Why would banks give two shits about Bitcoin with its baby market cap and low daily transaction volume? There are single businesses with 50-60 times the market cap that Bitcoin has held steady at for 3 1/2 years.
Company Caps Market Cap
($in billions)
Apple Inc 613.69
Alphabet Inc 551.94
Microsoft Corporation 449.94
Amazon.com Inc. 399.01
Facebook Inc 369.70
Exxon Mobil Corp 360.95
Berkshire Hathaway Inc. 354.66
Johnson & Johnson 324.89
General Electric Co 262.30
JPMorgan Chase & Co 245.15
AT&T Inc 240.60
Procter & Gamble Co. 238.16
Wells Fargo & Co. 227.96
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. 214.55
Verizon Communications Inc 204.87
Pfizer Inc 204.11
Visa Inc 196.73
Chevron Corporation 192.76
Berkshire Hathaway Subsidiaries 184.51
.
.
.
.
.............
Bitcoin 10
LOL
Topic: If you believe banks will work with Bitcoin, you're delusional - page 5. (Read 4107 times)
October 07, 2016, 09:44:19 AM
October 07, 2016, 09:14:44 AM
In the world of bitcoin, people do not need banks.
So worrying about banks is pointless.
If bitcoin ever replaces USD, there won't be any banks around. Or... they will be around but they won't do what they are doing now as business. Their business model will change dramatically.
So worrying about banks is pointless.
If bitcoin ever replaces USD, there won't be any banks around. Or... they will be around but they won't do what they are doing now as business. Their business model will change dramatically.
October 07, 2016, 09:03:14 AM
there are 3 different things happening that you should know the difference about before saying it will or will not happen:
1) banks creating their own blockchain using bitcoin (blockchain) technology.
2) banks adapting their systems with bitcoin and use bitcoin instead of fiat or instead keep the people's wallets safe and encrypted in their vault.
3) banks start accepting bitcoin just like fiat and as others have mentioned something like what coinbase is doing.
i believe all of the above can happen and each of them will be a different service giving the banks a different type of revenue because they receive money for the service they offer.
1) banks creating their own blockchain using bitcoin (blockchain) technology.
2) banks adapting their systems with bitcoin and use bitcoin instead of fiat or instead keep the people's wallets safe and encrypted in their vault.
3) banks start accepting bitcoin just like fiat and as others have mentioned something like what coinbase is doing.
i believe all of the above can happen and each of them will be a different service giving the banks a different type of revenue because they receive money for the service they offer.
October 07, 2016, 08:14:56 AM
Banks hold your dollars in their bank accounts. They then turn around and leverage your dollars in their account by 10 times to issue loans to people where they get their main revenue.
If people are holding their funds in bitcoins and only using banks as a transaction medium the bank is not making much money.
October 07, 2016, 08:09:59 AM
These banks always want something they can have total control over, the way they went about intranet, but Bitcoin offers transparency and will ensure accountability, this will expose their year long scam since they don't want to be caught they will rather develop their own blockchain instead
October 07, 2016, 08:09:28 AM
Banks will never support Bitcoins, BUT, banks will in time develop their own cryptocurrencies.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
Banks will only create centralized blockchains. They will fail.
I'm thinking exactly the same. Banks have nothing to gain from Bitcoin. Bitcoin is simply destroying their main business and bereaving them of their power as actors in the fiat money Ponzi scheme. However they still haven't realized it and think they are smarter and offering a more attractive solution by marketing their own centrally controlled altcoins.
Backing a privately controlled altcoin is totally irrelevant and doesn't render it a better alternative. Especially not if "backing" is done with fiat currencies. Fiat is junk money, created from debt issuance and backed by nothing except loose references to faith in god...
ya.ya.yo!
October 07, 2016, 08:08:02 AM
I see this often "banks should start working with Bitcoin users since that's where things are headed, why not cooperate?".
If you think your bank is going to keep your bitcoins in some account then you can use your debit card to convert to dollars at the point of sale then you don't really understand the main revenue of banks.
Banks hold your dollars in their bank accounts. They then turn around and leverage your dollars in their account by 10 times to issue loans to people where they get their main revenue.
If people are holding their funds in bitcoins and only using banks as a transaction medium the bank is not making much money.
Don't expect banks to embrace Bitcoin. The reason they're all creating their own "blockchains" is so they can make it so that they can hold your funds and leverage it.
Every central bank warning about Bitcoin is another central bank realizing that they are going to lose if people start using Bitcoin.
If you were from philippines you will know that our bitcoin wallet based on our country are now partnered on some banks that where they can deposit our sells of bitcoin into cash that fash we only need to wait atleast 24 hours to do there jobs bitcoin + banks are amazing right now i don\t expect that in some bitcoin wallets are going to happen this. If you think your bank is going to keep your bitcoins in some account then you can use your debit card to convert to dollars at the point of sale then you don't really understand the main revenue of banks.
