Topic: IMPORTANT! - US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin (Read 941 times)
December 12, 2017, 07:24:31 PM
2018 is going to be a busy year, just make sure you're prepared and safe
December 12, 2017, 07:12:11 PM
because bitcoin is decentralized it had been used in illegal activities so maybe the government is to prevent this people from doing illegal. or it is just government want to tax this bitcoin holder.
December 12, 2017, 05:59:14 PM
That is just their way of criminalizing holding bitcoin without actually doing that, as you say you can hold cash or even gold without having to report it but when it comes to bitcoin they want to know exactly how much you are holding
As written, the bill doesn't entail that. I don't see anything that says cryptocurrency holdings must be declared. Rather, they seem to be targeting Bitcoin/cryptocurrency services. The expansion of the definition of "financial institution" would make exchanges, brokers, tumblers and perhaps even payment processors (Bitpay/Shapeshift) implement stiff AML/KYC protocols when interfacing with US customers. If passed, I think a lot of services will begin prohibiting US customers.
At that point, things get more complicated for US residents. The bill essentially makes it unlawful for US residents to misrepresent or conceal their identity to these services. For example, I think that using fake personal information on no-KYC or low-KYC exchanges will become illegal if this bill is passed. That doesn't mean you need to declare crypto holdings, but it provides a deterrent to tax evasion when taking profits.
December 12, 2017, 05:21:24 PM
https://cryptostreet.co/man-from-michigan-to-serve-1-year-in-prison-for-trading-bitcoins/
According to tax laws in the US, cryptocurrencies are assets. Selling them or trading them at a profit requires a tax declaration of some kind - capital gains tax (and vice versa to declare a loss). The case above was from a different regulatory body called FinCen which regulates financial transactions. A lot of people in the space are already on the wrong side of the law at the moment but you cant really blame them for it.
I agree that crypto should not be used for evading taxes as I am a firm believer that everyone needs to pay their fair share of tax. However, more regulations in the space can be bad for growth --- as I believe in a free market, the market should self-regulate the good from the bad.
This is really bad. According to tax laws in the US, cryptocurrencies are assets. Selling them or trading them at a profit requires a tax declaration of some kind - capital gains tax (and vice versa to declare a loss). The case above was from a different regulatory body called FinCen which regulates financial transactions. A lot of people in the space are already on the wrong side of the law at the moment but you cant really blame them for it.
I agree that crypto should not be used for evading taxes as I am a firm believer that everyone needs to pay their fair share of tax. However, more regulations in the space can be bad for growth --- as I believe in a free market, the market should self-regulate the good from the bad.
He violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 1960. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1960
Not sure though if the term the "unlicensed money transmitting business" can be applied to individual money transfers. Most likely it because hey used the business bank account of corporation he owned to transfer money. But any comments from a legal professional would be appreciated.
December 12, 2017, 03:20:47 PM
What does "Concealed ownership of Bitcoin" even mean? That doesn't even make sense. Like, it is perfectly legal to own cash and hold it in your house so why not be able to own Bitcoin and hold it without reporting to someone? That is abdsolutely brutal and authorotarian. People whould not worry about just keeping their Bitcoin to themselves and not reporting everything to the government.
That is just their way of criminalizing holding bitcoin without actually doing that, as you say you can hold cash or even gold without having to report it but when it comes to bitcoin they want to know exactly how much you are holding, it is obvious this is a law against bitcoin holders, however at the end like most laws is not going to work since many holders are simply not going to comply. December 09, 2017, 10:04:33 PM
From the wording it doesnt seem like it only applies to Bitcoins but to all cryptocurrencies. This is already a problem at the moment because people are already going to jail for trading assets with cash.
