The thing is that Bitcoin has an entire economy around it and has provided countless people with employment so I don't think it is fair to look at it like some sort of pyramid scheme that requires more and more people to keep piling in.
To me, to say it is unethical to profit from Bitcoin would be the same as saying it is unethical to profit off of gold or real estate.
Topic: I'm having some doubts about whether it's ethical to make money off of Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 4548 times)
June 11, 2014, 07:07:44 AM
June 11, 2014, 06:46:00 AM
You mean like a ponzi or pyramid scheme? Supply and demand drives the price. If all buy and sell stopped at one point in time the price will remain frozen. But if all started selling at one time, the price plummets. The rawest form of supply/demand economics there is. Are there winners and losers? Of course, depending on how you define "winning" and "losing".
i think his main concern for bitcoin is that it is neither a physical object and isn't backed by anything tangible or real.
can't we say the same about buying stock though?
And gold. What would be the realistic price of gold if it was valued only by it's "tangible worth" ( jewelry and electronics) ?
Dont forget to consider the cost for mining the gold, somewhere between $600 - $700 an oz.
Add in labor to make the jewellery etc.
June 11, 2014, 06:19:10 AM
Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
You are just spreading FUD about bitcoin.
You assume that bitcoin has zero underlying value which is incorrect.
What is with all the fud stuff lately? Constant ghash.io and "this block is huge so it must be fraud" threads are getting kind of old.
It isn't just lately! ;-) Bitcoin has been a "bubble" for more than 4 years now, bitcoin has been a "ponzi-scheme" and a "pyramid" with "no benefits" too. There has been the "threat of a 51% attack" since fall 2010 (at least) - Slush was in the ghash spot years ago too. Some is FUD, some is just people not understanding the technology's benefits.
June 11, 2014, 06:18:14 AM
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people.
Please sell everything before it is too late. June 11, 2014, 06:04:17 AM
The world needs money. We use it as markers of value.
All money used these days is just created out of thin air. It wasn't like that before, we used gold, but not now.
The problem your having is that you are use to money being created by a government and backed by a government and enforced by a government.
It is very strange for anyone in the world to think of a unit of value that wasn't created this way. So if the government isn't involved it seems like a ponzi.
Actually, governments cash is a ponzi. They print more and more and when the is ruined, they just make a new currency and start over. This has happened time and time again in country after country.
Bitcoin is regulated by math and science and is produced in a way and at a rate so that it will hold its value.
It also happens to be one of the cheapest and quickest ways to send value anywhere in the world. (Although NXT and NEM will even be cheaper, and faster, and easier soon)
So it seems like a ponzi because ponzies have traditionally come out of nowhere and not been back by the government.
This is definitely not a ponzi. It is backed by you and me and everyone that believes in bitcoin. It seems taboo to make our own currency and not use the once forced upon us by government, but it is our right and actually to our benefit.
All money used these days is just created out of thin air. It wasn't like that before, we used gold, but not now.
The problem your having is that you are use to money being created by a government and backed by a government and enforced by a government.
It is very strange for anyone in the world to think of a unit of value that wasn't created this way. So if the government isn't involved it seems like a ponzi.
Actually, governments cash is a ponzi. They print more and more and when the is ruined, they just make a new currency and start over. This has happened time and time again in country after country.
Bitcoin is regulated by math and science and is produced in a way and at a rate so that it will hold its value.
It also happens to be one of the cheapest and quickest ways to send value anywhere in the world. (Although NXT and NEM will even be cheaper, and faster, and easier soon)
So it seems like a ponzi because ponzies have traditionally come out of nowhere and not been back by the government.
This is definitely not a ponzi. It is backed by you and me and everyone that believes in bitcoin. It seems taboo to make our own currency and not use the once forced upon us by government, but it is our right and actually to our benefit.
June 11, 2014, 04:01:27 AM
Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
You are just spreading FUD about bitcoin.
