Impact of Bitfinex hack on the economy - page 2.

stompix

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Quote from: darewaller on February 12, 2022, 11:25:41 PM

Honestly it doesn't even matter because if they could have withdrawn to bitcoin somewhere, if they kept some bitcoins to this day, then they would be still quite rich. Laundering bitcoin is not really "that" difficult, why they end up with this type of problem is beyond my understanding.

Because the theory behind a monitor is different from real life.

Quote from: darewaller on February 12, 2022, 11:25:41 PM

There are mixers everywhere and if you really want to do it, just use monero and hide your wealth and you would be able to withdraw small by small.

How do you hide your wealth?
This is not about hiding your wealth from other poeple so they don't whose know house this is, this is about hiding your wealth from the IRS.
You go and buy a 30k car, with what money if you're unemployed? You buy a 300k house, again with what money?
It doesn't matter what you used to launder your money, from monero to mixers, you have solved one problem, the tracing from where the coins originated, but you can't hide the physical wealth and you can't hide real-life purchases.

Quote from: darewaller on February 12, 2022, 11:25:41 PM

Nobody really needs a billion dollars anyway, if you could just withdraw 10 million dollars a month, from like 20 even 50 different names which would be people around you basically, and then give them a share, then you could actually do it.

They weren't able to withdraw 178k and 122k in 3 months from an exchange and you're talking about 10 million a month?
Oh, let 50 poeple know that you have billions, and let your family share your prison time.
Do you think Cex and banks and the IRS are stupid? They have reports of poeple withdrawing money from exchanges when they see entire families withdrawing in each of the member's names cash what do you think they will do?

Quote from: darewaller on February 12, 2022, 11:25:41 PM

50 different people would be the hard part if you are stuck at home all the time but if you are a popular person you should be able to convince that many people, which makes it only 200k dollars per month and would fly under the radar if you could be careful.

Exactly, contacting stranger after stranger to help you exchange coins to fiat and have that sent to you in a parcel to a PO box won't trigger any flags from them, there won't be anyone ratting you out to the FBI and there won't be anyone blackmailing you after this. Cheesy

darewaller

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Quote from: stompix on February 12, 2022, 08:43:24 AM

There is no billion anywhere.
Those $4.5 billions are the total amount the entire stash of bitcoins would be worth now, but the two tried a lot of times, unsuccessfully to launder those coins, starting with early 2017, and by that time one coin was under 1k.

For example one of their deposit to a Cex identified was frozen somewhere in March 217 with $186,000, which was around 200BTC which could be said is now $8.5 million worth but those are long gone. The couple managed to get almost 1 million dollars out of exchanges but that while spending 1000 coins worth now $42 million. Most of that money was already frozen when they miserably failed time after time to provide documents, so no, there is no billion left anywhere.

Honestly it doesn't even matter because if they could have withdrawn to bitcoin somewhere, if they kept some bitcoins to this day, then they would be still quite rich. Laundering bitcoin is not really "that" difficult, why they end up with this type of problem is beyond my understanding.

There are mixers everywhere and if you really want to do it, just use monero and hide your wealth and you would be able to withdraw small by small. Nobody really needs a billion dollars anyway, if you could just withdraw 10 million dollars a month, from like 20 even 50 different names which would be people around you basically, and then give them a share, then you could actually do it.

50 different people would be the hard part if you are stuck at home all the time but if you are a popular person you should be able to convince that many people, which makes it only 200k dollars per month and would fly under the radar if you could be careful. If not, just one person? It is still like 500k per day from somewhere if you launder it from monero.

stompix

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 11, 2022, 07:52:04 PM

Not sure how i missed this news, a couple behind the hack, looks like a bond movie. So what about the $1 billion, they stashed it somewhere and usually in situations like a major hack or a major theft they usually do not recover everything and a major portion will be missing, so these hackers will get hold of the money once they get our of the jail.

