Topic: I'm mining at a loss (Read 2042 times)

It has nothing common with mining, however once I was able to profit a lot because I couldn't exchange coins (don't had access on internet and got late payment). This was when bitcoin's price begin to rise from 10K to 16K and from this, 60% is a solid profit.
And now what's about mining, if you believe that coin will rise, you have to continue mining and try your best and pay electricity bills from your pocket but I know some people who can't think much and mine less profitable coin with that hope while they can mine most profitable coin and then exchange it and buy their beloved coin, please don't do the same.

At this point in time, I've stopped mining on less profitable cards (pre-Polaris cards) completely, as electrical costs have climbed higher than mining revenue or I'm just breaking even, and I suggest everyone who hasn't already sold to do so.

The way things are right now, it's easy to buy Bitcoin, even without verification, and there's no reason to mine at a loss at all. Most older cards are still selling for a decent price as of right now, and it really isn't a bad time to sell at all. Older-generation cards can only really fall in prices right now.

Merited that guy above too.

I have already commented earlier that those people who just continue to proceed even they do know that they are completely unprofitable are considered to be dumb and im even surprised that there are still people above who do say on some scenarios that mining even at loss.

...so many insane people on bitcointalk these days.


Merited! You saved my time! I was gonna write something similar but in a *very* harsh manner.

Business run at a loss are for completely different reasons. You're comparing apples to typewriters. If you want to compare it that way it's equivalent to an oil company investing money into expensive equipment and drilling rights do drill oil at a cost of $100 per barrel hoping to be able to sell it for a profit later when they instead could just directly buy the oil at $75 a barrel and hold. Nobody is saying it's not possible for it to become profitable in the future but you guys can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that it's literally the same thing as saying "I want some eth to sell later at a profit. I see the price is $200 right now but i'd rather pay $250 to mine it". This topic has been beat so far into to the ground it's unbelievable. If anyone has read through this whole thread and still considers it wise to mine at a loss i'm really sorry to say because I don't like calling people dumb, but you may want to consider whether it's possible you might be over estimating your own mental capacity. I'm signing off this thread. Cheers!

I have a friend that sometimes operates at a loss but he said its part of doing business.  Lots of businesses start out unprofitable for a long time, look at how Amazon started.  They were unprofitable for many years.

now mine
amd gpu- monero
nvidia gpu- btx- btg- raven

Most miners I know went from ETH to other algos. Only few of them turned off the cards - those ones loosing money. Anyone mining into the red should consider to turn their rig off for a while. It simply doesn't makes sense.

Mining of the ETH began in the 3rd quarter of 2015. In 2016, the profit reached up to 5 dollars from one video card (RX 390) per day.
It was a very good time. The decline in mining was in 2014 and early 2015. At the beginning of 2016, when I started mining, the hashrate was near 0.6 TX.
1 video card gave about 3 coins per day.

You're doing fine! But I could not stand it. I sold the equipment. I decided to try masternodes and DPOS. This also very interesting!

ETH price are sinking like Titanic, I think the mining is dying, and only will be profitable again when the many farms and miners will get out of the game and the diff will be back to ~2015-2016 levels.
 

Basically that would make the most sense.

Stop mining so difficulty decreases and more miners make money. Instead of wasting power just buy the coin instead and help the price.

However most people here are for the profits and not to "support the technology or network".

That's why services like Nicehash are so popular because people don't want ETH or ETC or ZEC they just want the BTC to sell it for USD

lol if you stop to mine difficulty decreas and many miners will be happy!!!! if you mine loss stop to do it!!!you are killing mining world!!!! we need low difficulty not high difficulty esp now that market is at the bottom!!!!

https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate

1 month ago, the hashrate of the ETH was 25 TX more.
Antminer E3 is no longer in demand.

People really turn off the farms or run around in other algorithms.
Only those miners who have cheap electricity will remain.

Personally, I hope for a small growth and return of profit to $ 1 per card per day.

No real miner mines at a loss for a long period. The only reason that could justify such action is if you cant buy the coin direcly for various reasons related the banking system forbiding it or if someone wants to stay hidden from tax authorities.

