If they do, when will the FBI announce to sell their alledged 600k BTC stash? - page 2.

super3

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Quote from: Dabs on October 09, 2013, 12:51:35 AM

The auction or bitcoin buy will be off-exchange. It won't happen at Gox or Stamp or any other public exchange. It will be public and most likely you have to be physically there or you have to deposit your dollars at an FBI designated bank.

Obviously, it will not be anonymous.

The most likely scenario is a big entity or group will buy it, or some rich facebook twins or something like that.

This seems like the most likely option. Some large investor will just buy the whole lot in one go. They will then pay the federal government directly.

That aside you know what would be hilarious? If they tried to sell it on Mt.Gox. Good luck getting their money out. Or perhaps they would fix Gox with regulatory pressure to get their USD out.

Dabs

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The auction or bitcoin buy will be off-exchange. It won't happen at Gox or Stamp or any other public exchange. It will be public and most likely you have to be physically there or you have to deposit your dollars at an FBI designated bank.

Obviously, it will not be anonymous.

The most likely scenario is a big entity or group will buy it, or some rich facebook twins or something like that.

Spekulatius

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Quote from: kik1977 on October 08, 2013, 06:09:13 AM

Are you asking:

When will they sell the bitcoins
OR
When the will make the announcement that they (in future) are going to sell those coins?

In the latter case, the announcement has been made already..

*moan* I guess people are still misreading the headline AND my description (not necessarily directed at you kiky).
Of course I ask for the date when they will ANNOUNCE that they intend to sell their 600k BTC stash, not for the date when they will actually sell it.

See, the mere announcment could wreak havoc over the market and deal some hefty blows to any upwards movement there is. And then once again when we near the day of the allegded sell off.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: marcotheminer on October 09, 2013, 12:09:49 AM

Definitely after the trial has been completed.

But, my question is, what exactly does liquidating them mean? Will they be sold at a low price or just all sold at exchange rate price?

Limit order $1 above last price would be the most logical, but this is government we're talking about, they'll pretend to be stupid and crash everything with a market sell and all but destroy the bid side of the book.

marcotheminer

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Definitely after the trial has been completed.

But, my question is, what exactly does liquidating them mean? Will they be sold at a low price or just all sold at exchange rate price?

allthingsluxury

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Quote from: Arros on October 08, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

It could be interesting if they dump 600k BTC in one go.

I don't think this would be good for anyone. Except haters. Cheesy

Arros

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It could be interesting if they dump 600k BTC in one go.

Ekaros

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Hmm, what if they were to send those coins to let's say 26 000 000 different addresses Grin

Or a decade or two more...

clock27

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Itll be after the trial at a auction

klondike_bar

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All that the FBI has is 26,000 BTC and a HDD/computer with DPR's encrypted wallet.

1) the wallet is encrypted, so whatever it contains does not belong to them until they obtain the private key - hacking/decrypting is not a possibility
2) DPR almost certainly used some of his coins to pay for things or trade for USD. It is likely that the wallet holds <300,000 coins at the most
3) It is almost unconceivable that DPR did not create a backup of the private key, or some form of "dead man's switch" that makes it easy/automated for the FBI's precious wallet to drain anywhere else in the bitcoin network without them being able to stop it.

kik1977

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Quote from: wachtwoord on October 08, 2013, 07:31:51 AM

Quote from: kik1977 on October 08, 2013, 06:43:57 AM

moreover part of them (only a few to be honest) belong to honest sellers and they will be probably returned to them when the case is closed.

How? "All drug dealers who we still owe money please come over and pick them up?" Wink

No, rather: "Mr. X, owner of the account xxxx who was selling second hand books on the SR, after a review of your specific account, we have found it wasn't against any Law of this country. Please provide us with a BTC wallet where your bitcoins can be returned to you. Regards. Ps. please excuse us if your funds have been frozen for the last three years. Shit happens."

As I said this would apply to a very few people, probably no more than 0.01% of the accounts on SR. That's what I meant

wachtwoord

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Quote from: kik1977 on October 08, 2013, 06:43:57 AM

moreover part of them (only a few to be honest) belong to honest sellers and they will be probably returned to them when the case is closed.

