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Topic: In crypto everybody pay high tx fee, no matter rich or poor people - page 2. (Read 346 times)

just_Alice

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

If you own 1000 ETH, you pay 10 ETH in fee for fast speed transaction, if you own 100 ETH you pay 1 ETH fee, if you own 10 ETH you pay 0.1 ETH.

In stock market, poor people pay the highest trading fee, where rich people pay low trading fee, 401k probably paid zero trading fee because they own the brokering market, yup, stock market benefit rich people and punish poor people on trading fee alone.

That's not exactly right. You see, the important feature of crypto is that your transaction fee not in any way depends on the amount of money you are sending (unlike transactions with bank cards). Transaction fees are mainly defined by how loaded the market is at the moment with numerous transactions and how much people paid for them.

Sure, if large txns take place at a certain time - to get your priority and make sure your txn is processed fast you're gonna have to pay a lot (like it is happening lately with Bitcoin), but if you're okay to wait - you're free to pay as much as you like, but it might take forever. With crypto, the rule "time is money" applies literally.

Febo

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

In crypto everybody pay high tx fee, no matter rich or poor people

In crypto it depend what cryptocurrency you use that fee you pay. Monero fees are 0.2 cent. And with more and more transactions fees will only decline. Crypto will be fine!

iv4n

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Fees are high, no doubt about that! But this is not the first time we encounter with high fees, that happened before, we had similar drama as we have now, but things calmed after some time! I think the same will happen again, after little disturbance we will see normal fees as before!

I agree with the headline: "In crypto everybody pay high tx fee, no matter rich or poor people"! Yes, in crypto we have to pay fees, but in crypto, we have a choice to spend more money for faster transactions, or to pay less and wait for transactions to get confirmed! At least we have some choice, and you can choose to pay really low and wait for days, or however YOU want it, there's no administrator to tell you your limits, what you can and what you can't do... you are free!

iamsheikhadil

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Quote from: kaya11 on February 14, 2021, 08:27:23 AM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

I never have paid 10 percent of my tx fees of my total eth when withdrawing. That is way too high. Where did you get these numbers? Just recently selling eth and all is fine. I have been charge less that 1 percent of my earnings in mining.

I don't think he actually got those numbers as in he is suggesting that this type of fees taking should be enabled like taking a fee percentage for every transaction based on its volume, which I don't think should be implemented because that would be a bad idea. However, OP should note that there are actually banks and other services and payment providers which offer transaction facilities based on fiat and charge on the basis of transaction amount, which leads to high charges and people start to slowly drift from such payment providers.

kaya11

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

777Jolami

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

Yes, this is crypto - fairness, transparency is kept for everyone, regardless of rich or poor or any class of society. There are more options for people to speed up, which is also featured because gas will be the driving force to provide the miners with their benefit. Many people complain about the high gas fees for some platforms like ETH but that is really what is needed to create balance, enjoyable for everyone. It is featured and also independent raw material for this market. Congratulations for that.

Princejebs

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

How do you even come to conclusions with such transactions fees on Ethereum network. I am ignorant about stock market fee since brokers differ but I do know that stock market can be compare to cryptocurrency, this is why we are park of decentralization.
Ethereum fee depends on how busy the network is and trust me, u can send a 1000ETH with a fee below $40 during weekdays, you should do more research before coming to conclusions and misleading others.

Leviathan.007

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If you are talking about little transaction, such as -10 bucks transactions, yes, currently this won't be fair enough for people to send little amount of money using bitcoin network. Because, due to the current situation, the network is crowded and since transactions with higher fee will be confirmed first, you need to pay more amount of money to get you transaction confirmed. But for people who send huge amount of money using this network,everything is fine because they spend less than 10 bucks when they are transferring even more than one million dollars.

iamsheikhadil

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So you are against it or for it?

I think, in crypto no one really knows who's rich and who's poor because of decentralization and no regulation unless the person reveals their own portfolio to the world haha. Volume of transaction doesn't impact the transaction fee that will be charged for the transaction, and hence, everyone pays equal fee and one who pays the highest fee will get their transaction confirmed in fewer amount of time than others and I see it as a good thing

carlisle1

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

If you own 1000 ETH, you pay 10 ETH in fee for fast speed transaction, if you own 100 ETH you pay 1 ETH fee, if you own 10 ETH you pay 0.1 ETH.

Well that's for fast transaction but why Rush if you can at least Use the lowest fee and wait for a while?
I can't see the logic for people that is wanting to rush withdrawal/transaction when they have options , Not unless this is an urgent then do as what you say.

Quote

In stock market, poor people pay the highest trading fee, where rich people pay low trading fee, 401k probably paid zero trading fee because they own the brokering market, yup, stock market benefit rich people and punish poor people on trading fee alone.