There is no billion anywhere.
Those $4.5 billions are the total amount the entire stash of bitcoins would be worth now, but the two tried a lot of times, unsuccessfully to launder those coins, starting with early 2017, and by that time one coin was under 1k.

For example one of their deposit to a Cex identified was frozen somewhere in March 217 with $186,000, which was around 200BTC which could be said is now $8.5 million worth but those are long gone. The couple managed to get almost 1 million dollars out of exchanges but that while spending 1000 coins worth now $42 million. Most of that money was already frozen when they miserably failed time after time to provide documents, so no, there is no billion left anywhere.

adaseb

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They are not going to put it thru auction like they did in the past. When they were auctioning off bitcoins in the past it was coins which were seized from Silk Road and such. These coins belong either to Bitfinex or the users who had funds back in 2016.

Most likely they won’t hold them for long. Maybe until after the trial. And then most likely sent to Bitfinex and where it goes from there is anyone’s guess. No idea if users will be compensated or if it belongs to Bitfinex legally.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 11, 2022, 07:52:04 PM

Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

$3.5 billion recovered out of the stolen $4.5 billion by
the couple: Heather Morgan and Ilya Lichtenstein after a thorough investigations, they were arrested by the US department of Justice for being the masterminds behind the hack of Bitfinex exchange in 2016 claiming about $4.5 biliion

Not sure how i missed this news, a couple behind the hack, looks like a bond movie. So what about the $1 billion, they stashed it somewhere and usually in situations like a major hack or a major theft they usually do not recover everything and a major portion will be missing, so these hackers will get hold of the money once they get our of the jail.

Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

Usually they would return to the exchange and it is not going to be in circulation all of a sudden, if not they usually auction off these. I do not see any major changes to the price because of this.

We will not see the impact in the market as long as the government is holding it.
Usually, they put it in auction after years of holding, because there will be investigations and documentations that will be done first.
And as we have observed, even after the auction, the price comes back to normal.
For me, we don't have to worry about this because it may not happen anytime soon and won't be a determining factor of the btc fate in the market.

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

$3.5 billion recovered out of the stolen $4.5 billion by
the couple: Heather Morgan and Ilya Lichtenstein after a thorough investigations, they were arrested by the US department of Justice for being the masterminds behind the hack of Bitfinex exchange in 2016 claiming about $4.5 biliion

Not sure how i missed this news, a couple behind the hack, looks like a bond movie. So what about the $1 billion, they stashed it somewhere and usually in situations like a major hack or a major theft they usually do not recover everything and a major portion will be missing, so these hackers will get hold of the money once they get our of the jail.

Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

Usually they would return to the exchange and it is not going to be in circulation all of a sudden, if not they usually auction off these. I do not see any major changes to the price because of this.

Mahanton

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Quote from: CryptocurencyKing on February 11, 2022, 05:25:40 PM

Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

It would be nothing new and nothing far from what happens when the law of demand and supply applies and that is, flooding the market with more bitcoins and should that be of significant, it would push the market to being bearish but, the market is sure to recover shortly afterwards.

Though, I don't think the government would want to do that. Perhaps the next good thing would have been to see how they could compensate indigenous users of the exchange but, there no support for bitcoin could be some reason in the way. Coupled with what ever conspiracy they might have.

All for now would be assumptions that there would be some sort of compensation but they have already done that in the past which it is unlikely that they would be given some of those coins recovered.
It is indeed for sure it would make out some impact but not really that much considering into those number of coins which wouldnt really be that enough on taking the market down unless if
there would be some sort of FUD which make things even more worst but for now all of those things are just presumptions and theres no guarantee that it could happen.
Lets just see and wait on what would be the future updates for this one.

fullhdpixel

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I would estimate that these type of money should be nothing for the size of a company bitfinex is, and that is why it didn't really impact anything. And the "funny" situation of it really caused it to be a bit more blunt and not really impact anything in a long period of time neither and since they are "caught" as well so it is not really a big deal.

I would assume that doing it 10x bigger amount or so and getting away with it could have been a bigger deal but at the same time that did not happen so we would only be able to guess these type of things. If you are in the crypto world and you trust exchanges with your money then you have to accept the fact that it could be hacked.

