In a Bitcoin Disaster where would you move your Money?

KenR

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Quote from: llanillo on January 28, 2017, 04:29:59 PM

Converting them to fiat can be a good strategy

It is way far from being called a strategy.The most common and the dumbest thing to do is liquidate to fiat.Do you imae how hard the bitcoin woud fall ? Whales say it would take years to pick up again.Imagine the scenario,everyone liquidating their bitcoins.Exchanges taking control over the network ?

Quote from: llanillo on January 28, 2017, 04:29:59 PM

but it won't grow your money in long run so I would prefer to invest some of it in altcoins and a part of it in gold where it will allow me to make some profits in long term and would prefer to buy again when the price of bitcoin drops in near future.

The question is not about making profits jackass.What picture of bitcoin do you even have in your head ? A indestructible source of making money ?

llanillo

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Quote from: BitFinnese on January 28, 2017, 07:37:20 AM

Quote from: HarringtonStark on January 27, 2017, 09:24:40 PM

I will simply exchange it to $ and then keep until the problem is fixed and then I will buy bit coins again.

Simple but strong strategy, cutting losses by shorting and getting profit by buying once a recovery is shown. I would do the same too, I will convert it to my own currency and when someone picked up the broken bitcoin to develop and establish it again. I will gladly be the one to buy it again at the lowest possible price before bitcoin price started to rise again.

Converting them to fiat can be a good strategy but it won't grow your money in long run so I would prefer to invest some of it in altcoins and a part of it in gold where it will allow me to make some profits in long term and would prefer to buy again when the price of bitcoin drops in near future.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on January 27, 2017, 03:23:57 PM

You don't get profits by burning your bitcoins, so it will remain a win-lose outcome. That seems to be the thing that you can't grasp. Folks (well, companies) buy oil not to sell it at the same market for speculation purposes but to process it further into something else (e.g. gasoline) and then either sell what they produced from it to retail consumers (e.g. car owners), or consume the products directly by themselves (e.g. to fill the company's needs in fuel or whatever), without reselling them

Obviously, this will be a win-win situation unlike a zero-sum game

No it's the same analogy.

Oil companies get profits by reselling oil, but the consumer "burns" it, literally and figuratively.

Bitcoin companies get profits by reselling bts (or charging comissions at exchanges for trading), while the btc user might acidentally burn his coins by losing password.

It's the same analogy, it's the same thing. Overall both markets are deflationary (as oil reserves can run out at some point), but still the market itself is a zero sum game, despite being some companies that make consistent profit.

The only way to make consistent profit is to eliminate the risk, and go for a guaranteed income. Comissions are the best bet. While the other users are just zero sum users who just shuffle the money around from 1 hand to the other.

Quote from: deisik on January 27, 2017, 03:23:57 PM

Market being (not) efficient and a zero-sum market are totally different concepts. In practice, there are no efficient markets, but whichever markets do really exist out there, they can be either a zero-sum market (e.g. Bitcoin market mostly) or non-zero sum market (e.g. any commodity market)

All markets with sufficient trading volume are efficient by definition.

Does information exist that can make people guaranteed profits? Sure, but only if they are not public (insider info).

Otherwise all public information is priced in the market, and while sometimes people can score big on trading, it's technically no different than a gambler scoring big.

BitFinnese

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Quote from: HarringtonStark on January 27, 2017, 09:24:40 PM

I will simply exchange it to $ and then keep until the problem is fixed and then I will buy bit coins again.

Simple but strong strategy, cutting losses by shorting and getting profit by buying once a recovery is shown. I would do the same too, I will convert it to my own currency and when someone picked up the broken bitcoin to develop and establish it again. I will gladly be the one to buy it again at the lowest possible price before bitcoin price started to rise again.

HarringtonStark

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I will simply exchange it to $ and then keep until the problem is fixed and then I will buy bit coins again.

romanticks

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I would say to gold (which is close to fiat, but not the same lol), if BTC is in a bad situation I doubt crypto's would be able to maintain a safe market for those trying to move away for bitcoin.. I think moving out until everything settles is the best choice..

Dammitt

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Even if I can not predict such a situation, it would have been very difficult indeed. But I can say that there is no confidence in the market. I think that if bitcoin is a disaster, it will be affected in altcoin. I think it would make sense to watch the reaction of the markets in the future, as it would be reasonable to have the money with us or keep it in the bank. But I think bitcoin will stay for many years, I hope we are wrong in this case.

deisik

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 27, 2017, 02:52:43 PM

Quote from: deisik on January 27, 2017, 02:35:33 PM

What did you not understand in my post about what a zero-sum game is?

