If USA Will Be In The War - Government Can Confiscate All Bitcoins + Blockchain

bitgolden

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Quote from: DanWalker on November 03, 2023, 03:10:27 AM

I know that the US is still a world power in many aspects including the technology sector, but I doubt that they can carry out a 51% attack on blockchain, if they could do that they probably would have did it a long time ago.

As for banning bitcoin, that is even more impossible, the world is becoming increasingly multipolar, not every country is an ally of the US and willing to follow their orders. The United States alone will not be able to do anything about bitcoin, or even with allies involved, they will be unlikely to completely stop bitcoin. There will still be countries that oppose the United States and continue to maintain bitcoin.

I agree, plus USA has a lot of smart people who will stop the politicians from trying something like this, they know that it would not work and they know that it is not going to be easy, we should be aware of the fact that it is going to end up being a little different. I believe that we can't really have some sort of situation that could be a little bit difficult to handle on the long run. I hope that we could get to a point where we can't really benefit any worse, and should be something that could bring some glory to people.

I hope that we can make some changes, and for that to happen we need to arrange a situation that could be a little different compared to everyone else, can't be really all that easy to let governments take our coins. Lets assume I have my money in my wallet, they told me that I need to give it up, what if I don't? They can't take it from me, so it is going to be pretty obvious that they are going to end up with nothing at all.

STT

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Some people have outlined the scenario for a self bailout of the national debt which is to subvert all pension holdings into buying only government debt no other asset. You will still have some value and a return and pension value however your savings would now be keeping the government out of bankruptcy. That is quite probable, they will consider the mass figures not BTC holdings which are not that common still and dont amount to nearly as much as a very common work savings scheme like a normal pension.

JoyMarsha

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Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 10:15:59 AM

Quote from: Faisal2202 on October 15, 2023, 10:11:01 AM

Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

If USA will be in the war in future or any international conflict that can lead to the war - the USA government can confiscate all Bitcoins with whole blockchain for war expenses. There are already 19 millions mined BTC, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently has also $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.

Bro change your dealer, he is selling you expired ice. Cheesy

I mean, really! Do you think 19 million has been mined and all of that BTC exists or is owned by US citizens only? Ok let's agree on the fact that they can confiscate our BTC, but you are saying they will confiscate 19 million and that would be a budget booster for the whole US market. Dear, please think before making a topic, you are aware of the fact that BTC is not totally owned by US citizens or nor under the control of US government.

And the fact on which I agreed before, <-- for that I have only one thing to say is, they cannot confiscate our BTC because they don't own shit out of it, we can send it anywhere in the world without asking them, even if they try to make a warning to US citizens that you have to assist with us and not make any TXs out of the country, they can not stop that, US citizens can easily send or receive BTC from there non-custodial wallets, yeah they might confiscate the BTC exists in custodial wallets (like of CEXs). Or they might shut down the internet in overall country to stop people from sending money. Well, I don't know why I am thinking of it at the first place, I think I should also change my dealer hehe.

If the whole Bitcoin blockchain with main nodes in seized, you probably can not make transfer.

Are you referring to capturing the entire global bitcoin blockchain or just the US one specifically? You know that they won't be able to consider it if it's global as they don't have control over the bitcoin blockchain nodes located throughout the globe. The US government has authority over just domestic matters; it cannot oversee matters in other countries.

Without the US interfering with the recipient's bitcoin transactions, someone in another country is able to send any bitcoin they own "anonymously" to a US citizen. That's what I think that sets bitcoin apart because it can't be controlled by the government."

panganib999

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Quote from: Huppercase on October 15, 2023, 10:00:38 AM

Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

If USA will be in the war in future or any international conflict that can lead to the war - the USA government can confiscate all Bitcoins for war expenses. There are already 21 millions mined BTC, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently has also $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.

War with who in particular? You can't be in a war and just want to ban use of something when it is not affecting you. If USA should be in a war, they might want to sanction the countries that become their enemy and if they want to make payment through the bitcoin, then that's the only when it becomes an eye soar for them to confisticate any bitcoin transactions they found illicit(in their dictionary), which everyone will understand because it is personal but they can confisticate all the bitcoin, they don't have the power to do that.