That's the difference of Stocks in Crypto trading , that is same reason why i believe that many stock traders are now transferring in crypto as they are seeing the fairness and potential.

verita1

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At this time we can realize that ETH has high fees, some argue that it is due to network congestion. That is a setback that some of us suffer from who have to turn to other altcoins in search of saving the cost of fees. That could be a reason to invest in another altcoin that offers all the benefits of ethereum and a bit more.
While hodl bitcoin my P2P exchanges with ethereum are suspended and I have replaced it with dash.

wxa7115

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Quote from: avikz on February 12, 2021, 06:42:24 AM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

Lol! Since when ETH transaction fees are fixed on a percentage? It entirely depends on the network. So there's no guarantee that everyone is paying same fees! You can indeed set a manual fee for your transaction. But if the fee is too low the transaction may not get confirmed.

Also it is not correct to compare a regulated stock market with a decentralized digital currency system. In stock market, brokers act as a middleman and they decide the fees dor each one of us! In ETH, no one other than the network controls the transactions and fees! The miners can't have manual preferences! These are the basics bro!

This is one of the big selling points of cryptocurrencies, no matter how much money you send you are still only going to pay a fee that depends entirely on how busy the network is, this has its own set of problems of course, for example if you want to send a very low amount of money when the network is busy then most likely the fees are going to be higher than the amount of money that you want to send.

Many people do not like this but it is simply supply and demand, the amount of space in each block is limited, which means the supply is limited, and if the demand increases dramatically then is obvious there is going to be a competition among those that want to send a transaction to get it confirmed quicker and that means an increase in the fees.

salty

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Quote from: bittraffic on February 13, 2021, 02:13:13 AM

The only transactions that are higher these days are the ones in the defi platform. It's definitely high there than sending tokens to another wallet. It wouldn't be worth if you are making transactions on Uni while you only have few amounts. This is only for ETH though.

Making transactions using other tokens like BTC or Tron, ain't that high though. There are ways to make it cheaper, it's not so lengthy process but does the job as long as the person you make a transaction with allows it.

Yes, the commissions in the Ethereum network are too high. When sending from wallet to wallet, I paid $ 10 today. When making a swap, the fee is $ 25. Based on this, we can conclude that the ethereum network is really not for the poor. I can't comment on the relative stock market because I have never bought or sold anything there.

Broly46

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Quote from: AicecreaME on February 13, 2021, 01:34:21 AM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

Transaction fee depends on what platform you are going to use. There are platforms that has fixed transaction fee and there are also platforms that are basing your tf on bitcoin's current price value and the amount you are going to process. I think there's no specific percentage on ETH as well. You can adjust the transaction fee depending on the wallet you are using, but always keep in mind that too much low transaction fee can lead to slow and even unprocessed transactions.

In my experience, those platforms that has fixed tf process much faster than those of that you can adjust. The miners prioritized the transactions of those who paid higher. In simpler manner, you can refer to those who pay higher tf as VIP's. The higher the tf, the faster the speed of transactions to be processed.

Regarding stock market, there's no use to compare it to bitcoin since we know for a fact that stocks are centralized and are regulated by the government (especifically SEC) while bitcoin is decentralize in nature. There are brokers in stock market which has to be paid by the investors while in cryptocurrency, there are only wallets and networks.

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Do you think it’s fine to compare with gold? Buying gold has always associated with large transaction fee, paper gold for instance are charged high fee for both bid or ask, paper silver are charged even higher transaction fee for the reason it’s highly volatile, 20% trading fee for silver trading alone, for clarify, yup if you buy 100 ounces silver you gonna pay 20%, if you buy 10 ounces it’s 20%, or 1 ounce it’s 20%, it doesn’t matter rich or poor people who buy gold/silver they all pay the high transaction fee.

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Quote from: bittraffic on February 13, 2021, 02:13:13 AM

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Yup, they can be cheaper when doing it in a dodgy fashion, but the risk of getting scammed is also much higher, it’s always the trick used by con man to lure victims to their cheap bitcoin, as good as send the coin and get double in return. I’m sure tron are associated with scam too, some people have their fund locked on the tron network, and they can’t do anything.

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bittraffic

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AicecreaME

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Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

Transaction fee depends on what platform you are going to use. There are platforms that has fixed transaction fee and there are also platforms that are basing your tf on bitcoin's current price value and the amount you are going to process. I think there's no specific percentage on ETH as well. You can adjust the transaction fee depending on the wallet you are using, but always keep in mind that too much low transaction fee can lead to slow and even unprocessed transactions.

In my experience, those platforms that has fixed tf process much faster than those of that you can adjust. The miners prioritized the transactions of those who paid higher. In simpler manner, you can refer to those who pay higher tf as VIP's. The higher the tf, the faster the speed of transactions to be processed.

Regarding stock market, there's no use to compare it to bitcoin since we know for a fact that stocks are centralized and are regulated by the government (especifically SEC) while bitcoin is decentralize in nature. There are brokers in stock market which has to be paid by the investors while in cryptocurrency, there are only wallets and networks.

Broly46

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Quote from: Gozie51 on February 12, 2021, 03:15:55 PM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

In stock market, poor people pay the highest trading fee, where rich people pay low trading fee,

This is rather a confusing statement and reading post here, I think any others are confused too. From that above about stock market, how will both rich and poor not pay same fees in their transaction or stock market dealings? Are you not talking of shares because that is where I'm taking it from. A companies share for instance is priced at same price for rich and poor , so the fees for or charge ain't the same you mean? to pay for the broker? I think it should not have any difference except you explain more what you mean.