Banks hold your dollars in their bank accounts. They then turn around and leverage your dollars in their account by 10 times to issue loans to people where they get their main revenue.
If people are holding their funds in bitcoins and only using banks as a transaction medium the bank is not making much money.
Don't expect banks to embrace Bitcoin. The reason they're all creating their own "blockchains" is so they can make it so that they can hold your funds and leverage it.
Every central bank warning about Bitcoin is another central bank realizing that they are going to lose if people start using Bitcoin.
October 07, 2016, 08:03:00 AM
the way i see things going.
banks will (like the zimbabwe dollar) hyper inflate the mysql database of current fiat in commercial banks. thus turning the several trillion in debt into being the value of a loaf of bread.
at the same time they will implement the IMF reserve(hyperledger) with a BRICS sidechain and an AMERO sidechain and then having sub sidechains below that for each country that way:
every US dollar gets swapped for a USCoin under the umbrella of amero.
every mexican peso gets swapped for a Mexicoin under the umbrella of amero
and so on..
every Chinese yuan gets swapped for a Chinacoin under the umbrella of BRICS
every Russian ruble gets swapped for a RUScoin under the umbrella of BRICS
and so on..
making it far easier to make old fiat hyper inflate to make $XXtrillion debt valued at a price of bread to pay off government debt easily, because old fiat becomes useless to citizens.
this results in commercial banks losing out because their "bonds" which promise $XXtrillion in the future wont be a future income valuation of say 7trill loaves of bread. but just few loaves of bread.
then the 'government' banks.. bank of england, bank of india, deutsche bank will have all the citizens accounts on the new hyper ledger, all with no government debt to repay
bitcoin is not a threat, infact banks on the hyper ledger can profit from the trades. in and out of the coins. however if you think that a no control open currency will destroy the IMF government currencies(legal tenders). think again. they already have a plan and laws to keep their 'government' currencies(legal tenders) in circulation.
minimum wage measured in legal tender, taxes measured in legal tender, court fines measured in legal tender. etc etc
banks will (like the zimbabwe dollar) hyper inflate the mysql database of current fiat in commercial banks. thus turning the several trillion in debt into being the value of a loaf of bread.
at the same time they will implement the IMF reserve(hyperledger) with a BRICS sidechain and an AMERO sidechain and then having sub sidechains below that for each country that way:
every US dollar gets swapped for a USCoin under the umbrella of amero.
every mexican peso gets swapped for a Mexicoin under the umbrella of amero
and so on..
every Chinese yuan gets swapped for a Chinacoin under the umbrella of BRICS
every Russian ruble gets swapped for a RUScoin under the umbrella of BRICS
and so on..
making it far easier to make old fiat hyper inflate to make $XXtrillion debt valued at a price of bread to pay off government debt easily, because old fiat becomes useless to citizens.
this results in commercial banks losing out because their "bonds" which promise $XXtrillion in the future wont be a future income valuation of say 7trill loaves of bread. but just few loaves of bread.
then the 'government' banks.. bank of england, bank of india, deutsche bank will have all the citizens accounts on the new hyper ledger, all with no government debt to repay
bitcoin is not a threat, infact banks on the hyper ledger can profit from the trades. in and out of the coins. however if you think that a no control open currency will destroy the IMF government currencies(legal tenders). think again. they already have a plan and laws to keep their 'government' currencies(legal tenders) in circulation.
minimum wage measured in legal tender, taxes measured in legal tender, court fines measured in legal tender. etc etc
October 07, 2016, 07:30:34 AM
It is funny that we sometimes see some people get pumped and all happy when there is news that a bank might start to use and adopt Bitcoin. The main reason they are happy is they think that the price will rise and increase the value of their stash. What they fail to realize is banks do not need Bitcoin or a blockchain. What they need is a database.
October 07, 2016, 07:13:46 AM
I see this often "banks should start working with Bitcoin users since that's where things are headed, why not cooperate?".
If you think your bank is going to keep your bitcoins in some account then you can use your debit card to convert to dollars at the point of sale then you don't really understand the main revenue of banks.
Banks hold your dollars in their bank accounts. They then turn around and leverage your dollars in their account by 10 times to issue loans to people where they get their main revenue.
If people are holding their funds in bitcoins and only using banks as a transaction medium the bank is not making much money.
Don't expect banks to embrace Bitcoin. The reason they're all creating their own "blockchains" is so they can make it so that they can hold your funds and leverage it.
Every central bank warning about Bitcoin is another central bank realizing that they are going to lose if people start using Bitcoin.