Furthermore, Bitcoin miners are not situated in a single location which bitcoin decentralized and decentralized means power shared across diffrent areas. If today USA want to stop bitcoin, they can only ban it in USA but they don't have the power to it globally, the world doesn't only revolve around US, other countries have bitcoin in possession but they don't speak about it and if US don't like it, what US feel don't affect them. It might affect the price but it will get stronger with time.

I think OP's referring to the fact that for the most part, during conflicts of this degree every country obliges their constituents to surrender some of their belongings to help fund war efforts as shit doesn't pay when you're in the middle of the red zone. Thing is, despite this I don't think there's a possibility that the US could ever successfully make the people surrender their bitcoins. It's literally encrypted for crying out loud, what are you gonna do, surrender your trezor to them? Lol. Plus I reckon most of these war hungry retards in the upper echelons of the government couldn't operate a fucking smartphone let alone a hardware wallet for that matter, so they'll resort ot tangible goods instead, just as how things have been in the past.

bluebit25

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The fact that they have gone to war, every conflict everywhere has had participation from the United States, financial aid, weapons,... are things that show that this crisis has been and is continuing takes place between the parties.

I remember that the EU and the US had previously placed bans on Russia regarding the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the assets of some parties were confiscated for political reasons, and of course bitcoin could also be confiscated for all kinds of reasons. A coercive way they think is legitimate to control, but that only adds to the conflict. Chaos everywhere is increasing, and finding a safe haven for assets is a way to protect the overall situation that affects the economy and how we make choices individually, collectively, as a country,... to overcome this period. It's not just bitcoin - although its current scale is still small, it still belongs to the asset category, so control can still happen.

so98nn

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Hang on. So what we discussing is if US gets into war then US government is free to sell the bitcoin that they have seized. With whatever rate they sell they will get the ton of money and this can be used in the warfare. Wow, so USA doesn’t want the common peeps to use Bitcoin for daily stuff but they are ready to sell it for the killing and mass murdering.

I am not surprised. Even if they say it’s federal seized money and it will be only sold out in the auctions, then how come they have the rights to restrict the general public from using it.

& hell no, USA can seize bitcoin, USA cant stop it completely. What do you think rest of the world will do about it? Just watch the circus of US government. Lolz.

DanWalker

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 01, 2023, 03:13:33 AM

Quote from: retreat on October 31, 2023, 07:39:45 AM

I don't think that the USA can confiscate all bitcoin assets because bitcoin runs on a decentralized network which does not allow for intervention. As long as the USA does not have access to users' wallets, whatever they try to confiscate Bitcoin assets will not be possible. And what's more, now is the modern era where the government cannot arbitrarily treat people, so if the USA does things arbitrarily it will cause problems for themselves.

Bitcoin, being a digital asset can be moved from one country to other in a matter of few seconds (as long as the internet is there). So a ban that is applicable only in the United States will not work. There are a few other options, and none of them are 100% perfect. The US government can launch a 51% attack on the blockchain, but it will cost them a few tens of billions of USD. Another option is to go for a global ban. But then, not all of the 200+ countries and territories are going to agree with this stupid ban.

I know that the US is still a world power in many aspects including the technology sector, but I doubt that they can carry out a 51% attack on blockchain, if they could do that they probably would have did it a long time ago.

As for banning bitcoin, that is even more impossible, the world is becoming increasingly multipolar, not every country is an ally of the US and willing to follow their orders. The United States alone will not be able to do anything about bitcoin, or even with allies involved, they will be unlikely to completely stop bitcoin. There will still be countries that oppose the United States and continue to maintain bitcoin.

Porfirii

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Quote from: Wapfika on October 19, 2023, 01:27:13 AM

Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

There are already 19 millions mined BTC worldwide, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently also has $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.

The only flaw on this assumption is on what grounds will the US government can confiscate Bitcoin from node owner. Also if ever their government become tyrant then I’m sure they will have problem on how to liquidate that kind of amount without giving a huge impact to the price of Bitcoin in general.

Pretty sure that everyone will early exit if the US Government start seizing and liquidating Bitcoin and other crypto assets. But I’m not really sure how can they possibly do this legally without illegal charges. I’m sure USA will not be committed to become tyrant country just to fund a war of other country.

