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Topic: Impact of ASICs on Bitcoin security (Read 3003 times)

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1014
July 09, 2013, 01:44:54 PM
#33

Not when you are in control of the manufacturing process yourself.  I know several pcb assemblers here in China that could start mass producing ASICs tomorrow and you'd never hear a thing about it.

If such entities existed they would already be selling ASICs and raking in tons of cash, no?

The cash value of BTC would drop very fast if that happens, too fast to sell enough BTC an the existing, super bottlenecky exchanges. A government, mainly the Chinese or US government, could prepare and execute such an attack, but that would only serve to destroy BTC, not to make money.

However it remains a fact that scrypt coins are more resistant to this type of attack. In a year or two, Asics will be so common that a secret ASIC attack will no longer be realistic but for the time being, during the transition from GPU to Asic, the risk exists.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
July 08, 2013, 01:04:22 AM
#32
Bitcoin is retarded. I don't support Bitcoin. Only scrypt based coins.

Scrypt based coins have 99.9% the same coding as Bitcoin.

*facepalm*
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
!!!INCAKOIN!!!
July 07, 2013, 11:51:59 PM
#31
Bitcoin is retarded. The United States government spends more money on a roll of toilet then it would take to shut bitcoin down.  Grin btw time it takes to drop a bunker buster tomahawk on Butterfly labs. A button push away. And alot of missle guidance systems still have Celeron processors in them. Imagine that Celeron destroying the asic. Its really not a currency war, its the battle of old and new hardware. I don't support Bitcoin. Only scrypt based coins.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
aka 7Strykes
July 03, 2013, 11:51:03 AM
#30
Litecoin went from 10 cents to 2.75$ now. I wish I would have invested
Don't you mean 0 cents to $2.75?

True, but I started watching it at 10 cents
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
July 03, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
#29
Litecoin went from 10 cents to 2.75$ now. I wish I would have invested
Don't you mean 0 cents to $2.75?
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
aka 7Strykes
July 03, 2013, 11:33:38 AM
#28
Litecoin went from 10 cents to 2.75$ now. I wish I would have invested
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
July 03, 2013, 11:29:15 AM
#27
Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.
Litecoin is not ASIC proof.

In technicality is is not.  In reality it is.  ASICs would be a poor way to attack any scrypt coin as they would be more expensive then just buying off the shelf GPU's to carry out the same attack and useless after. 

As I see it, until the ASICs are more evenly held in the market, it is harder to do a 51% on LTC then on BTC.  My hope is that ASICs will become more evenly distributed to the mining community.  Right now they are in too few hands. 

This is nonsense.  What keeps litecoin from attracting ASICs is that litecoin is pointless, not some magic in scrypt.  If litecoin ever gets to the point that people are actually using it for commerce, then ASICs will follow quickly.

Cost is holding back ASICs for now. Problem is once they are developed and released, Litecoin loses it's biggest selling point.
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
July 03, 2013, 11:05:20 AM
#26
Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.
Litecoin is not ASIC proof.

In technicality is is not.  In reality it is.  ASICs would be a poor way to attack any scrypt coin as they would be more expensive then just buying off the shelf GPU's to carry out the same attack and useless after. 

As I see it, until the ASICs are more evenly held in the market, it is harder to do a 51% on LTC then on BTC.  My hope is that ASICs will become more evenly distributed to the mining community.  Right now they are in too few hands. 

This is nonsense.  What keeps litecoin from attracting ASICs is that litecoin is pointless, not some magic in scrypt.  If litecoin ever gets to the point that people are actually using it for commerce, then ASICs will follow quickly.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
July 03, 2013, 10:37:32 AM
#25
I think they should do away with the difficulty increase. Then everyone with a computer could hash some coins.  People with a faster computer would get more coins but even Joe Shmoe with his 5 year old laptop can make some money then.

Is this some form of bizarre sick joke?

I'mah chahgin' mah laptopz!
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
July 03, 2013, 08:48:50 AM
#24
I think they should do away with the difficulty increase. Then everyone with a computer could hash some coins.  People with a faster computer would get more coins but even Joe Shmoe with his 5 year old laptop can make some money then.

Is this some form of bizarre sick joke?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
July 03, 2013, 08:09:49 AM
#23
While the market cap of Bitcoin might be around $1 billion, it would be difficult to create a double spend and "cash-out" $7.5 million to recoup costs. 

Anyone attacking the network in this manner is probably only looking to destroy the network at this point.

Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.

Explain why you think ASICs have ruined Bitcoin. I think its actually good for it.

The network is being secured by fewer entities.  The whole principle of Bitcoin's security is that the hashing power be massively distributed.

I think they should do away with the difficulty increase. Then everyone with a computer could hash some coins.  People with a faster computer would get more coins but even Joe Shmoe with his 5 year old laptop can make some money then. You can help Seti@Home or Folding@Home even with an old computer. They are more widely distributed than Bitcoin mining is.

