Incorrect Bitcore(BTX) Circulating Supply on CMC - page 5.

minestro

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Bitcore (BTX) - The Future is Now

Quote from: SimpleCoiner on November 19, 2017, 09:34:47 PM

It is what it is: Option 1

Sooner or later a lot of that coins will appear in the market, affecting the market numbers (price, volumes...). Any other option is absurd.

I don't think we have to "obey" CMC ... Who are they ? To me they are acting this way due some hidden interests, unknown for the rest us. What we have to do is to listen the BitCore community.

At the end, if CMC doesn't want to be rational, we can choose to obey or to adapt ourselves to the new situation considering more options, including a Bitcore fork to undo transactions for unclaimed BTC coins returning them to circulation again (via more airdrops, or any other method) to satisfy these new CMC rules "made expressly for us".

I'm not in crypto to obey arbitrary decissions from third parties, so it should be a BitCore community and developers decission.

We can decide what we want, but not what CMC puts on their page. But if you wanna go toe to toe with the no.1 place to go for information about crypto currencies, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't like it too, but trying to compete with CMC about credibility is IMHO a battle you're going to loose. We need to find a compromise in a diplomatic way, at least for starters. What doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer option 1. 1 would be tje ideal solution.

keyzersoze

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Activity: 476

Merit: 266

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 08:52:29 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:37:45 PM

Really good thinking man... love it!
Yep, I think we need to push for option #1 till they obey.
Too bad CMC has become so big. Maybe we (dev team) need to start flashing the true circulation in font 144 in every communication, on the website and in every platform they can so that it become obvious to everyone that CMC is falsy representing BTX.

Not a good idea

The only thing that would happen if we promote aggressively informations opposing the ones on CMC would be the people would start calling BTX a scam, because it's promoting untrue informations. So ATM as bad as it sounds, we would have to obey the decisions of CMC and hope we can make our case the best we can.

But we aren't promoting untrue information. We have the numbers and tx's to back up our claim, according to the way all other coins circulating supply is calculated. If anybody asks.
I haven't heard a single legitimate reason or counter argument from cmc, or from anybody else, why this should be any different.

keyzersoze

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Activity: 476

Merit: 266

Quote from: SimpleCoiner on November 19, 2017, 09:34:47 PM

It is what it is: Option 1

Sooner or later a lot of that coins will appear in the market, affecting the market numbers (price, volumes...). Any other option is absurd.

I don't think we have to "obey" CMC ... Who are they ? To me they are acting this way due some hidden interests, unknown for the rest us. What we have to do is to listen the BitCore community.

At the end, if CMC doesn't want to be rational, we can choose to obey or to adapt ourselves to the new situation considering more options, including a Bitcore fork to undo transactions for unclaimed BTC coins returning them to circulation again (via more airdrops, or any other method) to satisfy these new CMC rules "made expressly for us".

I'm not in crypto to obey arbitrary decissions from third parties, so it should be a BitCore community and developers decission.

THIS!!!!!!

keyzersoze

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Activity: 476

Merit: 266

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:37:45 PM

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 08:27:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:58:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 07:43:50 PM

But BTX is not a fork.
Bitcoin Cash is a fork, therefore CMC has some kind of insurance in the circulation. And I'm certain that because of the vast exposure BCH got, they knew people would be more inclined to claim their free BCH.

Totally agree with you that over time, ppl will claim their free 0.5BTX, but nobody can predict the future. 6 months in crypto is like 6 years in real life, and I'm not convinced many people will try to claim their BTX past Q1-2018.

As a large BTX holder, I would love the see BTX climb in the top 30/50 quickly, but if they don't reflect the accurate circulation, so be it. This doesn't remove anything in the trust in the dev team and the bright future I see for Bitcore. A lower reflected circulation means scarcity for ppl, and this will put pressure on the price for the upside.

If there was a way to know the claimed BTX for the virtually forked coins portion of the circulation, that would be ideal. Since option #4 is not possible, if we can get CMC to reflect the true circulation, in that case option #2 is a good compromise.

Two points are bothering me. Scarcity, yes somehow. But it's countered by the less exposure the coin gets while being kept low because of the low capitalization.
And don't you think that the simple fact, that anyone looking at those numbers is always going to see those ghost coins and the large gap between total and circulating supply, and therefore is spreading only fud? IMHO CMC could make such rules but they would have to make them upfront and not afterwards.

With regards to scarcity, what's important is the $ market cap. I believe the dev team sees BTX in the top 10 (Steve said so in telegram today). If so, the market cap would at approx $1.8B. A reflected circulation of 16M means a $112 price. A circulation that excludes the virtually forked coins means a $225 price. Fewer coins in circulation mean scarcity, which means higher price.