Well, let's hope that we don't see it (if the third world war started, then many of us would all have much more important things to worry about than our sats), but you're right, and I think that it is important, when you say that if the government became tyrant and seized Bitcoin it would become an almost worthless asset.

goxcraft

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I don't think that would be possible. If we talk only about bitcoin, we all know that it's not owned or controlled by anyone. It's not illegal to have bitcoins. So, I don't see any reason to seize the citizens bitcoins. If the sized coins were tainted or connected with illegal money loundering, stolen funds, or hacked funds, then that would be valid for them to seize. But if you were a law-abiding citizen, you did nothing wrong and owned some bitcoins. Then it's illegal for them to take your bitcoins. It's our hard earned money, not the government's. If they did this, they might break out of a civil war. The only place where they can forcefully seize our assets is CEX. Apart from that, if they tried to, we could just send it around the world with just one click, and they wouldn't be able to take that.

avikz

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Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

Before Israel - Palestine conflict, I did not even consider such a possibilities ( USA is sending a second aircraft carrier to the eastern Mediterranean ).
What if USA will be in the war in future or any international conflict that can lead to the war - USA government can confiscate Bitcoins with USA based blockchain nodes + exchanges + online wallets for war expenses. There are already 19 millions mined BTC worldwide, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently also has $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.
Washington already owns more than $5 billion worth of seized bitcoin - https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2023/06/16/us-government-owns-way-more-bitcoin-than-any-other-countryso-why-arent-they-selling-it/?sh=d18b8d81f32a
List of wars involving the United States - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
Look also here:
- The economics of war. How does this affect us all especially us in crypto?

This conflict between Israel and Palestine can really lead to 3rd world war. So I would not phase out the possibility. But even if US goes to a full fledged war, I do not see an immediate action on the bitcoin holders to be honest. US gets into war without affecting its own citizens. because every political party knows, if US citizens are affected due to their government's actions abroad, they will never come back to power for the next 20 years. So no government will take such risk to seize the bitcoins from the US citizens in the name of a war.

But the US government might do the same in the name of tax collection. So it's better to keep certain things a secret. At least it saves us from the bad times!

Sithara007

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Quote from: retreat on October 31, 2023, 07:39:45 AM

I don't think that the USA can confiscate all bitcoin assets because bitcoin runs on a decentralized network which does not allow for intervention. As long as the USA does not have access to users' wallets, whatever they try to confiscate Bitcoin assets will not be possible. And what's more, now is the modern era where the government cannot arbitrarily treat people, so if the USA does things arbitrarily it will cause problems for themselves.

Bitcoin, being a digital asset can be moved from one country to other in a matter of few seconds (as long as the internet is there). So a ban that is applicable only in the United States will not work. There are a few other options, and none of them are 100% perfect. The US government can launch a 51% attack on the blockchain, but it will cost them a few tens of billions of USD. Another option is to go for a global ban. But then, not all of the 200+ countries and territories are going to agree with this stupid ban.

retreat

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I don't think that the USA can confiscate all bitcoin assets because bitcoin runs on a decentralized network which does not allow for intervention. As long as the USA does not have access to users' wallets, whatever they try to confiscate Bitcoin assets will not be possible. And what's more, now is the modern era where the government cannot arbitrarily treat people, so if the USA does things arbitrarily it will cause problems for themselves.

Promocodeudo

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I don't think that the Government can do this because if it was that easy, they would have done this for a long time, bitcoin is built on a solid system, and this has made it impossible for any entity or organization to have control or total access in the system, currently, there are Bitcoin enthusiast than before, if US start the liquidation of this digital asset that's if they can, there will be problem, I believe there are major investors whose assets are in bitcoin, don't you think this is the reason why those treats and speeches will never hold. As long as people have known what Bitcoin is all about it will continue to grow in publicity because it is an asset.
I don't foresee the Government taking this approach because so many measures are involved, they will be affected in turn, and that's why they always discourage interested citizens gain the majority.

Wapfika

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Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

There are already 19 millions mined BTC worldwide, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently also has $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.

The only flaw on this assumption is on what grounds will the US government can confiscate Bitcoin from node owner. Also if ever their government become tyrant then I’m sure they will have problem on how to liquidate that kind of amount without giving a huge impact to the price of Bitcoin in general.

Pretty sure that everyone will early exit if the US Government start seizing and liquidating Bitcoin and other crypto assets. But I’m not really sure how can they possibly do this legally without illegal charges. I’m sure USA will not be committed to become tyrant country just to fund a war of other country.