The current system favours the big guys with large amounts of money. In a few years you probably can't compete even with a single ASIC you'd need a huge datacentre full with them to be profitable. Maybe then only ASICminer and 2 or 3 more competitors will still be mining then. Undecided



Not understanding how bitcoin security work
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
July 03, 2013, 07:27:18 AM
#22
While the market cap of Bitcoin might be around $1 billion, it would be difficult to create a double spend and "cash-out" $7.5 million to recoup costs. 

Anyone attacking the network in this manner is probably only looking to destroy the network at this point.

Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.

Explain why you think ASICs have ruined Bitcoin. I think its actually good for it.

The network is being secured by fewer entities.  The whole principle of Bitcoin's security is that the hashing power be massively distributed.

I think they should do away with the difficulty increase. Then everyone with a computer could hash some coins.  People with a faster computer would get more coins but even Joe Shmoe with his 5 year old laptop can make some money then. You can help Seti@Home or Folding@Home even with an old computer. They are more widely distributed than Bitcoin mining is.

The current system favours the big guys with large amounts of money. In a few years you probably can't compete even with a single ASIC you'd need a huge datacentre full with them to be profitable. Maybe then only ASICminer and 2 or 3 more competitors will still be mining then. Undecided
sr. member
Activity: 412
Merit: 250
July 03, 2013, 07:10:29 AM
#21
The thing that people often forget in these 51% attack calculations is that while it may seem possible to 51% attack the network based on the current bitcoin hashrate, by the time you actually bring your ASICS to market things will be completely different. Producing bitcoin ASICs is not a simple thing, which is one of the reasons why all of the bitcoin ASIC producers have taken so long to do it. By the time a malicious entity finds the right staff, conducts the research, produces the ASICs, and sets them up for hashing, the network will be many times larger, meaning that your attack is likely to fail. It's the incredible rate of growth that really protects the network. 
sr. member
Activity: 272
Merit: 250
July 03, 2013, 07:05:00 AM
#20

Not when you are in control of the manufacturing process yourself.  I know several pcb assemblers here in China that could start mass producing ASICs tomorrow and you'd never hear a thing about it.

If such entities existed they would already be selling ASICs and raking in tons of cash, no?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
July 03, 2013, 06:52:22 AM
#19
Quote
ASICs would be a poor way to attack any scrypt coin
Quote
However, there is debate as to whether a scrypt ASIC can actually perform any better than a GPU
Do you really believe this bullshit or you just keep copy-pasting it trying to attract more people to LTC and make your coin moar expensive?  Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 302
Merit: 250
July 03, 2013, 05:17:22 AM
#18
I think if anyone made the kind of order needed to 51% attack bitcoin, news would get out fast because supplies would dry up for all legitimate players before it could be accomplished.

Not when you are in control of the manufacturing process yourself.  I know several pcb assemblers here in China that could start mass producing ASICs tomorrow and you'd never hear a thing about it.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 02, 2013, 10:59:37 PM
#17
I think if anyone made the kind of order needed to 51% attack bitcoin, news would get out fast because supplies would dry up for all legitimate players before it could be accomplished.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
July 02, 2013, 10:48:55 PM
#16
Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.
Litecoin is not ASIC proof.

In technicality is is not.  In reality it is.  ASICs would be a poor way to attack any scrypt coin as they would be more expensive then just buying off the shelf GPU's to carry out the same attack and useless after. 

As I see it, until the ASICs are more evenly held in the market, it is harder to do a 51% on LTC then on BTC.  My hope is that ASICs will become more evenly distributed to the mining community.  Right now they are in too few hands. 
sr. member
Activity: 302
Merit: 250
July 02, 2013, 10:41:50 PM
#15
Sure, Litecoin may not be ASIC proof.  However, there is debate as to whether a scrypt ASIC can actually perform any better than a GPU.  Of course if an ASIC for scrypt is developed at some point in the future and proves to be radically superior in efficiency as we saw with Bitcoin, we will see the security of the Litecoin network diminish and folks will look to the next technology that can offer security.

As for Litecoin's hash rate distribution, you can find those stats at www.litecoinpool.org/pools if you're interested. 
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
July 02, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
#14
While the market cap of Bitcoin might be around $1 billion, it would be difficult to create a double spend and "cash-out" $7.5 million to recoup costs. 

Anyone attacking the network in this manner is probably only looking to destroy the network at this point.

Yes, ASICs have unfortunately ruined Bitcoin.  If you're looking for security, use Litecoin.

Explain why you think ASICs have ruined Bitcoin. I think its actually good for it.

The network is being secured by fewer entities.  The whole principle of Bitcoin's security is that the hashing power be massively distributed.
I bet most people mine on a small handful of centralized pools in Litecoin. The hashing power is in the hands a few also.

They should be using decentralized pools like p2pool to migrate this risk.
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