Most are afraid to take the path less traveled.  When things seem difficult most people quit but a few keep fighting and they end up with the rewards in the end.

Wrong logical thinking. The real problem here is the big mining company such as bitmain mining coins using ASIC. Solo miners are a good practice for decentralization. Large mining companies such as bitmain are causing the pain for small miners like us. So you better wish instead that bitmain or any large mining companies stops.

I like more people to stop mining so that miners who are mining at a loss now have lower mining difficulty.

I think that OP is desperately hoping for a change in the future's price. No matter how think about it his reasoning really is wrong but I still somehow likes how he would love to support the chain by mining.
 


You can't just depend on your luck. You are both wasting time and money doing something that can't guarantee you a profit. "bitcoin moon price" always provide false hope to users.

Somebody already pointed out how messed up your reasoning is but let me explain it to you again because you "mine at a loss because moon" people are misguided.

I mined bitcoin at a loss back in 2011 and 2012 simply because I didn't have access to a reliable exchange. I mean it was pretty much MtGox or private sales on the forum here. Had I spent my electricity funds on purchasing the coin I would have at least 20% more BTC than I do now. But I was not presented with that opportunity - back then it took Dwolla 2 weeks to funnel bank account funds into MtGox.

With the sheer number of exchanges and some countries openly accepting BTC as legal tender there is no reason to mine at a loss unless you want to hide your coins (privately generate your own blocks).

Taxing your mining is probably the last thing you want to do because anyway you look at it you will always end up spending additional expenses. This mining at a loss thread has gone so far already. Bottomline is still that mining at a loss is stupid and economical.

Sell or shutdown your miners.

I do not think that mining is a profitable business. If everything is done legally, then a lot of costs: electricity, rent of premises, equipment, taxes ...

Talk to your tax guy. Electricity costs are tax-deductible, if you work it right. you need to register a business, keep good notes, but there are a lot of things you can deduct as well. rent and insurance on a pro-rated basis...

Well people ask for the insane prices because they get lowball offers of 1/3 their asking price. Post a 1080Ti for $600 and somebody will offer $200 cash in hand if they can pick it up today lol.  I don't bother with craigslist of eBay - I sold everything through Amazon but that is filled with scam buyers now.

I can see the logic in selling a built rig at MSRP though - it does take a lot of time to build a rig cleanly and correctly with proper spacing, wiring, and good cable management. But seeing as how almost all coins are mined at a loss right now I don't see a hurry to get going with any rig except maybe a Vega Monero setup.

Yeah not disclosing mining behavior is just shady and scammy. It's about what I would expect from the general populace at large. No decency. I always ran my cards in the last 3 years with good thermals by undervolting so I have no problem reporting my mining and even boast about how low the voltage will go at stock speeds. Only thing I see bad with well kept miner cards are the fans.

Oddly the only card I have had die in the last 2 years was a 750Ti that I never once mined on. It only played games and killed the HDMI output so I got a 1050 out of it thanks to MSI.

Guess what, if they had spent that electricity money on directly buying the coins instead they would have made EVEN MORE profit. Mining at a loss is essentially the same thing as buying crypto at above market price. Not to mention the price of hardware.

It is very competitive at the moment, miners in regions of expensive electricity should retire their equipment for a while or relocate to areas with cheaper electricity. I anticipate this is only temporary as things may change any moment

Mining difficulty increased dramatically in the last couple of months as the number of miners increased, unfortunately, the price of coins did not.A lot of miners are already selling off, only a bullish market will revive mining and make it profitable

I don't know if you guys ever frequent your local Craiglist or Kijiji looking at the GPU deals but its pretty crazy what is going on.

Basically there are tons of GPUs out there, most are "ok" deals, basically a little under MSRP, but the excuses everyone uses for selling their GPUs is hilarious.

There is one dude, where he has a bunch of GPU boxes all stacked, saying "never mined with".

Another dude which is selling USB Risers on another post, is selling GPUs sepeartely and says they were never mined but were used for autocad/rendering/compute work.

Then there are the usual people who try and sell an entire GPU rig basically at or above MSRP. People who are asking MSRP prices for their 1080Ti's when the 2080 is pretty much released.

People posting fake "daily income per GPU". Like the daily income last month and not the current income.

