In re Bitcoin Devs are idiots - page 8.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: markm on March 11, 2013, 11:34:31 PM

Quote from: behindtext on March 11, 2013, 11:10:18 PM

seems like a pretty clear-cut case of insufficient test coverage.

when testing code, it is especially important to test the corner cases. this sounds like one of those corners, even without looking at the details of the issue.

Yeah but apparently bitcoin millionaires cannot afford to get test suites made so it kind of sits there waiting for hard working coders and developers to find some spare time to work on such things.

-MarkM-

Quote

15:49 gavinandresen ACTION resists the urge to talk about max block size??? must??? get??? work??? done...

Spare me the circlejerking. If there's time to be flaming Bitcoin users because they're not using Bitcoin "correctly" then there is time to stfu, swallow cox and work the testnet to the bone.

markm

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Quote from: behindtext on March 11, 2013, 11:10:18 PM

seems like a pretty clear-cut case of insufficient test coverage.

when testing code, it is especially important to test the corner cases. this sounds like one of those corners, even without looking at the details of the issue.

Yeah but apparently bitcoin millionaires cannot afford to get test suites made so it kind of sits there waiting for hard working coders and developers to find some spare time to work on such things.

-MarkM-

behindtext

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seems like a pretty clear-cut case of insufficient test coverage.

when testing code, it is especially important to test the corner cases. this sounds like one of those corners, even without looking at the details of the issue.

conv3rsion

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on March 11, 2013, 10:53:21 PM

Reality check. Seriously.

You know what, talk is fucking cheap. You can bitch all day, or you can put some resources into pushing forward this little experiment of ours. You think the code sucks, or that there are painfully obvious flaws like unencrypted wallet files that go unaddressed for way too long? Fix it.

It's completely open.

Stop bitching, and fix it.

justusranvier

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on March 11, 2013, 10:53:21 PM

The difference between the former and the latter is that I didn't say anything then, because back then nobody of any consequence gave two shits about your little bullshit project here.

Then do something about it. Your business depends on this infrastructure so since you're so big you should be able to spare some investment into fixing the problems, not just identifying them.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2013, 10:40:06 PM

Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 10:23:58 PM

Smaller window, still possible. and BTW freshmen in software engineering knows that you shouldn't push a change without proper inspection and testing. that is what the testnet is for. My knowledge doesn't matter. Even if I was a monkey. What they did in 0.8 is IDIOCY.

You do realize that the flaw was in 0.7 right. Of course you tested this in v0.7 on testnet six months and posted a bug report right? v0.7 has always had this flaw. It wasn't detected or reported by anyone.

And the REASON it was neither detected nor reported is that some idiots THOUGHT it was a good idea to come up with a magic number and limit everything to 250k.

Just as SOMEONE thought it was a good idea to run Bitcoin with a plaintext wallet for 2 years.

The difference between the former and the latter is that I didn't say anything then, because back then nobody of any consequence gave two shits about your little bullshit project here.

And in fact, you probably to this day think running the wallet plaintext was ok.

Reality check. Seriously.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 10:23:58 PM

Smaller window, still possible. and BTW freshmen in software engineering knows that you shouldn't push a change without proper inspection and testing. that is what the testnet is for. My knowledge doesn't matter. Even if I was a monkey. What they did in 0.8 is IDIOCY.

You do realize that the flaw was in 0.7 right. Of course you tested this in v0.7 on testnet six months and posted a bug report right? v0.7 has always had this flaw. It wasn't detected or reported by anyone.

gyverlb

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Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 10:23:58 PM

Smaller window, still possible. and BTW freshmen in software engineering knows that you shouldn't push a change without proper inspection and testing.

And true engineers in computer science know that no amount of inspection and testing is enough when you want something perfect. Lookup "formal verification" and see for yourself that nobody gives any guarantee in the software industry because it would be so damn costly.

lophie

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Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: gyverlb on March 11, 2013, 10:19:03 PM

Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 09:50:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Only coins moved in the last 3 or 4 hours are in any danger at all. And most likely those transactions will be completely confirmed soon when the miners all switch to 0.7 and the two chains converge.

Till now 12 blocks have passed. which is alot. Don't belittle the problem if I dined in mez grill 1 hours ago paying with Bitcoin. Then an hour later I double spent the coins with a v0.7 bitcoind.

Won't work. All the 0.7 bitcoind node would have seen your previous transaction and would reject the new one. And some people here call the bitcoin devs idiots? They don't even know how the network works.

Smaller window, still possible. and BTW freshmen in software engineering knows that you shouldn't push a change without proper inspection and testing. that is what the testnet is for. My knowledge doesn't matter. Even if I was a monkey. What they did in 0.8 is IDIOCY.

gyverlb

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Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 09:50:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Only coins moved in the last 3 or 4 hours are in any danger at all. And most likely those transactions will be completely confirmed soon when the miners all switch to 0.7 and the two chains converge.

