BTC Transactions are near instant, and if nothing bad has happened 10 seconds after you've sent your transaction, (or received it) then you know with a certain level of confidence that it is good.
When you are shipping physical products, you can wait for the time it takes a block to confirm before doing anything, or you can immediately start packing it as soon as you get the transaction.
By the time you are finished applying the shipping label, you would know if you had been paid or not.
Digital downloads, well, it depends on what the product or service is (gambling games, ebooks, etc.) and how expensive the item is, to decide on whether to give instant access to a buyer or to let them wait a few minutes.
If, for example, I pay for software, I can wait 10 minutes to receive the unlock code while I have already or still am downloading the archive.
When the day comes that I can pay for my electricity, my newspaper subscription, my cable TV, my internet service, my water utility and my credit cards with bitcoin, I certainly will not mind that I had to send the transaction 1 hour ago.
In fact, I will just send the payment, then go to the gym or take a walk outside. By the time I get back, I have an email that says "Thank you for paying your electricity. The lineman outside your house will now leave without incident." Then the dude in the orange uniform just around the corner gets a message on his phone or tablet and leaves.
I would love to pay for movie tickets with bitcoin, get a ticket or stub, and watch it an hour or two later. Usually, the shortest wait in most modern cinemas are at least 10 minutes (where they don't allow viewers to enter in the middle of the movie.)
If you do a local trade with me for a suitcase of cash, I'll give it to you once I see the transaction on the network that you just broadcasted from your phone, and walk away after a handshake. I wouldn't even count the seconds.
I'm sure I can run after you if I see a double-spend attempt and my .45 ACP JHP travels only a bit slower than the speed of sound.
Topic: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? - page 3. (Read 7583 times)
March 21, 2014, 03:46:08 AM
March 21, 2014, 03:30:34 AM
The reason transactions take so 'long' is because it's checking whether or not the transaction is real, transactions in a banking system are done quickly because it's done by a human being but of course human beings can easily make mistakes and they have fucked up peoples transactions in the past or caused problems, they can also interfere with your banking if they find anything or just block you based on country. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are indiscriminate, automated and decentralised so everything is a little slow but in return for this there's no interference in any transactions and nobody can stop anything.
March 21, 2014, 03:22:19 AM
What was expected? An "instant currency"?! How about creating a "IWillGuessWhatYouWillDoCoin" alt-coin? A coin that even before you know, spends itself by buying random stuff out of the web and go ahead with the payment? 
March 21, 2014, 03:18:02 AM
Bitcoin was designed as an Internet currency; it takes 24/h or more to ship a product so a 10 minute confirmation delay is irrelevant. Bitcoin wasn't intended to replace fiat as the new global currency IMO.
March 21, 2014, 02:51:26 AM
hey dude a few minutes is too long?
March 21, 2014, 02:47:53 AM
You can compare it to a creditcard payment, the transaction takes places almost instantly.
With a creditcard sweeping your card only confirms you have the funds to pay, but the actual payment is done days later and can be charged back up to 90 days.
If you're trading for a lot of money waiting for a couple confirmations is in fact really short comparing it to other payment methods.
With a creditcard sweeping your card only confirms you have the funds to pay, but the actual payment is done days later and can be charged back up to 90 days.
If you're trading for a lot of money waiting for a couple confirmations is in fact really short comparing it to other payment methods.
^^^^ What he/she said.
Bitcoin is the fastest electronic payment protocol in existence.
I no longer want to have to keep records of my spending to figure out what my real bank balance is
March 21, 2014, 02:41:41 AM
If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long?
Compared to what? Banking days?
The 10 minute confirmation time is integral to the mining algorithm. I think Satoshi knew what they were doing.
March 21, 2014, 12:49:50 AM
Transactions are instant. Confirmations take 10 mins which is incredibly short compared to 2 days for a wire.
Not to mention the wire is like 1000 times more expensive.
Not to mention the wire is like 1000 times more expensive.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
March 20, 2014, 11:54:41 PM
Should you really be pimping your alt coin here
March 20, 2014, 08:31:09 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
If he did, I haven't seen it before.
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
If he did, I haven't seen it before.
Satoshi was a genius, actually he was a genius's genius.
It was not his intention to leave the World with his famous last words of "there are still more ways to attack than I can count." He still had a lot of work to do, and if the transaction times had needed adjustment, he would have done so. But remember, times have changed a great deal since 2010. What was best then, is not necessarily what is best now.
Unfortunately, he and Gavin had a major disagreement. Satoshi wanted to remain secretive and independent of government, and Gavin felt it was necessary to cooperate and openly communicate with the federal government. The day Gavin told him he was going to talk to the feds was the day Satoshi vanished into thin air.