If you think your bank is going to keep your bitcoins in some account then you can use your debit card to convert to dollars at the point of sale then you don't really understand the main revenue of banks.
Banks hold your dollars in their bank accounts. They then turn around and leverage your dollars in their account by 10 times to issue loans to people where they get their main revenue.
If people are holding their funds in bitcoins and only using banks as a transaction medium the bank is not making much money.
Don't expect banks to embrace Bitcoin. The reason they're all creating their own "blockchains" is so they can make it so that they can hold your funds and leverage it.
Every central bank warning about Bitcoin is another central bank realizing that they are going to lose if people start using Bitcoin.
I don`t believe that banks will ever embrace bitcoin.
The banks can only destroy bitcoin,and they will destroy it,if bitcoin becomes big enough.
Why are you making this thread?
I don`t see people who want banks to accept btc.
October 07, 2016, 06:39:09 AM
Counter question.
What if, when Bitcoin is getting this popular and adapted by people so that banks and regulators do not have an other choice to work with Bitcoin?
What if, when Bitcoin is getting this popular and adapted by people so that banks and regulators do not have an other choice to work with Bitcoin?
it won't come that far. i am quite sure that governments will step into action to make further growth of bitcoin impossible by implementing all kinds of ridiculous policies. that's of course assuming bitcoin is growing too large.
October 07, 2016, 05:54:20 AM
banks are already involved.
but although elwars OP mentioned leveraging (fractional reserve) upto 10 times, as being the issue. its not.. elwar forgets one fundamental flaw
for every trade there is a buyer and a seller
say you buy bitcoin using fiat.. that fiat is not burnt and taken out of circulation.
instead its handed to the person that had bitcoin and wants fiat.
thus the amount of fiat does not decrease. the only thing that changes is who the account holder is of said fiat.
EG
Bank has $1bill total(dumb example), spread over accounts for persons A,B,C,D,E (all having $200m each) and accounts for persons F,G,H,I,J have $0
A-E want to buy bitcoin. F-J want to sell bitcoin.. funds move between account holders.. but the bank still ends up with/has $1bill total and nothing has changed for the bank.
yes a bank branch in Mississippi may end up with less total than bank branch in NYC. but from the HQ point of view its still $1bill.
meaning that HQ can still then 'create' $10bill in 'credit'(mortgages), which yes the HQ can refuse to let the Mississippi process mortgages due to internal metrics, and allow NYC bank to increase mortgages but from the point of view from the top. its still has the same total of mortgage creations.
i say this because banks find it hard to get beyond the $1bill(dumb example) cap of real(zero-debt) balance. because fiat is just a cauldron being stirred of the same money going in circles.
but by offering exchange services where they take a 1% cut. can make that $1bill cap grow, which in turn makes their fractional reserve allowance grow.
the issue is not the fear of bitcoin destroying fiat.
the issue is the local bank branches having laws to only play with fiat.
this is why people cannot play the stock market from a bank branch teller desk or an ATM. but...
the HQ has subsidiaries who can play with exchanges to make their small % often. and customers can apply to these subsidiaries to 'invest'/exchange.
and now my point.
bank customers will not be able to walk upto a conventional ATM or enter a conventional bank branch and swap fiat for bitcoin due to many laws concerning legal tender. (not the worry of Fractional Reserve)
but those banks subsidiaries will have 'services' to allow swaps, just like bank customers CAN'T trade shares on an ATM or bank branch but can contact the subsidiary to trade shares via the brokerage subsidiary.
if you dont believe me that banks are already involved. check out hyper ledger.
R3, (banking group linked to classic) DigitalAssetHoldings(banking group linked to blockstream/core) creating their new international fund network with all the side chains, etc.
proof:
hyperledger ties R3 and DAH - http://www.coindesk.com/hyperledger-technical-steering-committee/
DAH for instance building the blockchain for bank of england, bank of india and deutsche bank.(google RTGS blockchain digital asset holdings)
the only issue is that bitcoin will not be the international monetary fund (reserve currency) where all 'hyper ledgers' circle around bitcoin. instead bitcoin will just be a small side 'asset' that banks subsidiaries(hyperledger) would allow swaps with to take a middleman % cut
but although elwars OP mentioned leveraging (fractional reserve) upto 10 times, as being the issue. its not.. elwar forgets one fundamental flaw
for every trade there is a buyer and a seller
say you buy bitcoin using fiat.. that fiat is not burnt and taken out of circulation.
instead its handed to the person that had bitcoin and wants fiat.
thus the amount of fiat does not decrease. the only thing that changes is who the account holder is of said fiat.