Lots of shady stuff.

I don't understand why people just can't be honest and say "Was mined with, they still work great, comes with warranty if they fail. Selling because mining is no longer profitable. My loss is your gain".

Mining at a loss can be a great option if you have the ability to pay your electricity bills without cashing out.  A lot of people mined bitcoin when it was unprofitable and they came out millionaires.  Plus right now is a great time to pick up miners extremely cheap.

Yes, I know that at cryptocurrency all can be happen and we just can predict but you should accept current conditions.

with your main job salary to pay electricity bills?

or from mining results that only pay electricity bills?

it only wastes electricity and your time

You own choice since its your money and your miners no one can stop you on what you do like to do as long you are aware that you are mining on negative profits.Just one thing i do
have question on my mind why there are people who do make such decisions which even your own common sense can able to tell you that you are doing foolish thing unless if you do really
believe on crypto then its still a considerable reason but be ready on the money you would lost in just on your electricity consumption.

Well it is true that the market has been down lately and will soon rise again, it might happen because there is nothing impossible in the crypto world, and I continue to mine every day because it has become my additional job and I am not thinking about electricity losses , because I consider it like my working capital, and I will not be deterred, I will stay like this.

exactly the same as leonix007 think.


The question is whether they know to switch coins (manually / automatically) or choose another coin. If switch manually does have a little complicated when "calculating" even though we have whattomine but doesn't guarantee 100% the same as reality.

What are you mining? At what hashrate? How many GPUs? What are you electricity costs (should be really high).
Mining for loss is not reasonable at all. You might want to consider changing the algorithm and mining other coins.

yeah, still have my eth in my basket

I'm watching these coins Dash,EOS,XRP,XLM

and of course the doge Coin,  for pump and dump

Yes leon, I'm lazy to explain the factors that can affect earnings, I'm sure you also know. it isn't just a hardware that is owned and coins are mined but experience plays an important role in it.

btw, what coins are you holding or what coin want to buy. I have a bit ETH in a pocket from mining 7 months ago 

Guess, it doesn't matter bro

mining at a loss is not even logical

If my rigs wont cover its bills, then time to rest for the moment

Id rather buy coins which I believe would go up later on, than mine them

Its even more economical

I don't understand your questions.
If it means an electricity cost bigger than earn by mining, of course, you have the decision to shut down/ sell it your equipment. Btw, what is the equipment? is it Mining Rigs (GPUs)/ ASICs/ CPU/Mobile phone?

Personally
I want to stop mining and buy coins and store them until the market rises
Why do I damage my equipment and yet I lose the value of electricity ??

mining at a loss is dumb.

Mining at a loss is worth it if you are willing to hold the coins.  Right now is the time to accumulate more coins while all the other weak miners are quitting, stay strong!

Gpu,fpga,asic will always exist and they are all options for miners and the best performing one through out last years is gpus , nothing will die they will exist as long as crypto exists.
Most failure traders switch to mining as they hedge with hardware
Dark days like this will always come and pass , but mining isn't a war it's a buissnes if you mine at loss then you have alot of emotions in your buissnes , keep it math and stop if you are losing money

What...its better to mine than buy cos prices are going down....
So the coins lose value if u buy or mine, so then why is it better to mine? Makes absolutely no sense.
Next gpu shortage....not going to happen
Gpu shortage was started by guys who made a huge amount of cash, but then got worse by all the clowns coming in too late trying to play catch up....they created a ridiculous market by insisting they could make huge profits, sucking in even more clowns desperate not to miss a boat that had already sailed....

There wont be the same situation again, cos by the time you come to sell your 1080tis they will be worth so little, you'll cry, and ASICS and FPGA will have totally dominated mining.

The next shortage will be FPGAs, and once they get established gpu mining will be dead forever.

As for mining at a loss....if the coin is established, with a good market, no point whatsover....all this bull about contributing to the chain etc, total crap, so long as 2 people globally have their wallets open (full wallets) and at least 1 of them is mining, any chain will operate. If its a POS chain, then only need wallets open. So think about it, take BTC for example, the worldwide mining could drop my 1000 fold and if done in a controlled manner the chain would still work perfectly....

