those mods who did the group buy are doing their twist and turns when giving a refund, when they need us for their group buy they beg us and makes all the false promises to enticed us to sign up for their group buy. most of them had got their refunds from yifu. Majority of us simply just need a full refund.
some may have been whore into the DIY designs offer by them but that is not our problem, that is your problem with them, not those who did not sign up for any of your DIY Kits or setups and this are the ones who should get their refunds now.
Full Refund Now.
Topic: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 11. (Read 186720 times)
Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.
Or, you know, not holding it at all. Like me, for example. I placed my B2 orders on February 3rd and hadn't heard a peep from them until a few days ago.
Refunds coming from the address that Yifu insinuated no control over.
No word at all to the reasons behind the 11+ week DELAY on early orders.
Then he claims that upset customers are greedy and affecting his chi?
Wow.
No word at all to the reasons behind the 11+ week DELAY on early orders.
Then he claims that upset customers are greedy and affecting his chi?
Wow.
I honestly cannot see what Yifu can do to appease everyone after all this with respect to refunds after building a business based around using peoples money like an interest free loan, when evidence suggests fraudulent activity, but i'd suggest a detailed and accurate statement of accounts with supporting evidence is the only fair way to deal with this, and would go a long way to keeping the 'trolls', as he calls his customers, at bay.
It's concerning that his comments are neither detailed, supported and are largely non-commital, as such few believe his turn of events.
Yifu, straight-up mate, you know right from wrong, no one doubts that much, but you are going to have to provide a detailed timeline with evidence based on communications and literature from TSMC, and customs dockets, all of which you blatantly have in your possession to prevent this from getting messy.
The fact that vocal discontent involving criminal proceedings and litigation is the only way to provoke a reaction and what appears to be half-truths is very worrying as it appears you don't want to commit in writing what could be used against you.
If you are being honest as you claim, you really should have nothing to hide, if you try to lie, you will slip up, it's inevitable, and it's already looking that way.
Sort it out mate, and pronto. as so far it does not wash, and this is more than the odd thousand dollars someone could just remain angry about. The beef surrounds people's livelihoods, you stand to ruin people.
It's concerning that his comments are neither detailed, supported and are largely non-commital, as such few believe his turn of events.
Yifu, straight-up mate, you know right from wrong, no one doubts that much, but you are going to have to provide a detailed timeline with evidence based on communications and literature from TSMC, and customs dockets, all of which you blatantly have in your possession to prevent this from getting messy.
The fact that vocal discontent involving criminal proceedings and litigation is the only way to provoke a reaction and what appears to be half-truths is very worrying as it appears you don't want to commit in writing what could be used against you.
If you are being honest as you claim, you really should have nothing to hide, if you try to lie, you will slip up, it's inevitable, and it's already looking that way.
Sort it out mate, and pronto. as so far it does not wash, and this is more than the odd thousand dollars someone could just remain angry about. The beef surrounds people's livelihoods, you stand to ruin people.
Not sure if this makes any difference, but since folks are fascinated with fiat... the B2 avalon's were $1.5K BTC equivalent at the time of sale. B3 were $5K and $7.5K equivalent... and there is a running thread on how B2 machines broke even (in BTC for the those confused) a couple of weeks back.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-batch-2-break-even-283735
When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it. The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks. Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.
there were complications for B2 and B3 refunding for example - those in group buys and those that have purchased pre orders from others at a higher price. they would get screwed by a regular refund. best thing to do was to keep his end of agreement. then this thread wouldn't even exist. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-batch-2-break-even-283735
When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it. The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks. Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.
Not sure if this makes any difference, but since folks are fascinated with fiat... the B2 avalon's were $1.5K BTC equivalent at the time of sale. B3 were $5K and $7.5K equivalent... and there is a running thread on how B2 machines broke even (in BTC for the those confused) a couple of weeks back.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-batch-2-break-even-283735
When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it. The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks. Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-batch-2-break-even-283735
When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it. The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks. Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.
Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.
+ 1 Graham's numberYifu please don't kill your business by greed, simple compensate unreasonably high price for B3 Avalons.
So where is my compensation for the issue with my 2 Avalon Batch 2 machines??
As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...
Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.
As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...
Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.
Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.
So where is my compensation for the issue with my 2 Avalon Batch 2 machines??
As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...
Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.
As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...
Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.
Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.
Yifu i really really appreciate you communicating... 
Same here. I hope it continues.
Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.
What situation to understand? You promised 10 weeks delivery and you failed. There is no situation. You sent zefir's batch 2 of chips (batch 1 and 2 were ordered the same day!) a few weeks after first batch. There is simply no excuse for that.