You assume that bitcoin has zero underlying value which is incorrect.
What is with all the fud stuff lately? Constant ghash.io and "this block is huge so it must be fraud" threads are getting kind of old.
June 10, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
You are just spreading FUD about bitcoin.
You assume that bitcoin has zero underlying value which is incorrect.
June 06, 2014, 05:32:14 PM
The most unethical thing I can think of is printing money out of thin air and use those money to buy and own assets. That is pure robbery, comparing to that, bitcoin's earning is extremely ethical
QFT. An ethical transaction means both sides gain value. There is no value exchange when you can just conjure up money by devaluing the supply.
June 06, 2014, 05:17:17 PM
The most unethical thing I can think of is printing money out of thin air and use those money to buy and own assets. That is pure robbery, comparing to that, bitcoin's earning is extremely ethical
June 06, 2014, 02:47:57 PM
These things have been thought about for a long time now. They are good questions to ask, but if you look you will find some thoughtful answers that may assuage your fears.
I believe in bitcoin because it is the fastest, safest, and cheapest way to pay anyone anywhere. That is huge!
I believe in bitcoin because it is the fastest, safest, and cheapest way to pay anyone anywhere. That is huge!
I think that sums it all...
June 06, 2014, 01:22:17 AM
Glad you have a conscious conscience. You ask a very important question. There are a lot of younger folks here that are coming into huge amounts of wealth. Consider using your new found wealth to make the world a better place. This does not mean giving the wealth away, but by being a philanthropist that ties responsibility to the use of funds.
FTFY.
Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.
Competition is always going to be prevalent so long as another competing lifeform exists that can influence the same 'area' as yourself. As I've said, I wouldn't get too worried about this - have enough to support yourself before you start worrying about helping others, there are people out there who would silence their morality for a quick buck.
I send an occasional donation to Sean's Outpost. Not a lot as I don't have a lot but I enjoy the thought that a homeless person might get a meal and a warm bed for a night because of me.
June 06, 2014, 01:19:41 AM
Glad you have a conscious conscience. You ask a very important question. There are a lot of younger folks here that are coming into huge amounts of wealth. Consider using your new found wealth to make the world a better place. This does not mean giving the wealth away, but by being a philanthropist that ties responsibility to the use of funds.
FTFY.
Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.
Competition is always going to be prevalent so long as another competing lifeform exists that can influence the same 'area' as yourself. As I've said, I wouldn't get too worried about this - have enough to support yourself before you start worrying about helping others, there are people out there who would silence their morality for a quick buck.
June 06, 2014, 01:13:30 AM
Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.
Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.
Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.
Glad you have a conscious. You ask a very important question. There are a lot of younger folks here that are coming into huge amounts of wealth. Consider using your new found wealth to make the world a better place. This does not mean giving the wealth away, but by being a philanthropist that ties responsibility to the use of funds.
June 06, 2014, 12:30:02 AM
Bitcoin (and decentralized crypto currencies in general) seem like a logical, natural response to the overregulation and corporatization of currency in most, if not all, of the world. When laissez faire capitalism combined with the corporate bottom line develop a fiat system into a machine for profiting from and monitoring of people's transactions, then bitcoin seems like THE ethical response.
If you happen to profit from buying into this system along the way, I don't see the problem. Plus, nobody is stopping you from donating a portion of your profit to benefit others. I already saw someone's address on this thread offering to help with that.
June 05, 2014, 10:14:12 PM
so now the OP realises making money is bad. he should just steal what he wants and hurt who he wants, just to survive. as long as he never makes any money.
"The measure of the state’s success is that the word anarchy frightens people, while the word state does not. We are like those African slaves who believe that their master is their benefactor, or those Russians who still believe that Stalin was their guardian."-Joseph Sobran
June 05, 2014, 09:58:29 PM
Buying anything is risky. Even holding dollars is a losing proposition. People seem to think risk is somehow unique to bit coin.
