If the Chinese government takes over bitcoin mines

illyiller

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Quote from: MiddleFingerToTheMan on September 21, 2017, 02:20:43 PM

So lets say that the Chinese government declares mining illegal & takes over the mines (likely to happen). Seeing that the vast majority of mining takes place in China, couldn't the government hypothetically reach over 51% of the bitcoin hashing power and basically centralize global bitcoin?
What cryptos, if any, are immune to this "51% attack" ? Is it even an issue? I'm not that well informed on the details of this subject so excuse my ignorance.

It's not clear that a majority of hash power is located inside China, although that's very possible. We only know that Chinese pools accounts for a majority. There are surely miners from around the world that point their hash power at Chinese pools; they can simply point it somewhere else now.

If mining were prohibited or nationalized, a lot of the mining hardware would be physically moved outside of China. There are already a lot of rumors floating around that miners are liquidating mining hardware as quickly as possible now. So, while the news would be shocking to the market, I don't think that the Chinese government would control 51% of hash power. But if they do nationalize mining operations, then it will set off a race for other governments to similarly back miners.

Mometaskers

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Well there would be an increased risk of bitcoin collapsing if that should happen. The question is, what would they gain from it, aside from taking down a yuan competitor? If they bought cheap bit coins, those could become even more useless when a news of a mine takeover gets out. I think it would be more likely for them to keep a thumb on the miners, like how they do to other private enterprises.

Quote from: Ucy on September 21, 2017, 02:33:06 PM

A government declares something illegal, takes over the "illegal" business.. only to continue running it.

Lacks principle. Big Hypocrisy and very immoral

Governments are not exactly known for strictly adhering to moral principles.

Razick

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I doubt the Chinese government would stoop this low.

What they are doing is creating FUD to lower the price and get cheap Bitcoins as a result. It is that simple. ow to create FUD? Simply make it seem like you are against the very thing you are for.

The fact is China has some of the cheapest electricity rate on Earth. Privatized mining isn't going away there any time soon.

BitFinnese

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Quote from: ValVikram on September 21, 2017, 05:22:52 PM

McAfee said they wont Wink

Or maybe the possibility that they will. Who knows, Chinese government are unpredictable and at the same time use any kind of strategy to take advantage of any resources that can boost their economy. and this time it is possible that they will use Bitcoin or Bitcoin miners that can probably be confiscated once they set another aggressive action towards Bitcoin. There are rumor that they are looking at bitcoin miners now after making these Bitcoin exchanges in China to close.

ValVikram

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McAfee said they wont Wink

skorupi17

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: MiddleFingerToTheMan on September 21, 2017, 02:20:43 PM

So lets say that the Chinese government declares mining illegal & takes over the mines (likely to happen). Seeing that the vast majority of mining takes place in China, couldn't the government hypothetically reach over 51% of the bitcoin hashing power and basically centralize global bitcoin?
What cryptos, if any, are immune to this "51% attack" ? Is it even an issue? I'm not that well informed on the details of this subject so excuse my ignorance.

Essentially a change of algorithm or some sort of check of IP to block the miners in china (if possible).

I cannot see how to change the algorithm of Bitcoin. Is this doable? In regards to the blocking of IP address from the miners in China, this is a very weak defense for Bitcoin mining. They can easily use VPN and then they will appear to be mining in another country.

The best possible action for this is to have a hardfork then the remaining 49% separate from these Chinese and kill the other chain where the Chinese miners are.

CroDam

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Miners will move to Russia or Japan.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on September 21, 2017, 04:24:07 PM

51% attack allows attacker to do 2 things - double spend coins and freeze the network (but not at the same time). Assumption that 51% attack gives you full control over the network is a popular misconception. So far there was no case of such attack on the Bitcoin network because its extremely expensive and attacker loses more than they would gain. But using seized equipment may brought down the spending to practical levels, however it's not possible to seize all mines in one moment and switch them to attack mode - we might have some time to prepare. Also, it's very unlikely that China would do it, as openly engaging in a big scale hacking would be bad for their public image on international level.

What would be ruined in the public image of CHINA? They had been double standard ever since. Especially the water territorial dispute between China and Japan and China and Southeast Asian nation. They cry for UNCLOS on Japan issue and ignoring it on the SEA issue. It is more likely China would do this stuff stated by Ucy. Since I believe they care less for their public image but rather they want to secure their power.