Miraculously, another equally talented young developer appeared on the scene recently, who has begun the process of picking up where Satoshi left off. With his own coin, he reduced the transaction times as you suggested, completed the 51% defense, and continues to this day to work at perfecting the beautiful but unfinished code of Satoshi.
March 20, 2014, 06:58:18 PM
I think you're confusing transactions with confirmations. The former is almost instant.
Yes. It is like each block having the DNA with the whole history of Life on
In the blockchain that DNA is the "Block ID" of a block, which is the cryptographic hash of the previous hash: A-CHAIN-OF-BLOCKS.
A cryptographic hash of 256 bits, like SHA256("Your secret message, name, label, text, etc...")=................................256bits? is a bit like a tweet that makes your text of any lenght into a string of 256 bits. It is a number. It is usually expressed alphanumerically because it is usually represented in hexadecimal. It is a very sensitive tweet and will be completely different and unrelated to anything else with just a small change in your message bundle. You cannot unbundle anything from your message of any length once you find the SHA256() that bundles your message bundle into some 256 bits gibberish.
With every new block the weight you would have to lift to recreate your own version of the blockchain and be able to add new blocks with validated transactions - of recent history - on top, multiplies!
You can tweet me at @dandosage
My tweets are like this: "I have never seen the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Theatre and then watch cool crowds watch those two dolphins dance and love those Www22wwW(-)cubeBALLooNs of mine."
March 20, 2014, 06:55:47 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Transactions average 1.4 seconds from anywhere to anywhere. Transaction clearing is what blocks are doing. Transaction clearance for credit cards take between 30 and 45 days.
Quote
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
Yes he did. He chose the 10 minute interval because it was a long enough period to prevent orphaned blocks, most of the time, due to more than one node discovering a block solution within the time period it takes to propagate a block from one edge of the network to the other. He was assuming that, in a future that Bitcoin was wildly successful, blocks would be very large data sets and the p2p network would be very large; both contributing to network delays that might extend the time for a block to propogate from edge to edge for up to a whole minute. Therefore, in order to limit the risk of orphaned blocks (and the blockchain splits that often accompany them) the target interval had to be several times longer than the worst case scenario for block propogation delays. He also wanted the interval to fit neatly into human time cycles for our mental convience. He could have done a 6 min block interval, for 10 per hour, but he was concerned that wouldn't be enough. His fears seem correct, because even with the 10 minute interval we average about 1.5% of blocks released onto the network are orphaned. A 6 minute interval would make that much worse, and 2 minute interval would make that rate simply awful.
Best answer so far. Bravo.
Yes excellent lesson thank you MoonShadow
For chump change transactions there are altcoins or cash. BTC is still much much MUCH faster than any other payment method.
I had a SEPA reversed after 5 weeks and clawed it back from the bank 2 weeks later, so 7 weeks transaction
... U.S. ACH can be reversed for a year or so. Those who complain about 10 mins are crybabies IMHO 
March 20, 2014, 06:44:34 PM
If manatees are so smart,then why do they live in igloos?
March 20, 2014, 06:36:09 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Transactions average 1.4 seconds from anywhere to anywhere. Transaction clearing is what blocks are doing. Transaction clearance for credit cards take between 30 and 45 days.
Quote
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
Yes he did. He chose the 10 minute interval because it was a long enough period to prevent orphaned blocks, most of the time, due to more than one node discovering a block solution within the time period it takes to propagate a block from one edge of the network to the other. He was assuming that, in a future that Bitcoin was wildly successful, blocks would be very large data sets and the p2p network would be very large; both contributing to network delays that might extend the time for a block to propogate from edge to edge for up to a whole minute. Therefore, in order to limit the risk of orphaned blocks (and the blockchain splits that often accompany them) the target interval had to be several times longer than the worst case scenario for block propogation delays. He also wanted the interval to fit neatly into human time cycles for our mental convience. He could have done a 6 min block interval, for 10 per hour, but he was concerned that wouldn't be enough. His fears seem correct, because even with the 10 minute interval we average about 1.5% of blocks released onto the network are orphaned. A 6 minute interval would make that much worse, and 2 minute interval would make that rate simply awful.
The more I learn about Bitcoin, the more amazed I am by Satoshi's forward thinking.