The only time to mine at a loss, is when new coins first come out before they have a market (therefore no other way to acquire them) or really old coins that again have no market.
Mine the crap out of the, and then hope they get listed / relisted.
Any other mining at a loss is just crazy, and shows how little grasp on reality many miners acutally have

Look around, read the forums, "https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/50-gpu-mining-farm-earns-less-than-10-a-day-voskcoin-mining-farm-profits-5016425" miners all over the globe are slowly realising that its time to turn off.

The article I've linked to, was just the first I came across today, but to give you a perspective, they are earning $10 ish off 50 gpus (no idea how true any of this is ) but I am earning $8 a day of 1 Ryzen 1700, and total power 120Watt. That's nearly max that this particular coin can generate per day ( I have 88% of global hashrate ), so I cant throw another 10 rigs at it, and make $80 a day, but it sits quietly in the background generating $8 a day, every day ($7 profit).

So cut your losses, either buy, or if you want to mine,spend weeks researching, and go find / make your own coin, remember there are nearly 12,000 coins to choose from.
Just remember when u find that nugget, much as you want to, don't tell everyone, let people put in the effort and find it the way you did.

1080Ti on amazon already selling for $600 (RX 580 for $200), so I am sure gamers will not pay over $300 for Ex miner 1080TI GPU's, and now think for how much they gonna sold in few month when RTX will be out, and AMD 7nm around the corner, the 2nd hand market is flooded with mining GPU's and it hard to sell now and in future so any1 that didn't ROI until now should really consider Selling the GPU's, they are loosing more Value per day on 2nd market then they mine.
The $$$ from selling the GPU's will "Mine" more coins then the GPU's could in Years.

That's all?  I heard 1M$. 

Now all hodl because they heared btc go to 250.000$ , so everyone want to be rich.=

Well it's good that there are some miners out there that actually hold their coins for a little while instead of selling them as soon as they get a pool payout.

The issue with all these alts crashing is also due to the people who are underwater with their rigs and sell ASAP hoping to ROI on their 1080ti eventually.

Miners dumping and lack of buyers and ETH about to break $200 which won't be good for anyone.

The smart people are the ones that either hold or they sell on rallies and not on dumps.

Can't see the point of the skyrocketing difficulty with that electricity prices i am hearing , i have almost free electricity and mining becoming unprofitable in the work done to mentain the hardware working 24/7 , so how about ppl paying for electricity i think they are just fighting against the truth that they had lost thier investments

I really cannot see any reasons why one would mine at a loss. Just buy the coins/tokens you are mining then, with mining at a loss you are basically just throwing money away you have a chance to multiply with just buying the cryptos you want.

I like your last sentence, I'm lucky for all mining rigs already ROI. Yes, for now, when someone wants to do mining it's should have a smart strategy, I don't think to sell all my rigs better is I mine Solo in Shitcoins or temporarily close it.

I think it's stupid to mine at loss, it's not 2015 again since back then the Value of the minable coin was low but you got lot's of coins and could made a lot of $$$$ in 2017, but now the Diff is the same crazy high and you get very little amount of coins (ETH) that even if the price jumps X5 it means you only got ~ $2 profit per day for 1080TI with Viagra Pill.

How this is better strategy then selling the 1080TI right now? remember that new GPU's are out and by next year with AMD's 7nm GPUS +NV RTX even the 1080TI will be sold at trash prices since no Gamers will pay more(now think about 1060/1070/AMD RX 2nd prices), the GPU performance by next year gonna Double, it's not 2017/18 again.

So it's better to sell the Pascal/Vega/RX GPU's now while they got so warranty left and take the money and maybe buy some coins at current dirty cheap prices or save the money for next year for new GPU's and hopefully GPU mining will be back at big time and we will meet here again with a big smile on our face :-).


 

OMG, this thread is still going? I cannot believe how hard of a concept this is to understand.

By mining you are buying the coin. The only difference is you are paying money to the electric company instead of an exchange for your coins.

So using your very own argument, you are spending REAL Fiat to buy electricity which in turn is used to mine assets that are going down every week.

The only difference is you are putting a extra layer into the buying process, mining.

