...I would wager it did not address any points in my post though!
Yes, yes you would. And lose. As usual.
Same boring shit, nothing worth mentioning, really.
Topic: If it goes to $275, are you going to keep faith or just give up save the little. - page 5. (Read 10310 times)
December 20, 2014, 12:44:12 PM
Yes, yes you would. And lose. As usual.
Same boring shit, nothing worth mentioning, really.
December 20, 2014, 12:37:25 PM
I can't se the negative drivel you replied. I would wager it did not address any points in my post though!
December 20, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
...
Ignore the Bears and trolls like NotLambChop...
Ignore the Bears and trolls like NotLambChop...
No one has lost money by listening to me. Those who listened to you and held are now drinking to your health. MD20/20, from the neck, behind a dumpster
December 20, 2014, 12:13:11 PM
I got my bitcoins without investing. Will not sell them for a while
December 20, 2014, 12:09:37 PM
While I accept that trading is oftentimes more based on mass psychology than actual facts, I still find the "gox effect" to be puzzling.
If there were about 800k coins that either didn't exist or had already been stolen and were elsewhere, then there was 800k of fake liquidity in the market. Now depending on how you like to define total liquidity, that would have been anywhere between 5 and 20 percent of total liquidity.
When this was exposed, this should have had the effect on the market of bitcoin BEING 5 to 20 percent rarer, since the pricing up until then had been based on those coins being available.
I know the willy bot would have had some effect on ultimate highs, but I'm not convinced that in it's absence we wouldn't have seen 90% of the peaks at least, because really, independent traders would have been trying to work toward the same effect.
Anyway, I guess the mass confidence loss in the market due to gox shenanigans has had a big effect, thing is, when that confidence is back, that 5-20% of liquidity is still missing, so there seems to my mind a theoretical possibility that the market could see unprecedented rises.
If there were about 800k coins that either didn't exist or had already been stolen and were elsewhere, then there was 800k of fake liquidity in the market. Now depending on how you like to define total liquidity, that would have been anywhere between 5 and 20 percent of total liquidity.
When this was exposed, this should have had the effect on the market of bitcoin BEING 5 to 20 percent rarer, since the pricing up until then had been based on those coins being available.
I know the willy bot would have had some effect on ultimate highs, but I'm not convinced that in it's absence we wouldn't have seen 90% of the peaks at least, because really, independent traders would have been trying to work toward the same effect.
Anyway, I guess the mass confidence loss in the market due to gox shenanigans has had a big effect, thing is, when that confidence is back, that 5-20% of liquidity is still missing, so there seems to my mind a theoretical possibility that the market could see unprecedented rises.
True. But don't forget that people who bought vapour coins on gox currently have nothing. Lots of people. That is bound to have an effect. Willy is irrelevant as the last bubble was led by China and has never been confirmed. The major reason in my mind for this long bear market is that there were two bubbles in 2013 which drove up the price massively. It is understandable that the market is working through those gains now. For people who see the speculative potential of Bitcoin it has allowed some excellent opportunities for accumulation. If Bitcoin was a major technological disruptive revolution at 1000 dollars, then it is a major buy at 300.
Nearly half a billion dollars VC funding has trickled into Bitcoin in the last year. Engineering a price rise in this thin market is trivial and if that is what it takes to bring in the next major wave of adoption for BTC then that is what will occur IMO.
I see a lot of intelligent people question the use case for Bitcoin. For merchants it is a clear no brainer over reversible transactions like cc or PayPal that charge excessive fees. For the public I think it will be the first asset since gold that will function as a reliable and growing store of value with global utility as an Internet currency in the future. That is the selling point, the monetary properties that we all take for granted now, but were amazed with when we first discovered bitcoin.
Expecting such a fantastic asset class to be owned and used by joe public to the exclusion of 'big money' is silly. For this reason I think we will see massive price rises front run by investment houses and high net worth individuals or funds, possibly facilitated by an ETF.
Ignore the Bears and trolls like NotLambChop who sold very early and rue that decision every day, hoping for one more opportunity to get back in. They wouldn't be here day in and out if they didn't hold precisely the same belief in the potential of Bitcoin as everyone else.