I've said many time before, that Satoshi (if only one person) was a polymath. If you look deep into how bitcoin works, there are so many moving parts that just mesh so well and interlock, it seems so improbable that anyone could have gotten this all right the first try, but that's what happened. The system is so elegant, and subtle in so many ways. Many of these alt-coins don't recognize these subtle metrics, and assume that too many things are simply arbitrary. I've found that there are few things that were arbitrary about bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
March 20, 2014, 06:19:34 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Transactions average 1.4 seconds from anywhere to anywhere. Transaction clearing is what blocks are doing. Transaction clearance for credit cards take between 30 and 45 days.
Quote
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
Yes he did. He chose the 10 minute interval because it was a long enough period to prevent orphaned blocks, most of the time, due to more than one node discovering a block solution within the time period it takes to propagate a block from one edge of the network to the other. He was assuming that, in a future that Bitcoin was wildly successful, blocks would be very large data sets and the p2p network would be very large; both contributing to network delays that might extend the time for a block to propogate from edge to edge for up to a whole minute. Therefore, in order to limit the risk of orphaned blocks (and the blockchain splits that often accompany them) the target interval had to be several times longer than the worst case scenario for block propogation delays. He also wanted the interval to fit neatly into human time cycles for our mental convience. He could have done a 6 min block interval, for 10 per hour, but he was concerned that wouldn't be enough. His fears seem correct, because even with the 10 minute interval we average about 1.5% of blocks released onto the network are orphaned. A 6 minute interval would make that much worse, and 2 minute interval would make that rate simply awful.
The more I learn about Bitcoin, the more amazed I am by Satoshi's forward thinking.
March 20, 2014, 05:31:56 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Transactions are almost instant. You got something wrong.
March 20, 2014, 05:29:36 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.
Transactions average 1.4 seconds from anywhere to anywhere. Transaction clearing is what blocks are doing. Transaction clearance for credit cards take between 30 and 45 days.
Quote
Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?
Yes he did. He chose the 10 minute interval because it was a long enough period to prevent orphaned blocks, most of the time, due to more than one node discovering a block solution within the time period it takes to propagate a block from one edge of the network to the other. He was assuming that, in a future that Bitcoin was wildly successful, blocks would be very large data sets and the p2p network would be very large; both contributing to network delays that might extend the time for a block to propogate from edge to edge for up to a whole minute. Therefore, in order to limit the risk of orphaned blocks (and the blockchain splits that often accompany them) the target interval had to be several times longer than the worst case scenario for block propogation delays. He also wanted the interval to fit neatly into human time cycles for our mental convience. He could have done a 6 min block interval, for 10 per hour, but he was concerned that wouldn't be enough. His fears seem correct, because even with the 10 minute interval we average about 1.5% of blocks released onto the network are orphaned. A 6 minute interval would make that much worse, and 2 minute interval would make that rate simply awful.
Best answer so far. Bravo.
March 20, 2014, 05:00:36 PM
lol, this has to be a level right?
March 20, 2014, 04:59:17 PM
Also, even a 1 minute delay would be too long to wait in many situations. Especially as that would be the average and some confirmations would take longer. When I'm paying by credit card at a supermarket, if it takes as much as 10 seconds it annoys me. When I've finished and paid I don't want to hang around, waiting. So faster confirmation times don't really help unless they are a lot faster, like 50 times faster.
(I don't know whether Satoshi made this point, and don't much care.)
(I don't know whether Satoshi made this point, and don't much care.)
I still don't understand why some people don't get it.
Just like you pay dollars with your credit card at the supermarket you will be paying with BTC with the same transaction time.
The "intermediary" will confirm you have enough coins in your account and make the transaction.
The merchant will ONLY have to wait 10 minutes to get his coins.
Simple.
And with Bitcoin, the intermediary can be the vendor himself, so they don't have to pay Visa to do that for them. If Wal-Mart accepted bitcoins at the counter, they could manage transaction validity checks just fine without hiring some outside contractor.
Sorry maybe I didn't make myself clear.
What I meant is that BTC credit cards are already out there (neo-bee).
Which means that they are the intermediary to do this check and release payment.
The OP's point that it is not as fast as credit cards.
But that is wrong.
It all depends on what kind of information you want to give from now on I suppose
March 20, 2014, 04:45:12 PM
You can compare it to a creditcard payment, the transaction takes places almost instantly.
With a creditcard sweeping your card only confirms you have the funds to pay, but the actual payment is done days later and can be charged back up to 90 days.
If you're trading for a lot of money waiting for a couple confirmations is in fact really short comparing it to other payment methods.
With a creditcard sweeping your card only confirms you have the funds to pay, but the actual payment is done days later and can be charged back up to 90 days.
If you're trading for a lot of money waiting for a couple confirmations is in fact really short comparing it to other payment methods.
.
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