Mining only makes sense when the cost to mine a coin is less than the going market rate, thus enabling you to obtain coins at a discount below market prices. Mining at a loss means you are paying above market prices for the coins you could get cheaper just by going to an exchange. What doesn't make sense about this, it is such a simple concept.

I know what you are trying to say but you are incorrect. People mine at a loss either because they are stupid or because they are trying to hide their acquisition of the tokens/coins (for whatever reason).

If they're gambling, they're doing it wrong. They are essentially tipping the power company for each bet they are making - it's a waste of energy and resources.  If the coin moons as you say, it's always better to have more coins (which is what would have been achieved if they bought instead of mined).

people mine because its fun

but mining at a loss is like throwing money away, you can sell everything buy coins and you'll end up with more, of course this is less fun 

people mine at lose are gamble
they think those coin will to the moon someday

Well this greatly depends on what coin you are mining. If you are mining the most profitable coin, selling it immediately would probably be a good strategy because most likely, it's a shitcoin that decreases in value, daily.

That being said, i also think mining at a loss is stupid. It's ok to shutdown your rigs boys.

BOLD strategy? Like cutting off a couple of fingers? Or putting you tongue into a paper shredder? How exactly does earning less coin with a set amount of fiat (the amount used to pay for electricity and operating overhead) ever make sense? Please spell it out for stupid me. I want to see some math. You know, hash it out.

Hint - big miners are making a profit because they have 2 cent electricity and massive data centers. Their operating costs per card are often less then 1/5 what a residential home miner would pay.

Haters?  

Again, retarded emotional comments obfuscating math.

Mining at a loss can be a bold strategy but it can pay off if you have patience.  I wouldn't listen to the haters, I would just keep up mining, the big miners are doing the same thing because the hashrates keep going up.  They know how valuable crypto will be in the future.

I got into crypto way back in 2011. I've seen all kinds of circuses go on. I have been scammed and I fell for a ponzi mostly because losing 500BTC meant nothing to me (yeah now it hurts like a shotgun to the gut).

With hindsight and much more passive approach I can tell people that they need to really take emotions out of their game (especially negative ones) and they need to think logically.

I know my posts don't fall on deaf ears because I have noobs always asking me what to buy or thanking me for slapping sense into them.

I do have a vested interest in crypto both financially and as being a participant in the world economy. I would like to see the crypto revolution suceed. I don't like seeing noobs get fleeced. But if they read all the warnings and still lose money well then, that's just entertainment.

Here's a thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/advice-for-new-users-regarding-cloud-mining-739510 I did back in 2014 when I started seeing every single user spam cloud mining in their signatures. I'm sure it helped at least 100 people stay the hell away from what were most certainly scams.

I've always been one to help people who are willing to help themselves (that's why I became a physician). For those looking to destroy themselves crypto is just like meth. A diabetic hell bent on eating pounds of rice and tortillas is going to enjoy taste for a couple of years over longevity. Makes me really wonder sometimes if dolphins or elephants aren't more intelligent than humans 

You've been literally trying to make these stupid people understand that for a big while (almost all of your recent posts are regarding this thing).

Stupid people will keep popping up, it's useless to spend your precious time on them.

I do understand your pain though!

Well it's great to see there's plenty of stupid people (yes, nothing better to call them than stupid) in the crypto scene. Stupid people make great fodder for scammers and ICOs and give legitimacy for government intervention to prevent stupid people from doing stupid things.

DON'T MINE AT A LOSS! SHUT OFF THE MINER EVEN IF IT IS PAID FOR. CREATING LOSS OF OPERATING CAPITOL IS NOT GOING TO HELP LOSS OF PORTFOLIO VALUE. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SUPPORT THE COIN DURING A DOWNTREND CREATE SOME DEMAND AND BUY THE COIN ON AN EXCHANGE.

I swear no matter how many times the people who understand post this concept the noobs just keep disregarding it and then complain 2 years later 

You maked me laugh
If power cost >= mining coin price at this moment better buy the fucking coin and conserve the RIG for further use.

This makes sense only if you use the heat to warm your home.

I didn't see the point in mining at a loss so I stopped mining and the money I'd pay electricity bills I invested in buying coins.
I sold gpus while they are still worth some money and still have some warranty.