December 20, 2014, 11:01:04 AM
While I accept that trading is oftentimes more based on mass psychology than actual facts, I still find the "gox effect" to be puzzling.
If there were about 800k coins that either didn't exist or had already been stolen and were elsewhere, then there was 800k of fake liquidity in the market. Now depending on how you like to define total liquidity, that would have been anywhere between 5 and 20 percent of total liquidity.
When this was exposed, this should have had the effect on the market of bitcoin BEING 5 to 20 percent rarer, since the pricing up until then had been based on those coins being available.
I know the willy bot would have had some effect on ultimate highs, but I'm not convinced that in it's absence we wouldn't have seen 90% of the peaks at least, because really, independent traders would have been trying to work toward the same effect.
Anyway, I guess the mass confidence loss in the market due to gox shenanigans has had a big effect, thing is, when that confidence is back, that 5-20% of liquidity is still missing, so there seems to my mind a theoretical possibility that the market could see unprecedented rises.
If there were about 800k coins that either didn't exist or had already been stolen and were elsewhere, then there was 800k of fake liquidity in the market. Now depending on how you like to define total liquidity, that would have been anywhere between 5 and 20 percent of total liquidity.
When this was exposed, this should have had the effect on the market of bitcoin BEING 5 to 20 percent rarer, since the pricing up until then had been based on those coins being available.
I know the willy bot would have had some effect on ultimate highs, but I'm not convinced that in it's absence we wouldn't have seen 90% of the peaks at least, because really, independent traders would have been trying to work toward the same effect.
Anyway, I guess the mass confidence loss in the market due to gox shenanigans has had a big effect, thing is, when that confidence is back, that 5-20% of liquidity is still missing, so there seems to my mind a theoretical possibility that the market could see unprecedented rises.
December 20, 2014, 08:47:36 AM
bitcoin itself is still as good as it always has been..
BUT
the crappy exchanges are not what they promised to be,
i remember in 2012-2013, mtgox btc-e and other exchanges were doing lots of trades, where most order lines were in whole bitcoins.. now just checking out btc-e the amount of bitcoin orders between $313-$317 is less than 50 bitcoins COMBINED
many people can remember the days of seeing large 'walls' of 500-5000 bitcoins. lots of people were throwing 5+ bitcoins per order. but now its small decimal amounts,
all of which is not due to faith in bitcoin, but lack of faith in third parties holding the bitcoin for you.
basically the price is not falling due to hate of bitcoin, but the fact that less people are trusting third parties as centres to gamble/day trade coins. and instead only as exit routes to get a bit of fiat to pay their small lifestyle costs.
we need to STOP using these crappy exchanges as price discovery indicators, as they are not true indicators of supply and demand. people that are truly selling for FIAT should not use these centralized crappy exchanges, but instead value it based on how much people are willing to pay in their own area/country.
there are 13.5 million coins in circulation. but at any time there are less than 200 coins being traded in any given 30 minute period. we should NEVER be basing an entire economy of 13.5 million coins based on the manipulated movements of just a couple hundred coins.
i am seriously wondering why so many have not woken up to this fact yet.
BUT
the crappy exchanges are not what they promised to be,
i remember in 2012-2013, mtgox btc-e and other exchanges were doing lots of trades, where most order lines were in whole bitcoins.. now just checking out btc-e the amount of bitcoin orders between $313-$317 is less than 50 bitcoins COMBINED
many people can remember the days of seeing large 'walls' of 500-5000 bitcoins. lots of people were throwing 5+ bitcoins per order. but now its small decimal amounts,
all of which is not due to faith in bitcoin, but lack of faith in third parties holding the bitcoin for you.
basically the price is not falling due to hate of bitcoin, but the fact that less people are trusting third parties as centres to gamble/day trade coins. and instead only as exit routes to get a bit of fiat to pay their small lifestyle costs.
we need to STOP using these crappy exchanges as price discovery indicators, as they are not true indicators of supply and demand. people that are truly selling for FIAT should not use these centralized crappy exchanges, but instead value it based on how much people are willing to pay in their own area/country.
there are 13.5 million coins in circulation. but at any time there are less than 200 coins being traded in any given 30 minute period. we should NEVER be basing an entire economy of 13.5 million coins based on the manipulated movements of just a couple hundred coins.
i am seriously wondering why so many have not woken up to this fact yet.