If you come to disagree with that, bring forth your arguments. So far you only claim that I don't know what it is and then continue to explain what is an efficient market (how it is written in Wiki). Obviously, this won't do. And while you are trying to look for a flaw in my definition (there's none), don't forget to explain what efficient market has to do at all with a zero-sum game market. Just in case, an oil market is not a zero sum game (since oil is a consumable commodity), and by claiming to the contrary, you pretty much reveal that you don't in fact understand the essence of a zero-sum game

You are such a smartass, but you dont know what you are talking about.

If you refer to the oil as being consumable well then the same way bitcoin is also a consumable, because a lot of coins get burned

You don't get profits by burning your bitcoins, so it will remain a win-lose outcome. That seems to be the thing that you can't grasp. Folks (well, companies) buy oil not to sell it at the same market for speculation purposes but to process it further into something else (e.g. gasoline) and then either sell what they produced from it to retail consumers (e.g. car owners), or consume the products directly by themselves (e.g. to fill the company's needs in fuel or whatever), without reselling them

Obviously, this will be a win-win situation unlike a zero-sum game

Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 27, 2017, 02:52:43 PM

But zero sum has nothing to do with the quality of the asset. It only means that the market is efficient, and that people only shuffle money around to one another, and nothing is produced

Market being (not) efficient and a zero-sum market are totally different concepts. In practice, there are no efficient markets, but whichever markets do really exist out there, they can be either a zero-sum market (e.g. Bitcoin market mostly) or non-zero sum market (e.g. any commodity market)

royalfestus

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I was thinking of what kind of disaster that could really happen to bitcoin. Do you think If any disaster happen today, any of the altcoins wont be troubled, they will lose the trust of customers, media will also attack them and government might call it a crime being involved in it. They might gradually go into extinction. In such a case you need your money back with you, then watch the response of the market.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on January 27, 2017, 02:35:33 PM

What did you not understand in my post about what a zero-sum game is?

If you come to disagree with that, bring forth your arguments. So far you only claim that I don't know what it is and then continue to explain what is an efficient market (how it is written in Wiki). Obviously, this won't do. And while you are trying to look for a flaw in my definition (there's none), don't forget to explain what efficient market has to do at all with a zero-sum game market. Just in case, an oil market is not a zero sum game (since oil is a consumable commodity), and by claiming to the contrary, you pretty much reveal that you don't in fact understand the essence of a zero-sum game

You are such a smartass, but you dont know what you are talking about.

If you refer to the oil as being consumable well then the same way bitcoin is also a consumable, because a lot of coins get burned.

But zero sum has nothing to do with the quality of the asset. It only means that the market is efficient, and that people only shuffle money around to one another, and nothing is produced.

Oil doesnt create anything by itself, nor does bitcoin. Sure they can be used to create things, but that is not an inherent property.

A human life is not a zero sum game, because a human creates more than it consumes, otherwise he would die.

But financial market, are just a giant casino, where the money goes from 1 player to the other. It's the human that is creating the innovation, not the currency.

Bitcoinsummoner

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I think better to move it in fiat or money because i think most the altcoin will be also affected if there are disaster happen with bitcoin..
And i think it is impossible that bitcoin will gone or down in the future since many people are supporting bitcoin. We are just seen the price was reduced that can turn to panic sell if they heard any news aout bitcoin like few weeks ago when the price was crash from $1100.

deisik

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 27, 2017, 02:21:03 PM

Quote from: deisik on January 26, 2017, 04:08:13 PM

If markets were truly efficient, there simply couldn't possibly be 1-2% of total winners (insiders and their kind), 3-7% of occasional winners (those highly experienced traders), and the rest being left for dead holding the ragged bag without handles. A market don't need to be efficient to remain a zero sum game. A zero sum game in simple words is a market where someone's losses are always someone else's profits. All financial markets which trade purely virtual assets (like Bitcoin mostly) are a zero sum game by definition...

A non-zero sum game market is the market where a traded asset can be and is in fact widely used outside the market itself (e.g. oil market)

The oil market is zero sum too, because you cant make money from trading it.

No , you dont know what zero sum is. An efficient market means a market where you cant make money on long term, because all public information is priced in (insiders are insiders).

Which means that it's a casino. YOu go to an exchange to trade, and pay a trading fee. How is that different than a casino with house edge?

The only way to make consistent money is to have insider knowledge, or manipulate the price, which is considered immoral.

What did you not understand in my post about what a zero-sum game is?