You also support a network if you buy the token/coin with your own money.

You also seem to be a fan and supporter of electricity companies 

I would also mine at a loss because all the coins with Bitcoin leading the pack will be much higher in price than they are actually. On that day only the brave and the people who had patience will enjoy great profits from their investments.

This topic has been discussed but I think that the fight here is between IT people like myself who will mine at a loss against people who are economists or put economics first. I have enough of this fight in my daily job where economists are paid more than IT, and that is why I will change my job soon.

Nevermind OP, I have a real problem: Im actually looking at buying more hardware now that the prices have come down and good used cards are starting to show up on craigslist/kijiji. Im not mining at a loss yet but its pretty close (I only pay $0.06/kWh)

I used to think this way but then I realized the obvious that spending $10 on an exchange is going to yield more crypto than spending $10 in mining electricity regardless of its potential future value.

exactly , its beter to mine at break even or even a small loss than buy crytpo right now becase crypto prices are going down alot, at least mining you can hedge your bets with hardware if you have to exit and sell
you gpus when the next gpu shortage happens

this makes no sense, to buy those cryptos without mining you would have to either sell your gear ( terrible idea in a bear market , prices are low right now so it is dumb to sell atm) or spend real FIAT on assets that are going down every week

No such thing as mining at a loss,my advice is always mine the most profitable coin ,not is $ but in how many pieces of coins you can get ,always watch the difficulty rate ,more coins more cash when bull run occurs

I'll make both as a quote of the day. I like this, really! 


And it will guarantee to make some profit? Maybe just easier to do, right? 

OP
What does your electricity cost? Mine is $0.1. Maybe you need to move to another coin/algorithm for a better result.

Not selling the coins you mine is terrible advice.  Can't begin to tell you all of the money I made mining shitcoins that I knew would be worthless so I sold them daily. I watched the charts as they got lower every day.

This is simple and logical and the right thing to do. Even so, many people will continue mining simply because they are used to mine something. Inertia is a powerful thing. And I don't blame them. It may turn out that they will cover their losses in the future. It may also turn out that the coins they are mining won't survive this bear market. Also possible. I mined a coin once for a week or so in hope for a future profit, but it never materialized.

Somehow HODL the coins you have mined by now, on a market crash the profitable is always GPU, it is a lot better than ASICs in times we have right now. Better to not sell the coins you mine that will put you a loser at all, instead keep it and sell once market recovers.

We are in the same situation where mining is unprofitable but I still keeps on mining even it's unprofitable.
Well, my strategy sometimes I mining shitcoins and sell soon because the price is really expensive at the first release on the market. However, it's time-consuming and you don't know what will be the price after release to the market.

I still mining because I feel that the coins that I mine can be valuable in the future if I keep them holding.
I know there are some ways to don't lose the opportunity to make a profit like using profit auto switching from the awesome miner. So if you wan't to make profit in mining then try the auto switching profit some pools offering autoswitch mining profit.

the idea is --> do not sell any coin you are mining, let your day job pay the bills, if you sell any coin to pay the bills then you are doing it wrong.


Well the best thing is not to mine at loss but as long the person does not use what it mines to pay the bills then i guess is not bad, mine at loss and sell this low to pay bills is called the double loss and anybody doing it better to stop it.

that right config you rig and go to do other thing to make some money to you too.

Its better for my minres to be doing something instead of sitting idle doing nothing.  I have no problem mining at a loss because I help support the network and crypto for the future.

Indeed, this is completely absurd and shows a lack of basic understanding of economics.
He can get more coin simply buying on an exchange with what he spends in electricty...

I never understood why people would mine at a loss. It is basically the same thing as paying more than the exchange rate for a coin. Simply buy the coin directly and save your money.

Unless buying from an exchange is not an option for you, but even then there are probably better ways to acquire coins rather than paying more in electricity than they are worth, not to mention the wear and tear on your rigs.

I know the prices are low but I know the bull market will return and prices will soar again.  I'm currently mining in a loss  after electricity costs but I know it will be worth it.  I'll let the panic sellers get rid of their equipment while I will stay strong.