This is an interesting observation Franky1.
I guess the damage of Gox continues. You're right - for me personally I do not trade BTC like I trade cryptos. I just don't trust any exchange at all. I buy and then immediately move the coin to cold storage. I'm sure there are many people like that.
Well, I do not understand how anyone could ever trust exchanges as storage of value. That is/was pure craziness. If one does not need to trade why leave there money, when there is extremely cheap and fast opportunity to withdraw the money (not to cold storage, hot is fine, or many times better).
It must be how people are used to have money in banks, so then even bitcoiners, take exchanges as banks. The exchanges are business as any other: once they feel it is more profitable to pack with your money they will do it. So in this case I would not trust own head. Nobody at Gox should blame anyone else then himself.
December 20, 2014, 08:39:18 AM
BTC has to fall a lot further for it to stop falling if that makes any sense. I've been saying this for a long time now. the numbers are pretty easy to calculate.
3600/coins a day mined at current prices = $1.1 mil. which equates to $33/mil/month. That much money needs to flow into BTC JUST TO BREAK EVEN. Miners and electricity are fawking expensive and they dump the coins to pay the bills.
The reward half will help but that's in 80 weeks! And even then 1600 coins will still be coming out for 4 years. So at current prices that would mean Still another $15/mil a month. This is to just cover the new coins. If anybody spends other coins then more money needs to come in to cover those.
It's really not that hard to see why BTC will be on a downtrend for a long time.
3600/coins a day mined at current prices = $1.1 mil. which equates to $33/mil/month. That much money needs to flow into BTC JUST TO BREAK EVEN. Miners and electricity are fawking expensive and they dump the coins to pay the bills.
The reward half will help but that's in 80 weeks! And even then 1600 coins will still be coming out for 4 years. So at current prices that would mean Still another $15/mil a month. This is to just cover the new coins. If anybody spends other coins then more money needs to come in to cover those.
It's really not that hard to see why BTC will be on a downtrend for a long time.
If you cannot see the obvious fallacy in this argument then just promise not to moan you didn't buy in when you had the chance.
December 20, 2014, 08:28:59 AM
bitcoin itself is still as good as it always has been..
BUT
the crappy exchanges are not what they promised to be,
i remember in 2012-2013, mtgox btc-e and other exchanges were doing lots of trades, where most order lines were in whole bitcoins.. now just checking out btc-e the amount of bitcoin orders between $313-$317 is less than 50 bitcoins COMBINED
many people can remember the days of seeing large 'walls' of 500-5000 bitcoins. lots of people were throwing 5+ bitcoins per order. but now its small decimal amounts,
all of which is not due to faith in bitcoin, but lack of faith in third parties holding the bitcoin for you.
basically the price is not falling due to hate of bitcoin, but the fact that less people are trusting third parties as centres to gamble/day trade coins. and instead only as exit routes to get a bit of fiat to pay their small lifestyle costs.
we need to STOP using these crappy exchanges as price discovery indicators, as they are not true indicators of supply and demand. people that are truly selling for FIAT should not use these centralized crappy exchanges, but instead value it based on how much people are willing to pay in their own area/country.
there are 13.5 million coins in circulation. but at any time there are less than 200 coins being traded in any given 30 minute period. we should NEVER be basing an entire economy of 13.5 million coins based on the manipulated movements of just a couple hundred coins.
i am seriously wondering why so many have not woken up to this fact yet.
BUT
the crappy exchanges are not what they promised to be,
i remember in 2012-2013, mtgox btc-e and other exchanges were doing lots of trades, where most order lines were in whole bitcoins.. now just checking out btc-e the amount of bitcoin orders between $313-$317 is less than 50 bitcoins COMBINED
many people can remember the days of seeing large 'walls' of 500-5000 bitcoins. lots of people were throwing 5+ bitcoins per order. but now its small decimal amounts,
all of which is not due to faith in bitcoin, but lack of faith in third parties holding the bitcoin for you.
basically the price is not falling due to hate of bitcoin, but the fact that less people are trusting third parties as centres to gamble/day trade coins. and instead only as exit routes to get a bit of fiat to pay their small lifestyle costs.
we need to STOP using these crappy exchanges as price discovery indicators, as they are not true indicators of supply and demand. people that are truly selling for FIAT should not use these centralized crappy exchanges, but instead value it based on how much people are willing to pay in their own area/country.
there are 13.5 million coins in circulation. but at any time there are less than 200 coins being traded in any given 30 minute period. we should NEVER be basing an entire economy of 13.5 million coins based on the manipulated movements of just a couple hundred coins.
i am seriously wondering why so many have not woken up to this fact yet.