CryptocurencyKing

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Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

It would be nothing new and nothing far from what happens when the law of demand and supply applies and that is, flooding the market with more bitcoins and should that be of significant, it would push the market to being bearish but, the market is sure to recover shortly afterwards.

Though, I don't think the government would want to do that. Perhaps the next good thing would have been to see how they could compensate indigenous users of the exchange but, there no support for bitcoin could be some reason in the way. Coupled with what ever conspiracy they might have.

fiulpro

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First of all as they said they recovered the bitcoins , which does mean that they did not really steal and sell, they kept those coins. The government currently seized those coins and there is high chances that it would be given back to the people whose bitcoins were stolen but it's government work, it takes ages which does mean that we might have to wait for a really long time to see that happening. At the same time what individuals will do with their bitcoins will be their own choice, you cannot generally put anything on it. I do think that government at least did the good job of tracking them back, which shows how government involvement in Bitcoins and cryptocurrencies can make it more legal and cannot be all bad.

so98nn

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Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

[...]
As am against any unlawful act as such in Bitfinex hack, my question is that, what can we say about government impact on regulating crypto as in the case of Bitfinex.
[...]

Definitely this has made a worst impression on them and we should not care about it much since fiat is more hampered as compared to the bitcoin. I mean on any given time period there are cases of bank looting, with shooting around, peeps getting hurt, sometimes cross firing death tolls etc. I mean, if we compare it in that sense then definitely bitcoin is far safer and also Bitfinex Hack won't matter much. Most of the money is now recovered in both circulation liquidity and actual coins which were lost and found.

Government is regulating the fiat, but it does not mean that they are able to stop the robberies all the time.

Moreover, its better than drugs and alcohol. Crypto is at least clean without any impact on economy as such.

Similificator

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Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

- In all honesty, I am quite suspicious about this hack. Just think about it, if they were the real masterminds or if this hack is even real, just imagine how much thinking and plannknv has gone through this scheme. Do you think that if they were smart enough to device such a plan they would not have any exit plans or at least have some commonsense that if they do this or that they'd be fckd? Either this is a fake hack, or these poor couple were used as a scapegoat. Oh well, this is just my own opinion anyway.

Quote

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

-It'll barely have an effect obviously. The good thing about this though is that at least these 94,000 bitcoins will go back to the market and be circulated as it should be.

pinggoki

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I think that the impact wouldn't be felt, that much isn't bitcoin around 800 billion USD in total market cap already? Then that means that even when those stolen bitcoin gets reintroduced then it's not going to be adding that much effect and those bitcoin seized won't be reintroduced straight away, they're going to be auctioned and those who wins the bid will have the final say.

tygeade

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on February 10, 2022, 05:02:44 PM

they haven't sold yet that large amount of btc and i don't think they will sell it all at once. and in any case, we have seen many times how bitcoin auctions were done. it may have an impact at the time of auction but afterwards, the btc price always recover. so yes, imo, there's no need to be paranoid about it. and in case they will sell cheap, it will be your opportunity to get your satoshis.
and btw, are they going to give back the recovered funds to bitfinex or not? we don't know yet where will those bitcoins go.

It is hard for them to sell it because the address that they use are already track, much more if they sold it at once or at bigger amount but now that the hackers have caught, the bitcoins that they stole will never be sold. They only waste time and effort there, how unfortunate they are. Kudos to the authorities for doing a good job.

Other hackers now are thinking if they will continue their evil plans after reading this news. Anyway I do not think someone will buy a stolen coin even if we say the price is cheap. Better if they will return the coins back to the exchange and the exchange will re distribute it to the costumers which bitcoin got hacked.

darewaller

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Quote from: stompix on February 10, 2022, 09:59:59 AM

snip~

That is just poor journalism from coindesk

Quote

The Gigi brothers Eli, 31, and Assaf, 21, also allegedly constructed a phishing scheme that involved luring investors from crypto trading forums, such as Telegram or Reddit, onto websites that mimicked prominent crypto exchanges. They would collect the traders’ login and wallet information and use it to transfer the funds stored on legitimate exchanges to their own accounts.