Can you evaluate a bit what you mean? In what jurisdications are people going to jail because they are trading crypto for fiat? Or do you mean by this, that they trade assets for cash to evade taxation somehow? If so, then I also think that this should be punished. Crypto cant be a law free heaven for all people that want to evade taxation, if it was, it could never grow to mainstream adoption, and this is what we all want to happen I suppose, so we need to make arrangements with the governments, thats for sure.
https://cryptostreet.co/man-from-michigan-to-serve-1-year-in-prison-for-trading-bitcoins/
According to tax laws in the US, cryptocurrencies are assets. Selling them or trading them at a profit requires a tax declaration of some kind - capital gains tax (and vice versa to declare a loss). The case above was from a different regulatory body called FinCen which regulates financial transactions. A lot of people in the space are already on the wrong side of the law at the moment but you cant really blame them for it.
I agree that crypto should not be used for evading taxes as I am a firm believer that everyone needs to pay their fair share of tax. However, more regulations in the space can be bad for growth --- as I believe in a free market, the market should self-regulate the good from the bad.
December 09, 2017, 08:31:02 PM
From the wording it doesnt seem like it only applies to Bitcoins but to all cryptocurrencies. This is already a problem at the moment because people are already going to jail for trading assets with cash.
Can you evaluate a bit what you mean? In what jurisdications are people going to jail because they are trading crypto for fiat? Or do you mean by this, that they trade assets for cash to evade taxation somehow? If so, then I also think that this should be punished. Crypto cant be a law free heaven for all people that want to evade taxation, if it was, it could never grow to mainstream adoption, and this is what we all want to happen I suppose, so we need to make arrangements with the governments, thats for sure.
December 08, 2017, 09:27:12 PM
From the wording it doesnt seem like it only applies to Bitcoins but to all cryptocurrencies. This is already a problem at the moment because people are already going to jail for trading assets with cash.
December 08, 2017, 08:27:41 PM
I mean what did you all expect after the IRS essentially raided Coinbase's records with the permission of the judges. If you thought the search and snooping would stop there you are all naive as hell. I didn't expect anything less from the U S of A because that is what they like to do get on your case really hard prior to anything happening. It is good for them but I don't really think this will solve any problems moving forward and as some have alluded I think this will pave the way even more so for anon cryptos than it already has.
December 08, 2017, 07:58:23 PM
This is against the law, i find it like trying to take over your bank accounts, bitcoin's characteristics is being anonymous, as well as the banks, they will keep your money and will not allow anyone to have access on it, i do not see, what is the difference between banks, and peopld who keep the money in a safe place. Bitcoin that is being kept in our wallets, was not stolen in the first place, why would they want to criminalize a person, they should ask help from japan and ask, how did they do it, if it is because japanese are disciplined people, then i think it will be our fault, not being disciplined.
December 08, 2017, 05:49:34 PM
This is something I think as well, governments have two routes, they either accept cryptocurrencies and try to integrate them to the formal economy and make their best to not pursue crypto users, or they can take the criminal route and think that everyone that holds bitcoin is a criminal, if they follow the latter that is only going to harden the position of many and are going to use coins that are more difficult to trace.
Instead of banning it, they should have had use it to their advantage like how Japan did when they legalized bitcoin. They will probably use coins with more anonymity like you said. Some might even consider moving into another country if they want to continue to use btc. I think this move they have made is a wrong move, they will surely suffer losses in the future if btc were to become mainstream. The most possible effect when it happens is that they would be left behind in case usage of fiat is seized. It might not happen soon though.
December 04, 2017, 12:22:11 AM
Many governments are really threaten by something they could not completely control on their hands. Even in China right now, there are still many who are actively participating in the Bitcoin market and the government is losing possible tax revenues had they not banned its open trading activities. They do not understand the fact that cryptocurrencies are actually acting now as currency and as such there is no point of requiring Bitcoin holders to declare what they got...instead the government may require a report when Bitcoin is exchanged for fiat under certain threshold of amount. Anyway, let's see how things will develop on this area. We are just hoping that the USA government authorities would not be myopic in their approach (just like they are doing with other issues).