This is an interesting observation Franky1.
I guess the damage of Gox continues. You're right - for me personally I do not trade BTC like I trade cryptos. I just don't trust any exchange at all. I buy and then immediately move the coin to cold storage. I'm sure there are many people like that.
December 20, 2014, 06:11:07 AM
I'm gonna BUY BUY BUY BUY ..
and I suggest y'all do the same
too late, rally alreadyand I suggest y'all do the same
ripple is going to
December 20, 2014, 05:22:37 AM
I bet we'll look back in 10 years and call this the worst year (price-wise) for bitcoin. I think all subsequent years will be better than this one in terms of percentage raise or drop in a given year.
This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
The crisis of the bitcoin price certainly started with gox imploding but this was not entirely what caused bitcoin's price to do so poorly this year.This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
IMO the price was pressured largely by the fact that many merchants were selling off their bitcoin they were receiving as revenue and few people are buying new bitcoin in order to pay for things at places like overstock. Once consumer adoption catches up with merchant adoption the price should rebound and stabilize
December 20, 2014, 12:54:59 AM
I bet we'll look back in 10 years and call this the worst year (price-wise) for bitcoin. I think all subsequent years will be better than this one in terms of percentage raise or drop in a given year.
This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
2.
Although. It might have been more damage than is recoverable. We'll see.
December 19, 2014, 10:46:20 PM
Everybody who knows how to trade knows this is the time to buy... Soon this opportunity will be GONE 
December 19, 2014, 08:59:49 PM
...save the little left that you invested?
Or are you going to buy more?
Or are you going to buy more?
The more it goes down, the more I buy.
If it goes to $100, I'll buy even more.
If it goes to $10, I'll buy even more.
If it goes to $1, I'll buy even more.
I suppose I could watch all my value evaporate and the whole experiment could fail and disappear, but I'll ride it all the way down to the end.
If it ever gets to the point where I can buy 1,000 BTC per $1, I'll just buy up all the available bitcoins and own it all!
I hate when the first post is so good. I feel like I'm done the thread already. I guess I'll read the rest...
December 19, 2014, 08:32:08 PM
I'm gonna BUY BUY BUY BUY ..
and I suggest y'all do the same
and I suggest y'all do the same
December 19, 2014, 07:47:06 PM
Didn't reach my buy order so a bit disappointed there. I was expecting it to drop further taken into consideration the number of sell orders in place and after close monitoring the order book. When it reach 310 there's the main turning point when you can see large orders suddenly coming in
it still could over the next few days. I'd just leave it December 19, 2014, 07:30:17 PM
Didn't reach my buy order so a bit disappointed there. I was expecting it to drop further taken into consideration the number of sell orders in place and after close monitoring the order book. When it reach 310 there's the main turning point when you can see large orders suddenly coming in
December 19, 2014, 07:17:44 PM
I bet we'll look back in 10 years and call this the worst year (price-wise) for bitcoin. I think all subsequent years will be better than this one in terms of percentage raise or drop in a given year.
This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
This year was an anomaly because of the MtGox Willie buying bot. We're just recovering from a big scam that's all. I think Karpeles caused more damage than most people realize.
December 19, 2014, 06:50:29 PM
it will probably go to 275,but I hope it does not do it deeper
December 19, 2014, 06:48:00 PM
Keeping the faith, no doubt. Price changes alone don't worry me about bitcoin. What would worry me is if something was wrong with the underlying protocol or something intrinsic to the idea of bitcoin itself. I think bitcoin is great and the more it drops the more tempted I am to buy more. Though I admit, I am getting tired of it dropping but not enough to cause me to sell without some clear problem.
I think the same. Only problem we have right now is that in christmas everybody sell their bitcoins for gifts same it happenned the last year what ended in a price drop.This week we won't see any price spike.
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