help with this concept.
If you lose bitcoins from mining, but gain fiat due to bitcoins appreciating, then mining activities have generated a loss.
I previously posted a more detailed explanation that may help with this concept.
Unless you pay for your electricity in BTC, the mining factor is the thing that determines when you have to shut down your miners as they are making less than the cost of running them. If you have free electricity, then you could just run them until they die - the difficulty would be irrelevant to you. Hell if BTC shoot up in value, or the heat they produce is valuable to you, you can always bring mothballed miners back into duty while the returns are +ve..
You make ROI the second your miner produces one satoshi more than the miner and the electricity have cost you up until that point...
That is not the same as saying that buying that miner is a good idea in the first place - there is an opportunity cost whenever you put your money somewhere, but having made any profit at all is ROI - not having made the best investment way back when...
You make ROI the second your miner produces one satoshi more than the miner and the electricity have cost you up until that point...
That is not the same as saying that buying that miner is a good idea in the first place - there is an opportunity cost whenever you put your money somewhere, but having made any profit at all is ROI - not having made the best investment way back when...
So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
At the moment... BTC.01 or less..085 after 6 months
Thanks for disproving your own claim.
Even assuming no slowing in difficulty growth, in the next six weeks and waiting a week for delivery, and subtracting 0.05 BTC for power cost the unit would produce 0.08 BTC net revenue. Clearly 0.08 BTC is > "0.01 BTC or less".So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
At the moment... BTC.01 or less.Seeing as a USB BE would generate more than that in the first week I think that is dubious.
At 0.1 BTC (or less) is is almost certainly profitable.
At 0.15 BTC would likely take a long time (6+ months) and would require cheap power and difficulty growth slowing significantly in 2014.
At 0.2 BTC I don't see turning a profit under any conditions.
So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
At the moment... BTC.01 or less.Seeing as a USB BE would generate more than that in the first week I think that is dubious.
At 0.1 BTC (or less) is is almost certainly profitable.
At 0.15 BTC would likely take a long time (6+ months) and would require cheap power and difficulty growth slowing significantly in 2014.
At 0.2 BTC I don't see turning a profit under any conditions.
So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
At the moment... BTC.01 or less.
Preach on, brother integrity42!!!!!
I am continually dumbfounded by noobs who think that buying USB erupters in any amount will make them a profit, and they have to logically sort out how long they will have to mine to break even, and that is assuming that the price of BTC doesn't crash through the floor.
They make make "X" amount of BTC, but if a BTC is worth only 23 cents, then it is decidedly non-impressive.
I tend to focus on how many dollars I will end up with from my LiteCoin mining operation, but then again, LTC has lots of room to grow whereas BTC has maxed out already.
In the past I have explained how the ASIC manufacturers use their ASICS to mine FOR THEMSELVES for months before giving them to the people who prepaid for them. The ASIC manufacturers would be fools to not do it!
I am continually dumbfounded by noobs who think that buying USB erupters in any amount will make them a profit, and they have to logically sort out how long they will have to mine to break even, and that is assuming that the price of BTC doesn't crash through the floor.
They make make "X" amount of BTC, but if a BTC is worth only 23 cents, then it is decidedly non-impressive.
I tend to focus on how many dollars I will end up with from my LiteCoin mining operation, but then again, LTC has lots of room to grow whereas BTC has maxed out already.
In the past I have explained how the ASIC manufacturers use their ASICS to mine FOR THEMSELVES for months before giving them to the people who prepaid for them. The ASIC manufacturers would be fools to not do it!
if you buy a USB miner at 30$ and in 3 years 1 BTC worth 1000$ => you have a ROI ^^
You would not ROI in BTC terms, which is all that matters. If you pay $100 for a miner when BTC=$100USD, then you paid 1BTC for it.
If the miner only gives you a maximum of 0.4BTC back, then you have lost 60% your investment.
If BTC goes $1000, you will have 0.4BTC which is $400.
But if you didn't buy the miner and kept your 1BTC you'd have $1000. So where did the other $600 go?
To the ASIC manufacturer who sold you -- the idiot -- the overpriced hardware.
The ASIC manufacturer is laughing at you -- the idiot -- all the way to the bank -- because you -- the idiot -- think that ROI in USD is what matters -- it doesn't.
ONLY ROI IN BTC matters.
Hopefully this post permanently clarifies things for idiots.
So what price would a USB maybe be profitable? BTC.1, BTC.05, BTC.01?
You can group buy USB miners? If so what section of the forums would I find this in?
To ROI with a USB ASIC is to buy them via a group buy here or somewhere cheap. Then onsell them on ebay for more. Instant ROI!
To ROI with a USB ASIC is to buy them via a group buy here or somewhere cheap. Then onsell them on ebay for more. Instant ROI!
There is a way to make money with USB miners. You'd need to have a lot of them (like hundreds or thousands) pimping away for you.
The only problem is that you would normally pay for the miners, either in $ or BTC. And that ruins the profit for a long time to come.
So the solution, although not entirely LEGAL in the strictest definition of the word, would be to steal or otherwise obtain USB miners in a way that costs you no $ or BTC.
Then you would have only profit from mining with them.
So you need to find the location of these ASIC companies and go visit them late at night.....
It's better to mine Scrypt coins, where the resale value of the GPUs will stay.
The only problem is that you would normally pay for the miners, either in $ or BTC. And that ruins the profit for a long time to come.
So the solution, although not entirely LEGAL in the strictest definition of the word, would be to steal or otherwise obtain USB miners in a way that costs you no $ or BTC.
Then you would have only profit from mining with them.
So you need to find the location of these ASIC companies and go visit them late at night.....
It's better to mine Scrypt coins, where the resale value of the GPUs will stay.
Your mentioned should be the current fiat price.
Currently, more the better. The small amount like 330Mhash/s unless you have a way to re-construct for Scrypt(N,1,1) or Scrypt (1024,1,1) array, You only protect the network instead of making profit in fiat.
Additionally, the methods of finding. Currently the finding method is currently not so optimal due to the additional stable cost like air conditioning. If you do something in nerd way like repack your "rig" as engines, you will be safe from the cooling cost as the cooling cost kills your efforts.
If you want to win the match, Only three ways. Obtaining more hashrate, Doing scryptmining or Finding a way to reconstruct the Scrypt (1024,1,1) array with your current usb miners.
Currently, more the better. The small amount like 330Mhash/s unless you have a way to re-construct for Scrypt(N,1,1) or Scrypt (1024,1,1) array, You only protect the network instead of making profit in fiat.
Additionally, the methods of finding. Currently the finding method is currently not so optimal due to the additional stable cost like air conditioning. If you do something in nerd way like repack your "rig" as engines, you will be safe from the cooling cost as the cooling cost kills your efforts.
If you want to win the match, Only three ways. Obtaining more hashrate, Doing scryptmining or Finding a way to reconstruct the Scrypt (1024,1,1) array with your current usb miners.
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