Yeah it's so weird. I was in batch 3 which hasn't arrived yet. All of zefir's batches (8? 10?) were ordered within about a one week window. So we figured they'd all be delivered in about a one week window. Not that the two orders arrive and then no other orders ever arrive. It's just bizarre.
what is with trade ins?
Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.
What situation to understand? You promised 10 weeks delivery and you failed. There is no situation. You sent zefir's batch 2 of chips (batch 1 and 2 were ordered the same day!) a few weeks after first batch. There is simply no excuse for that.
Will there be compensation for delivery of chips wich are too late?
Maybe 0.025 BTC/chip?
Maybe 0.025 BTC/chip?
I suggest we refer this whole matter to the Bitcoin Foundation. Using foul language does not help. We need a third party to arbitrate for us.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3054081
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3054081
Ive seen Coindesk refer to individual posts before, so im sure this matter will be further published. Also, LetsTalkBitcoin would im sure, welcome a spokesperson to talk about whats being played out on this thread.
If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.
Our group requested a Refund on August 4th via Avalon Support Ticket site.
You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
Quote
"Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.
Our group requested a Refund on August 4th via Avalon Support Ticket site.
You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
Quote
What Does the Rule Cover?
It applies to most goods a customer orders from the seller by mail, telephone, fax, or on the Internet.
It does not matter how the merchandise is advertised, how the customer pays, or who initiates the contact.
What You Must Do If You Learn You Cannot Ship on Time
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.
If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.
Some businesses adopt internal deadlines that are earlier than those set by the Rule to ensure that their delay notices give all customers a meaningful opportunity to consent to the delay. If businesses fail to ship or give delay notifications by their internal deadlines, they automatically cancel the orders and make refunds.
In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.
What a First Delay Option Notice Must Say
In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:
a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.
When You Must Cancel an Order
You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.
It applies to most goods a customer orders from the seller by mail, telephone, fax, or on the Internet.
It does not matter how the merchandise is advertised, how the customer pays, or who initiates the contact.
What You Must Do If You Learn You Cannot Ship on Time
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.
If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.
Some businesses adopt internal deadlines that are earlier than those set by the Rule to ensure that their delay notices give all customers a meaningful opportunity to consent to the delay. If businesses fail to ship or give delay notifications by their internal deadlines, they automatically cancel the orders and make refunds.
In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.
What a First Delay Option Notice Must Say
In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:
a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.
When You Must Cancel an Order
You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.
I suggest we refer this whole matter to the Bitcoin Foundation. Using foul language does not help. We need a third party to arbitrate for us.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3054081
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3054081
Dear jackass aka Yifu,
BitSyncom, It would be very nice if you added my trade-ins to my store account instead of sitting on your ass on this issue for months. While you are at it finish adding other Avalon users trade-ins and process them. I have no fucking clue why you take so long on this. I've PM'd, Texted, created tickets, sent emails, sent SMS, called.
Address the issue and stop acting like a bitch.
BitSyncom, It would be very nice if you added my trade-ins to my store account instead of sitting on your ass on this issue for months. While you are at it finish adding other Avalon users trade-ins and process them. I have no fucking clue why you take so long on this. I've PM'd, Texted, created tickets, sent emails, sent SMS, called.
Address the issue and stop acting like a bitch.
By the way... the refund form is an invitation for scammers. Before i had read the avalon news i already had confirmation emails asking for confirmation to refund 2 of our batches to another persons Address. I have to clear this tomorrow, of course i didnt fall for this but i hope no one other does in the heat. The batch 3 miner form was better i think.
well, phishing/requests have been coming in for a long time now, but this is why I sent out a email to all the orders owners emails address to confirm the refund is indeed happening, or not.
The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.
I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels. Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell. The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side. All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk. Can we please maintain a level head in all of this? Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds. That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation. Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?
The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.
Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.
Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.
Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?
Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?
We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.
Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.
I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels. Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell. The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side. All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk. Can we please maintain a level head in all of this? Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds. That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation. Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?
The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.
Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.
Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.
Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?
Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?
We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.
Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?
Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,
The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.
While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).
Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.
You still haven't answered to my question. zefir ordered the chips in april. Where are the 10 weeks? Third batch was ordered on 20 April. 10 weeks means 29 June! So? Why haven't you shipped according to your shitty terms?
Successfully received 2 other refunds. So now 3 chip batches of our groupbuy are refunded. Still waiting for the other members to get back to me and telling me their wish.
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