Zarbout

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If they ban mining, the other miner will have better rewards. I heard that Russia welcome miners near to nuclear power plants.

leopard2

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POS coins like PPC, NXT, XSPEC or (future) ETH will go through the roof.

hatshepsut93

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51% attack allows attacker to do 2 things - double spend coins and freeze the network (but not at the same time). Assumption that 51% attack gives you full control over the network is a popular misconception. So far there was no case of such attack on the Bitcoin network because its extremely expensive and attacker loses more than they would gain. But using seized equipment may brought down the spending to practical levels, however it's not possible to seize all mines in one moment and switch them to attack mode - we might have some time to prepare. Also, it's very unlikely that China would do it, as openly engaging in a big scale hacking would be bad for their public image on international level.

Astvile

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Thats automatic my dear,if a government declared something illegal then they must continue it because they see better potential of earning money through it that was what always happen.If that happen then dont expect drops because they will continue it

sloworm

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Quote from: Ucy on September 21, 2017, 02:33:06 PM

A government declares something illegal, takes over the "illegal" business.. only to continue running it.

Lacks principle. Big Hypocrisy and very immoral

this is like gold reserve of a country.

brilliant idea if a country hold bitcoin, Chinese are clever people

11-BitNinja

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Quote from: rb26 on September 21, 2017, 03:27:18 PM

Quote from: MiddleFingerToTheMan on September 21, 2017, 02:20:43 PM

So lets say that the Chinese government declares mining illegal & takes over the mines (likely to happen). Seeing that the vast majority of mining takes place in China, couldn't the government hypothetically reach over 51% of the bitcoin hashing power and basically centralize global bitcoin?
What cryptos, if any, are immune to this "51% attack" ? Is it even an issue? I'm not that well informed on the details of this subject so excuse my ignorance.

If the Chinese government took over the mining facilities and companies in their country regardless of what scheme they've done to do so, they will not get the majority of Bitcoin. Even they literally own the 50%+1 of the hash power required, a Hard fork will be made immediately and will kill the chain which China holds. This is the most probable defensive act that will happen. So in the end, Bitcoin will still be decentralized.

I agree with this...or the price of BitCoin would go str8 to the s#itter...

jak3

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I think yes Chinese government can do this easily but they do not need to do this as their government is not showing so much interest in bitcoin but the people are scratching the network for all the money. it's scary but that is the reason the bitcoin network is running without any hitch I expect developers can somehow manage to lower the transaction fees or we should have to start using altcoins soon.

rb26

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Quote from: MiddleFingerToTheMan on September 21, 2017, 02:20:43 PM

So lets say that the Chinese government declares mining illegal & takes over the mines (likely to happen). Seeing that the vast majority of mining takes place in China, couldn't the government hypothetically reach over 51% of the bitcoin hashing power and basically centralize global bitcoin?
What cryptos, if any, are immune to this "51% attack" ? Is it even an issue? I'm not that well informed on the details of this subject so excuse my ignorance.

If the Chinese government took over the mining facilities and companies in their country regardless of what scheme they've done to do so, they will not get the majority of Bitcoin. Even they literally own the 50%+1 of the hash power required, a Hard fork will be made immediately and will kill the chain which China holds. This is the most probable defensive act that will happen. So in the end, Bitcoin will still be decentralized.

emuLOAD

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Quote from: MiddleFingerToTheMan on September 21, 2017, 02:57:29 PM

Quote from: emuLOAD on September 21, 2017, 02:27:15 PM

if it were to happen, very unlikely, there are a few things Bitcoin could do to protect itself, including banning certain nodes (for the short term). worst case scenario, change algo and roll back. (that would be something acceptable only in case of a monumental disaster).

this said, won't be easy for them to get to 51%. and 51% doesn't automatically make you god.

Banning certain nodes and changing the algo? Who makes those decisions and who has the power to do that? Is it a vote? If the Chinese have 51% then how would the vote get through?

doesn't have to be a vote. developers implement a new algorithm, and publish it. people are suffering from a chinese 51% on the "original" network, they move quicker than lightning to the new client(s), and so will miners. Yes, you'd still have the previous bitcoin as a forked chain, but that would be completely irrelevant as people will use the secured chain primarely.

European Central Bank

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I don't think the chinese really care what the rest of the world gets up to.

They want to isolate their people, not get ijvolved with everyone else.

If the chinese government did try to 51% then it's pretty much the only thing the rest of the bitcoiners could unite on. Theyd be attacking nothing pretty rapidly.

EthereumPY

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so lets the ww3 begin, nuke those fancy hair asian leader at once

Voice-Of-Reason

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Quote from: Ucy on September 21, 2017, 02:33:06 PM

A government declares something illegal, takes over the "illegal" business.. only to continue running it.

Lacks principle. Big Hypocrisy and very immoral

Sounds exactly like something China would definitely do...

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