If you come to disagree with that, bring forth your arguments. So far you only claim that I don't know what it is and then continue to explain what is an efficient market (how it is written in Wiki). Obviously, this won't do. And while you are trying to look for a flaw in my definition (there's none), don't forget to explain what efficient market has to do at all with a zero-sum game market. Just in case, an oil market is not a zero sum game (since oil is a consumable commodity), and by claiming to the contrary, you pretty much reveal that you don't in fact understand the essence of a zero-sum game

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on January 26, 2017, 04:08:13 PM

If markets were truly efficient, there simply couldn't possibly be 1-2% of total winners (insiders and their kind), 3-7% of occasional winners (those highly experienced traders), and the rest being left for dead holding the ragged bag without handles. A market don't need to be efficient to remain a zero sum game. A zero sum game in simple words is a market where someone's losses are always someone else's profits. All financial markets which trade purely virtual assets (like Bitcoin mostly) are a zero sum game by definition...

A non-zero sum game market is the market where a traded asset can be and is in fact widely used outside the market itself (e.g. oil market)

The oil market is zero sum too, because you cant make money from trading it.

No , you dont know what zero sum is. An efficient market means a market where you cant make money on long term, because all public information is priced in (insiders are insiders).

Which means that it's a casino. YOu go to an exchange to trade, and pay a trading fee. How is that different than a casino with house edge?

The only way to make consistent money is to have insider knowledge, or manipulate the price, which is considered immoral.

deisik

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Quote from: meemiinii on January 27, 2017, 06:00:23 AM

we all know that bitcoin act as the mother of all cryptocurrencies as well as the sprouting altcoins. All cryptocurrencies revolved their worlds around bitcoin. so if such disaster happens and bitcoin will fall off, then what do you think will happen? surely all will fall hard too. imagine a tree without water? do you think it will still live? definitely a no, no

That's bullshit, without beating too much about the bush

If the tree dies, do all its offshoots die too? I guess this is hardly the case. Bitcoin may have given rise to cryptocurrencies being a forefather of them all, but that doesn't mean that they are still depending on it. As I said it before, the demise of Bitcoin, should it happen, may actually free space just like an old tree gives away resources it has accumulated through its long life when it finally dies off

Life is not recyclable, you are born to die

Flanagan

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Fiat, Gold. NEVER to any other altcoins, period.

Gromozeka!

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As life must go on then I will be back to fiat and have a normal life. Because with bitcoin, my life became on a fast pace already because of daily trading but the returns are very worth to see. But I don't think that there is going to be a disaster with bitcoin for this generation but maybe for the next 10-20 years it's either there is or none.

If a disaster happen in 20 years there will be by the time fiat money may already ubiquitous digital currency is a national and a lot to lose faith in cryptocurrency will go to the national currency, or to the most stable as the dollar is now for example.

meemiinii

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we all know that bitcoin act as the mother of all cryptocurrencies as well as the sprouting altcoins. All cryptocurrencies revolved their worlds around bitcoin. so if such disaster happens and bitcoin will fall off, then what do you think will happen? surely all will fall hard too. imagine a tree without water? do you think it will still live? definitely a no, no.

so definitely i would prefer cashing out all of my coins to fiat. Fiat is the only stable one can choose to. then if in time bitcoin will go back to its feet, then thats probably the only time i will buy and invest in bitcoin again. Lets just all hope that bitcoin will never get into this.

deisik

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 26, 2017, 01:13:08 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 25, 2017, 01:20:29 PM

Trust me, volatility is the best friend of a genuine short-term trader. And this is not gambling. In fact, it is easy money (you may want to read more about using long straddles in options, to better understand the idea)

Yes but somehow traders still end up losing money. It looks to me like a zero sum game, becasue of the eficient market hypothesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis

If markets were truly efficient, there simply couldn't possibly be 1-2% of total winners (insiders and their kind), 3-7% of occasional winners (those highly experienced traders), and the rest being left for dead holding the ragged bag without handles. A market don't need to be efficient to remain a zero sum game. A zero sum game in simple words is a market where someone's losses are always someone else's profits. All financial markets which trade purely virtual assets (like Bitcoin mostly) are a zero sum game by definition...

A non-zero sum game market is the market where a traded asset can be and is in fact widely used outside the market itself (e.g. oil market)

error08

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Depends on what disaster? If bitcoin could stand even some crash happen, I will cash out to fiat and buy back at the lower price.
The poll shows people still prefer to fiat as it is an official currency to buy anything including bitcoin.
Divide my investment to some store of value such as bitcoin, gold, fiat money as backup plan if one of them going to crash.

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Quote from: 2double0 on January 26, 2017, 06:46:20 AM

I think that the best option will definitely be converting bitcoins to another altcoin which rises against it, because something arose against such an established currency would definitely be consisting something special that investors and others might be trusting it based on. However, I know that any such Bitcoin disaster is never going to happen.

I'm gladly to invest in altcoins, coins which are closest to bitcoin. I will not close my doors for another opportunities to grab on, using crypto-currency is so beneficial compare to fiat money. I find it more easy than applying for a real job but of course I need to make a lot of effort and hard works.

Topic: In a Bitcoin Disaster where would you move your Money? (Read 7389 times)