December 04, 2017, 12:00:13 AM
This possibility is in circulation/news that’s been monitored here in the forum,, making it unsurprising at all.. I do know if they what is the end result of it but until it is still not fully implemented the result would be speculative at this time.. I’m not against regulation or any law passed for the protection of one country but to used excuses like “can be used by illegal act” is already a lame and uncalled for..
December 03, 2017, 11:47:06 PM
I mean, I think this bill is just a statement to the cryptocurrency community-- pretty much saying that they have the votes (and power) to do as they please if they'd like to. This is a power play by the US government and those that run it, because we all know that the government and the politicans inside of it can make our lives a living hell by making owning Bitcoins something which is very hard to do. Gosh it could be a shit-show.
This'll also deter new users from coming into Bitcoin as they'll see the governments stance on Bitcoin.
Kinda horrid, I'd recommend calling your rep or senator.
This'll also deter new users from coming into Bitcoin as they'll see the governments stance on Bitcoin.
Kinda horrid, I'd recommend calling your rep or senator.
December 03, 2017, 10:47:48 PM
Lame excuses for tracking down illicit terrorist and drug cartel actions, they've already banned most of the accused terrorists' hideout countries (syria , palestine, iraq, etc.). Hope that Bill remains there in your country and ours won't follow.
December 03, 2017, 08:59:04 PM
I think I'm going to not worry about it too much because I'll pay taxes on anything I sell for usd and I'm not a criminal and not intentionally trying to hide anything...
December 03, 2017, 08:49:59 PM
I agree that there is a need for regulation of some sort. But hopefully the world wont let the usa dictate this regulations. This would be for the bad of the cryptospace and for the bad of global economy imo.
December 03, 2017, 08:18:25 PM
At some point all governments will start to force exchanges to report user information on a yearly basis to collect taxes from people who would likely never even consider declaring their holdings themselves. Result is that it will make peer to peer markets even more popular than they already are. Regulations will become far stricter than they have ever been, that's for sure, and the aforementioned is something that we have seen a first glimpse of already (referring to Coinbase). It's basically like this, if you don't feed the government by free will, they will take it by force. It's pathetic if you think about it, but that's how it works.
December 03, 2017, 08:00:10 PM
I don't see how people are surprised that if they used Coinbase or other similar services, would get any sort of privacy out of it. The only way to have privacy in this world is if you accept payments in BTC, if you mined the BTC, or if you buy it over the counter, the rest of methods will always leave a track so you better be ready to explain the taxman what you are doing there. I have nothing to hide because all my bitcoins are of legal origin, but I just want to ask:
If you own BTC, but you don't report it and they never know until you sell them to buy some real estate for example, what would they say? You were committing a crime in theory by not reporting that you had BTC, so what happens when you sell them to buy a house and they realize you had them but never reported them??
If you own BTC, but you don't report it and they never know until you sell them to buy some real estate for example, what would they say? You were committing a crime in theory by not reporting that you had BTC, so what happens when you sell them to buy a house and they realize you had them but never reported them??
December 03, 2017, 07:28:57 PM
That's to be expected. There are a lot of people who feel they can evade tax by leaving their money in bitcoin. I think the law is trying to make them realise they could be in trouble by not declaring what crypt I currencies they hold at every point in time. Your best bet to avoid being on the wrong side of the law is to declare how much crypto you have whenever you are converting from cryptocurrency to fiat and vice versa. That way you can be sure of not being charged with tax evasion.
With time the laws governing digital currencies will get clearer and the best approach is to seek the counsel of your financial advisor or lawyer. They are going to use some folks as scapegoats in this and many countries will follow suit in a bid not to miss out on taxes.
With time the laws governing digital currencies will get clearer and the best approach is to seek the counsel of your financial advisor or lawyer. They are going to use some folks as scapegoats in this and many countries will follow suit in a bid not to miss out on taxes.
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