On a broader thesis, life itself is risky. Anything you do has inherent risk, its just whether the risk justifies the reward.
Back on topic, I don't see how this is any different from making money on the forex market. For you to make money, some poor sod will have his currency devaluated compared to yours. It's just a fact of life, you might as well try and be sad about the fact that the world is inherently unfair. Sure, you try and do your bit, but you can hardly expect to change the whole world.
Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.
Maybe the OP should consider donating some money to charity if he profited a lot off of bitcoin. That'll help clear your conscience. Although I don't really see anything inherently wrong with buying and selling BTC.
The official address for guilt donations is: 1DubEinemhC3usjotuFv9dqFE5VWvB6sEx
June 05, 2014, 09:56:53 PM
Buying anything is risky. Even holding dollars is a losing proposition. People seem to think risk is somehow unique to bit coin.
On a broader thesis, life itself is risky. Anything you do has inherent risk, its just whether the risk justifies the reward.
Back on topic, I don't see how this is any different from making money on the forex market. For you to make money, some poor sod will have his currency devaluated compared to yours. It's just a fact of life, you might as well try and be sad about the fact that the world is inherently unfair. Sure, you try and do your bit, but you can hardly expect to change the whole world.
Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.
Maybe the OP should consider donating some money to charity if he profited a lot off of bitcoin. That'll help clear your conscience. Although I don't really see anything inherently wrong with buying and selling BTC.
June 05, 2014, 09:53:51 PM
the OP should not be a retailer with the mindset he has
after all, buying tins of baked bans and selling them for profit is bad (pyramid)
the OP should not be a employee with the mindset he has
after all, using your muscles or brain to get money is bad
the OP should not be a manufacturer with the mindset he has
after all, making products and selling them for profit is bad (pyramid)
the OP should not be on government benefits with the mindset he has
after all, not working, but getting money is bad (ponzi)
the OP should not have family to support him with the mindset he has
after all, relying on others to give you money is bad (ponzi)
so now the OP realises making money is bad. he should just steal what he wants and hurt who he wants, just to survive. as long as he never makes any money.
[Sarcasm Level: [lllllllllllllll] 99.8%]
after all, buying tins of baked bans and selling them for profit is bad (pyramid)
the OP should not be a employee with the mindset he has
after all, using your muscles or brain to get money is bad
the OP should not be a manufacturer with the mindset he has
after all, making products and selling them for profit is bad (pyramid)
the OP should not be on government benefits with the mindset he has
after all, not working, but getting money is bad (ponzi)
the OP should not have family to support him with the mindset he has
after all, relying on others to give you money is bad (ponzi)
so now the OP realises making money is bad. he should just steal what he wants and hurt who he wants, just to survive. as long as he never makes any money.
[Sarcasm Level: [lllllllllllllll] 99.8%]
June 05, 2014, 09:52:22 PM
Buying anything is risky. Even holding dollars is a losing proposition. People seem to think risk is somehow unique to bit coin.
On a broader thesis, life itself is risky. Anything you do has inherent risk, its just whether the risk justifies the reward.
Back on topic, I don't see how this is any different from making money on the forex market. For you to make money, some poor sod will have his currency devaluated compared to yours. It's just a fact of life, you might as well try and be sad about the fact that the world is inherently unfair. Sure, you try and do your bit, but you can hardly expect to change the whole world.
Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.
June 05, 2014, 09:35:27 PM
Buying anything is risky. Even holding dollars is a losing proposition. People seem to think risk is somehow unique to bit coin.
On a broader thesis, life itself is risky. Anything you do has inherent risk, its just whether the risk justifies the reward.
Back on topic, I don't see how this is any different from making money on the forex market. For you to make money, some poor sod will have his currency devaluated compared to yours. It's just a fact of life, you might as well try and be sad about the fact that the world is inherently unfair. Sure, you try and do your bit, but you can hardly expect to change the whole world.
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