Yup, I’m totally fine to make it to laymen terms, the reason ETF is found, is all due to individual investor having to pay high trading fee on their small stake purchase, many small retail investors are resorting to ETF, to get indirect exposure on stock market, but it create another problem, there is small ETF and big ETF on the market, we are looking at big ETF beating small ETF, since big ETF has more fund they could get better trading fee advantage, big retail trader are rushing to big ETF and big ETF are blocking small retail to get into the big ETF, it create all sort of problem, only the rich can get better deal, but in the crypto, I don’t think it make much difference whether it is big or small.

Broly46

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Quote from: ivankoh on February 12, 2021, 11:56:45 AM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:33 AM

If your comparisons are talking about the fairness that the crypto market versus the stock market. Yes, with an anonymous, uniform and fair distribution for all owners wanting to buy or transfer. There is no other disadvantage between holders or traders. It all depends on how fast or slow it is. Roughly, you have to pay a higher fee for a fast transfer. It still bears a bit of an imprint like internet banking apps for fiat transfers.

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There is no doubt about it, transaction fee are tied to the trader consent, in reality, many people depend on the custodian exchange or p2p to trade their crypto, where they doesn’t have much choice but to pay high fee, there is no doubt some of them going for OTC to get a lot of bitcoin, and they would want their bitcoin fast too, all of them will pay high tx fee, there is simply very few instance for people to pay low tx fee, if you transfer your crypto to your own wallet then yup you would prefer lower fee, what if you want to sell it to another trader? The only answer is as fast as possible, nobody want to wait to buy and sell it.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on February 12, 2021, 01:53:45 PM

Quote from: Broly46 on February 12, 2021, 11:24:39 AM

Back in the day fees were much much lower because fewer people were using Bitcoin. Transaction fees were a handful of sats, regardless of whether you sent 0.1 BTC or 10,000 BTC. That's possible even today, when you manage to catch a calm day or are patient enough.

Being "rich" or "poor" has nothing to do with it: The cost of a transaction is only depending on the amount of inputs, rather than the monetary value. If you have a lot of inputs because you got your coins from faucets for example, sending 0.1 BTC may be much more expensive than sending 10,000 BTC if the latter has been consolidated into a single input.

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That is very fortunate bitcoin mining has been profitable or barely above the mining cost for all these while, I can’t imagine miners would still be profitable to mine at 0.001% tx fee or even much lower fee, but the block reward was good that might off set the low tx fee reward. Yup the tx fee is not based on percentage, but trader has the need to fast speed transaction, when you sell your coin to another trader they would want it as fast as possible or they would quickly reject the trade or make dispute.

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Quote from: dothebeats on February 12, 2021, 02:48:59 PM

ETH fees don't work like that, although I get your point. But I think stock market trading fees have been restructured several times already in favor of those traders that aren't big enough just yet. Here in my country, they get 0.05-0.1% trade fees 0er successful trade, and the giant dudes aren't exempted from that. As for crypto, by default, users would pay almost the same amount of fees at a given time. Then again, the flexibility of fees in crypto makes it so that a user can choose to pay more or less in feea which, stock market trading fees don't have.

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This is nice you can get the point, I talk to some of my friends, they all agree trading fee on stock market is very expensive for small trader like them, they all resort to ETF where they could democratise the trading fee, of course big fund and big whales does have advantages over retail traders on stock market. I would say the same for tax benefit too, low income people paid the highest taxes while the rich pay nearly no taxes.

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Quote from: el kaka22 on February 12, 2021, 03:03:15 PM

Quote from: avikz on February 12, 2021, 06:42:24 AM

Yeah that person has no idea how the fee works at all, by that logic some people who want to send 1 billion dollars worth in ETH would have to end up paying 10 million dollars in ETH fee and thats not true at all. Of course how big your transaction is does have to do with fee a bit, not a lot and only a small portion because you are moving a more of it than compared to what would be otherwise, but it is like maybe 3-4 dollar difference at most.

So, let's say you want to move 100 dollars worth of ETH and it is 50 dollars (unfortunately), when you want to move 1 million dollars it is still 55 at most maybe 60 since time changed but that's it, it is not going to be huge difference, same for 100 bucks to 1 million and same for 100 bucks to a billion, it is just doesn't change at all. Stock market and crypto are nothing alike but people who do not know how things work will keep on writing these things to create misinformation.

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It’s totally fine, I would accept any criticism, I would thank you if you can point out my errors.

On your quote Of course how big your transaction is does have to do with fee a bit, not a lot and only a small portion because you are moving a more of it than compared to what would be otherwise, but it is like maybe 3-4 dollar difference at most.

That doesn’t sound very possible when you’re trying to trade your coins to another traders, when you use p2p exchange or you use any custodian exchange, the fee will be varies a lot, the more you trade the higher the fee, trading 1000 ETH definitely would incur higher tx fee, I’m sure it would be the same on OTC too.

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Gozie51

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