Till now 12 blocks have passed. which is alot. Don't belittle the problem if I dined in mez grill 1 hours ago paying with Bitcoin. Then an hour later I double spent the coins with a v0.7 bitcoind.

Won't work. All the 0.7 bitcoind node would have seen your previous transaction and would reject the new one. And some people here call the bitcoin devs idiots? They don't even know how the network works.

Severian

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Quote from: lophie on March 11, 2013, 10:13:19 PM

Banks are playing another league. This is the pro league.

Banks only play that league because they have the guns and the force of law. Recognizing that thugs are good at what they do doesn't mean that it has to be admired or emulated.

NegativeNancy

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on March 11, 2013, 09:52:03 PM

I don't care and I don't want to hear stupid stories and even more stupid justification. This sort of incompetence is not acceptable for a half billion dollar thing.

If you earnestly believe this is the best you can do, leave.

That's not how it works. If you don't think it's acceptable, you either help fix the problem (something tells me you're not up to that) or YOU leave. If you think the devs are idiots, then I guess the biggest idiot is you, for investing in their work. Toodles.

lophie

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Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: Severian on March 11, 2013, 10:07:39 PM

Quote from: meebs on March 11, 2013, 10:05:11 PM

ladies and gentlemen:

this is why the "bankers" make a LOT of money. they are EXTREMELY good at what they do

Manipulate governments and markets, spread disinformation through the media and rig the currency to their benefit?

Ya, bankers are experts.

Don't forget debt re-hypothication and lemon dancing debt between banks for interest. We are quite pissed off with what is happening but make no mistake sir. Banks are playing another league. This is the pro league.

Severian

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Quote from: meebs on March 11, 2013, 10:05:11 PM

ladies and gentlemen:

this is why the "bankers" make a LOT of money. they are EXTREMELY good at what they do

Manipulate governments and markets, spread disinformation through the media and rig the currency to their benefit?

Ya, bankers are experts.

Eiii

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Eiii on March 11, 2013, 09:33:34 PM

Quote from: Severian on March 11, 2013, 09:13:47 PM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on March 11, 2013, 09:11:06 PM

Let's try and stick to the topic.

The topic is you calling a group pf people idiots that are doing something you can't do.

Right now there's no question that they deserve to be called idiots. What's happening now was easily preventable and shouldn't have ever happened under any circumstances.

It's actually fucking amazing that this is first MAJOR bug in 4 years.

I don't disagree, but it's disappointing and discouraging that apparently this situation-- which is an important, obvious one!-- wasn't tested before the changes were rolled out. The best thing that can come from this is hopefully developers will be much more careful about these kinds of changes in the future.

meebs

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ladies and gentlemen:

this is why the "bankers" make a LOT of money. they are EXTREMELY good at what they do and WAY more money is on the line every hour vs what bitcoin deals with in a year.

lophie

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Unlimited Free Crypto

Or keep your ideas to yourself and the forums. DONT SUBMIT (to the code base) THEM

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: ldrgn on March 11, 2013, 09:43:13 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

that this is first MAJOR bug in 4 years.

Except for the integer overflow bug and all those CVEs, sure. You can't even say "this is the first prolifically visible major bug in 4 years" as the integer overflow bug holds that title.

Actually, to be more precise: this is a major bug rather than yet another opportunity for the disgusting circlejerk of patting each other on the back precisely because I said something.

I don't care and I don't want to hear stupid stories and even more stupid justification. This sort of incompetence is not acceptable for a half billion dollar thing.

If you earnestly believe this is the best you can do, leave.

lophie

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Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: ?? on ??

Only coins moved in the last 3 or 4 hours are in any danger at all. And most likely those transactions will be completely confirmed soon when the miners all switch to 0.7 and the two chains converge.

Till now 12 blocks have passed. which is alot. Don't belittle the problem if I dined in mez grill 1 hours ago paying with Bitcoin. Then an hour later I double spent the coins with a v0.7 bitcoind. The transaction WILL NOT BE REVERSE ABLE as it got buried in a block and WILL be buried in two VERY soon, and I would SUCCESSFULLY pulled off double spent without the need for 51% of the network to make it "possible"

Good luck promising the people this will never happen again and convincing the new comers that txs are irreversible. The mass follow adoption it is the few who follows over deep understanding and non-inflected belief in the system. You just lost the majority of the "normal" users today. Make no mistake about it, this IS the new nose dive of Bitcoin.

And how do you think this will look since we just passed the all time high..... expect news flashes... "It happened again" and "The future money that keeps on falling whenever it got high!".

ldrgn

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Quote from: ?? on ??

that this is first MAJOR bug in 4 years.

Except for the integer overflow bug and all those CVEs, sure. You can't even say "this is the first prolifically visible major bug in 4 years" as the integer overflow bug holds that title.

Topic: In re Bitcoin Devs are idiots - page 8. (Read 25449 times)