Kakmakr

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Yes, this can happen to people ...if they store their Bitcoin (Crypto Currencies) in centralized services. We saw this when Executive Order 6102 required all persons in the USA to deliver gold coins, Gold bullion, and Gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $467 in 2022) per troy ounce. (1933) - Read more about this here ==> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

So, it is very important that you keep control over your own Private keys and that you do not store your coins on ANY centralized services that can be targeted by a government. Wink

jasonjm

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Well, the government can't confiscate individual bitcoins; for that, they should have the private key/ seed phrase of all those addresses, and it is an impossible task. They can only confiscate the BTC holdings that are on exchanges located in their jurisdiction.
As long as you have your BTC in your wallet, no one in the world will be able to confiscate them. This is how decentralization and anonymity work. It is also important not to use an exchange wallet for storing BTC because exchanges can be hacked or bankrupted.
As far as US war expense is concerned, the whole of the crypto market won't be able to cover that.

For reference, over 2 trillion dollars ($300M per day) were spent on the US war in Afghanistan.
(https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/31/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-end-of-the-war-in-afghanistan/#:~:text=After%20more%20than%20%242%20trillion,a%20day%20for%20two%20decades.)

gunhell16

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The only thing the government can seize in such cases are the exchanges that take place on the centralized platform. However, those that are DEX (decentralized exchange) are no longer insured, and if your Bitcoin is in a cold wallet or any hardware wallet, it is not covered by the government.

That is why we must always be vigilant and prepared for unforeseen chances, so that if something occurs to centralized platforms, we are aware and prepared in case the government takes such a measure.

livingfree

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on October 18, 2023, 05:00:17 PM

This applies to every government in the world. Every country might go to war at some point in the future and might attempt to start seizing coins if things will get dire for the war economy. If people will voluntarily or involuntarily let their government know how many coins they own, the government might come to them to confiscate the coins, and even if they attempt to hide the coins, the coins or the liquidated funds will become harder to use legally. So it's not like crypto is a perfect loophole for avoiding funds seizure.

I agree, that's what they will do if they're in the dire need for more funds.

Every citizen will be pushed with money that they've got and will be confiscated and if it's still not enough, all they need to do is to secure and be more strict with where Bitcoins can be exchanged into fiat.

They'll go with these exchanges and have the information of any registered user on them and that's how they're going to get their intel, and in no time they'll be at the door steps knocking it and you'll have no way of denying it that you still own some.

hatshepsut93

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This applies to every government in the world. Every country might go to war at some point in the future and might attempt to start seizing coins if things will get dire for the war economy. If people will voluntarily or involuntarily let their government know how many coins they own, the government might come to them to confiscate the coins, and even if they attempt to hide the coins, the coins or the liquidated funds will become harder to use legally. So it's not like crypto is a perfect loophole for avoiding funds seizure.

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Quote from: Joeyp on October 15, 2023, 09:47:09 AM

Before Israel - Palestine conflict, I did not even consider such a possibilities ( USA is sending a second aircraft carrier to the eastern Mediterranean ).
What if USA will be in the war in future or any international conflict that can lead to the war - USA government can confiscate Bitcoins with USA based blockchain nodes + exchanges + online wallets for war expenses. There are already 19 millions mined BTC worldwide, so this can be real war budget booster for weapons and other expenses. USA currently also has $33.54 trillion in federal debt, so if there are such international conflict, mined Bitcoins seizing for war budget can be really on the White House decision table.
Washington already owns more than $5 billion worth of seized bitcoin - https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2023/06/16/us-government-owns-way-more-bitcoin-than-any-other-countryso-why-arent-they-selling-it/?sh=d18b8d81f32a
List of wars involving the United States - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
Look also here:
- The economics of war. How does this affect us all especially us in crypto?

I agree that the US can probably do that theoretically but it's very unlikely they're actually going to do that. Blockchain cannot be seized and confiscated but confiscating Bitcoins will lead to a huge dump, which most probably will lead to their own BTC reserves losing value and investors leaving Bitcoin due to a massive loss of trust.

Topic: If USA Will Be In The War - Government Can Confiscate All Bitcoins + Blockchain (Read 374 times)