EG
Bank has $1bill total(dumb example), spread over accounts for persons A,B,C,D,E (all having $200m each) and accounts for persons F,G,H,I,J have $0
A-E want to buy bitcoin. F-J want to sell bitcoin.. funds move between account holders.. but the bank still ends up with/has $1bill total and nothing has changed for the bank.
yes a bank branch in Mississippi may end up with less total than bank branch in NYC. but from the HQ point of view its still $1bill.
meaning that HQ can still then 'create' $10bill in 'credit'(mortgages), which yes the HQ can refuse to let the Mississippi process mortgages due to internal metrics, and allow NYC bank to increase mortgages but from the point of view from the top. its still has the same total of mortgage creations.
i say this because banks find it hard to get beyond the $1bill(dumb example) cap of real(zero-debt) balance. because fiat is just a cauldron being stirred of the same money going in circles.
but by offering exchange services where they take a 1% cut. can make that $1bill cap grow, which in turn makes their fractional reserve allowance grow.
the issue is not the fear of bitcoin destroying fiat.
the issue is the local bank branches having laws to only play with fiat.
this is why people cannot play the stock market from a bank branch teller desk or an ATM. but...
the HQ has subsidiaries who can play with exchanges to make their small % often. and customers can apply to these subsidiaries to 'invest'/exchange.
and now my point.
bank customers will not be able to walk upto a conventional ATM or enter a conventional bank branch and swap fiat for bitcoin due to many laws concerning legal tender. (not the worry of Fractional Reserve)
but those banks subsidiaries will have 'services' to allow swaps, just like bank customers CAN'T trade shares on an ATM or bank branch but can contact the subsidiary to trade shares via the brokerage subsidiary.
if you dont believe me that banks are already involved. check out hyper ledger.
R3, (banking group linked to classic) DigitalAssetHoldings(banking group linked to blockstream/core) creating their new international fund network with all the side chains, etc.
proof:
hyperledger ties R3 and DAH - http://www.coindesk.com/hyperledger-technical-steering-committee/
DAH for instance building the blockchain for bank of england, bank of india and deutsche bank.(google RTGS blockchain digital asset holdings)
the only issue is that bitcoin will not be the international monetary fund (reserve currency) where all 'hyper ledgers' circle around bitcoin. instead bitcoin will just be a small side 'asset' that banks subsidiaries(hyperledger) would allow swaps with to take a middleman % cut
October 07, 2016, 05:39:11 AM
Counter question.
What if, when Bitcoin is getting this popular and adapted by people so that banks and regulators do not have an other choice to work with Bitcoin?
What if, when Bitcoin is getting this popular and adapted by people so that banks and regulators do not have an other choice to work with Bitcoin?
October 07, 2016, 05:21:15 AM
Agree with you Elwar. The only reason banks would want to incorporate bitcoin into their systems is so they could stunt our growth & benefit from it by taking high interest from us.
It's a no thanks from me.
It's a no thanks from me.
October 07, 2016, 05:17:24 AM
True, it is is impossible that the bank will cooperate with bitcoin. That will not happen because the system between banks and bitcoin are very different, so it is not suitable to put together. Banks will always go ahead with the system itself, rather than by adopting any system like bitcoin.
October 07, 2016, 05:02:21 AM
Banks will never support Bitcoins, BUT, banks will in time develop their own cryptocurrencies.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
Banks will only create centralized blockchains. They will fail.
Banks will never support Bitcoins, BUT, banks will in time develop their own cryptocurrencies.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
Imagine Bank of England making it's own crypto currency, and BACKING it up with sterling pounds. Then you will see the bitcoin prize go to 0.
I totally agree with you on this.If Banks adopt bitcoin, it would be a suicidal attempt for them.Bitcoin and Banks are opposite to each other.Bank adopting bitcoin is like Google displaying Yahoo search results
Then get ready suicide bro. Banking in private will adopt the bitcoin soon and Slowly will start accepting in the future. Recently there is news about citi bank with bitcoin, Please refer the link news. http://www.coindesk.com/citi-bitcoin-banks-remittances-wont-disrupt/
I see no reason why banks will not work with bitcoin? It can be their destination for investment as they can reap a good amount of benefits from bitcoin compared to the traditional investment.
But it may seem problematic for them to start with something which doesn't have any governing body. I guess that is the reason, they may not get the approval from the central bank. But if they do, then we will see bitcoin to reach new heights every single days.
But it may seem problematic for them to start with something which doesn't have any governing body. I guess that is the reason, they may not get the approval from the central bank. But if they do, then we will see bitcoin to reach new heights every single days.
Coinbase is a prime example or a bitcoin bank. They're found so well, and they don't even pay interest!
We will always have fake Banks like these, just put up with them.
We will always have fake Banks like these, just put up with them.
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