How? "All drug dealers who we still owe money please come over and pick them up?" Wink

kik1977

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 08, 2013, 06:22:46 AM

I think they would have to wait until after he is found guilty. Even then, I hope the keep it.

There are several possibilities.

The State can usually sell seized stuff before the judgement only if they could seriously depreciate or die. In many instances food or live stocks were seized and they must be sold immediately. Don't think bitcoins can fall in this category.

In 99% of the cases, nothing is done until the judgement. Then, if the suspect is found guilty and the assets confiscated, they can be sold. Please note that it's not a choice, they MUST be sold. Or destroyed in some particular cases. So no, they cannot "keep" them.

But there is also the possibility of being acquitted, in this case the goods seized return to the legitimate owner. That's why the FBI cannot spend them before the judgement.. moreover part of them (only a few to be honest) belong to honest sellers and they will be probably returned to them when the case is closed.

crazy_rabbit

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Quote from: Dabs on October 08, 2013, 06:26:01 AM

One of the bigger bitcoin entities or businesses or foundations will buy them. If it's even available to be spent.

Yeah, I suspect your right. They will probably auction it off.

Dabs

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One of the bigger bitcoin entities or businesses or foundations will buy them. If it's even available to be spent.

crazy_rabbit

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I think they would have to wait until after he is found guilty. Even then, I hope the keep it.

kik1977

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Are you asking:

When will they sell the bitcoins
OR
When the will make the announcement that they (in future) are going to sell those coins?

In the latter case, the announcement has been made already..

ProfMac

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Quote from: repentance on October 07, 2013, 07:18:46 PM

The protective order obligates them to hold them until the civil complaint has been determined. In real terms, that means until it's been established - either by trial or by a plea - that any of the offences which allow confiscation of the assets (including the BTC) have been committed.

The spokesperson said that they would "probably" liquidate the seized BTC. They could, of course, fake the sale and hold onto all of them for use in future law enforcement operations.

If they are sold, it will likely be by public auction and not some method which allows purchasers to remain anonymous.

Perhaps they would like for an exchange to be legal and operational.

repentance

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Quote from: Kao on October 07, 2013, 08:37:01 PM

How would faking the sale work? They'd say they sold them and hold them for operations? That strikes me as questionable compared to just buying new "untainted" BTC to use. This is especially true since BTC is very traceable by design so unless the FBI is willing to launder the money through a mixer, which would be difficult, time consuming, and expensive (since each mixer takes a cut) it would be useless for operations.

Use seized money to buy some of the BTC at auction so that they appear to no longer be under federal control. How are those that care going to establish which buyers were legitimate and which buyers were government agencies - the BTC are going to be transferred to the addresses of the buyers following the auctions so they don't need to send them through a tumbler.

After that first transfer, you really have no idea whether subsequent transfers are the address holder selling their coins, using their BTC to purchase something or transferring the coins to another account they control.

Kao

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Quote from: repentance on October 07, 2013, 07:18:46 PM

The protective order obligates them to hold them until the civil complaint has been determined. In real terms, that means until it's been established - either by trial or by a plea - that any of the offences which allow confiscation of the assets (including the BTC) have been committed.

The spokesperson said that they would "probably" liquidate the seized BTC. They could, of course, fake the sale and hold onto all of them for use in future law enforcement operations.

If they are sold, it will likely be by public auction and not some method which allows purchasers to remain anonymous.

They might have to hold onto them until all the appeals are exhausted, otherwise they could be stuck in a situation of having to pay the cash equivalent (either for the price that they sold it at or the price that they are at when they lose the appeal, although the latter seems less likely).

How would faking the sale work? They'd say they sold them and hold them for operations? That strikes me as questionable compared to just buying new "untainted" BTC to use. This is especially true since BTC is very traceable by design so unless the FBI is willing to launder the money through a mixer, which would be difficult, time consuming, and expensive (since each mixer takes a cut) it would be useless for operations.

I have to agree with you n your last point. They'd go for a discount which would make someone a quick profit since they could, and if they were smart would, immediately turn around and sell them as the market will bear on MtGox.

Topic: If they do, when will the FBI announce to sell their alledged 600k BTC stash? - page 2. (Read 4209 times)