They didn't hack anything, they were just sending phising links to eveyone, why would you try to get login details when you had access directly to the cold wallet?

I wouldn't really be too shocked. I have been in journalism for over 6 years now (not really, just content writing, but to places that does have journalists so I know them) and I could tell you that these people barely research their topic. In fact, they barely read the news they are sharing as well.

I have seen people who wrote topics that are so irrelevant to the context that, you would assume they are writing 100 articles a day by how rushed of a job it was and that was just the only thing they wrote that week. Journalism is not what it used to be, people do not care about news as much as they used to, hell many people get news from twitter let alone reading a newspaper, so journalism is a dying business with money still in it, making it difficult to find people who would be willing to do the work for a little amount of money just to make their bosses richer.

dothebeats

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This is not a case of a lack of government regulation but rather an insecure site with vulnerabilities that can be exploited. IMO, the recovered funds will not affect the price of bitcoin in a huge way. Maybe once the funds were given back as compensation, people will immediately sell, but seeing that bitcoin is performing positively as of late, I doubt that's something people would do. The government will probably hold on to those coins just like they do on previous seized coins, and auction them off to not affect the market directly.

dunfida

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Quote from: adaseb on February 10, 2022, 05:27:01 PM

Anyone know what will happen with the recovered funds? I was part of the hack back in 2016 and was given some token in return. It wasn’t LEO but something else, that token rose in value and I sold it and my loss in terms of fiat was very minimal, so I didn’t care and moved on.

So now that they are recovered who will get all of them? Most likely it will be the owners of Bitfinex since they gave us those tokens back in 2016. Would be nice to get some of it back in BTC term and not fiat.

If there are some sort of compensation into those times where bitfinex owners had done then it would be normal that they would really be getting all of those coins/assets that had been hacked
since they wouldnt really be having any liability since they had already done their part but it would be good if they would consider it out on giving some portion at least into those users
who had been affected but its better not to be hopeful for this thing since there would be no assurance that it could happen.

adaseb

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Anyone know what will happen with the recovered funds? I was part of the hack back in 2016 and was given some token in return. It wasn’t LEO but something else, that token rose in value and I sold it and my loss in terms of fiat was very minimal, so I didn’t care and moved on.

So now that they are recovered who will get all of them? Most likely it will be the owners of Bitfinex since they gave us those tokens back in 2016. Would be nice to get some of it back in BTC term and not fiat.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: tabas on February 10, 2022, 06:43:47 AM

Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

Nothing. No matter what the good and bad news are there, one thing for sure is that bitcoin will continue to thrive. And even those seized coins are back in circulation and they start selling it, it will eventually go up as everyone's going to buy those cheap bitcoins.
There's really no need to worry about this news. We've seen many type of bad news and FUD yet the market has grown stronger and better. That's what I think and it doesn't make me worry whether they put that seized coins on an auction or dump it immediately.

they haven't sold yet that large amount of btc and i don't think they will sell it all at once. and in any case, we have seen many times how bitcoin auctions were done. it may have an impact at the time of auction but afterwards, the btc price always recover. so yes, imo, there's no need to be paranoid about it. and in case they will sell cheap, it will be your opportunity to get your satoshis.
and btw, are they going to give back the recovered funds to bitfinex or not? we don't know yet where will those bitcoins go.

marilynmanson21

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Quote from: Dunamisx on February 10, 2022, 04:26:36 AM

What impact do you think this will have on bitcoin price if the total seizure were back into circulation?

I don't think it will affect the market if the government sells it gradually, it's just a stupid government if it sells bitcoin prices cheaply, at least if the confiscated BTC can help the country's finances why should they destroy the bitcoin price itself

Topic: Impact of Bitfinex hack on the economy - page 2. (Read 398 times)