But scarcity is only scarcity if the demand is there

I get where you're going, but there are 2 factors in determining the price and that's not only supply but also demand. And the demand is rising with the exposure, which actually hugely determined by media coverage which is very influenced by the standing of a currency on coinmarketcap.
There are many facets to this discussion. Like if you choose option 2 what happens if the BTC whales start clamining their coins and the number of claimed coins is let's say about 1 Mio and if that is not being reflected by the circulating supply? Not listing 1/9 of the real circulating would also be a large failure.....
I slightly disagree on the difference of the BCH and BTX claiming situation. At least up to the point, that BTX i my eyes already reflected the smaller and slower claiming ratio by only making it half of the current supply.
But I think mostly we're sharing the same opinion. After all it looks like it would have been better if the devs would have talked to CMC before the airdrop. But again that would put CMC in a position no one wants them to be, perhaps no one besides themselves.

Really good thinking man... love it!

Yep, I think we need to push for option #1 till they obey.
Too bad CMC has become so big. Maybe we (dev team) need to start flashing the true circulation in font 144 in every communication, on the website and in every platform they can so that it become obvious to everyone that CMC is falsy representing BTX.

This idea, I like. A good start at least.

SimpleCoiner

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

It is what it is: Option 1

Sooner or later a lot of that coins will appear in the market, affecting the market numbers (price, volumes...). Any other option is absurd.

I don't think we have to "obey" CMC ... Who are they ? To me they are acting this way due some hidden interests, unknown for the rest us. What we have to do is to listen the BitCore community.

At the end, if CMC doesn't want to be rational, we can choose to obey or to adapt ourselves to the new situation considering more options, including a Bitcore fork to undo transactions for unclaimed BTC coins returning them to circulation again (via more airdrops, or any other method) to satisfy these new CMC rules "made expressly for us".

I'm not in crypto to obey arbitrary decissions from third parties, so it should be a BitCore community and developers decission.

minestro

full member

Activity: 266

Merit: 101

Bitcore (BTX) - The Future is Now

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:37:45 PM

Really good thinking man... love it!

Yep, I think we need to push for option #1 till they obey.
Too bad CMC has become so big. Maybe we (dev team) need to start flashing the true circulation in font 144 in every communication, on the website and in every platform they can so that it become obvious to everyone that CMC is falsy representing BTX.

Not a good idea

The only thing that would happen if we promote aggressively informations opposing the ones on CMC would be the people would start calling BTX a scam, because it's promoting untrue informations. So ATM as bad as it sounds, we would have to obey the decisions of CMC and hope we can make our case the best we can.

QB Horse

member

Activity: 224

Merit: 28

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 08:27:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:58:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 07:43:50 PM

But BTX is not a fork.
Bitcoin Cash is a fork, therefore CMC has some kind of insurance in the circulation. And I'm certain that because of the vast exposure BCH got, they knew people would be more inclined to claim their free BCH.

Totally agree with you that over time, ppl will claim their free 0.5BTX, but nobody can predict the future. 6 months in crypto is like 6 years in real life, and I'm not convinced many people will try to claim their BTX past Q1-2018.

As a large BTX holder, I would love the see BTX climb in the top 30/50 quickly, but if they don't reflect the accurate circulation, so be it. This doesn't remove anything in the trust in the dev team and the bright future I see for Bitcore. A lower reflected circulation means scarcity for ppl, and this will put pressure on the price for the upside.

If there was a way to know the claimed BTX for the virtually forked coins portion of the circulation, that would be ideal. Since option #4 is not possible, if we can get CMC to reflect the true circulation, in that case option #2 is a good compromise.

Two points are bothering me. Scarcity, yes somehow. But it's countered by the less exposure the coin gets while being kept low because of the low capitalization.
And don't you think that the simple fact, that anyone looking at those numbers is always going to see those ghost coins and the large gap between total and circulating supply, and therefore is spreading only fud? IMHO CMC could make such rules but they would have to make them upfront and not afterwards.

With regards to scarcity, what's important is the $ market cap. I believe the dev team sees BTX in the top 10 (Steve said so in telegram today). If so, the market cap would at approx $1.8B. A reflected circulation of 16M means a $112 price. A circulation that excludes the virtually forked coins means a $225 price. Fewer coins in circulation mean scarcity, which means higher price.

But scarcity is only scarcity if the demand is there

I get where you're going, but there are 2 factors in determining the price and that's not only supply but also demand. And the demand is rising with the exposure, which actually hugely determined by media coverage which is very influenced by the standing of a currency on coinmarketcap.
There are many facets to this discussion. Like if you choose option 2 what happens if the BTC whales start clamining their coins and the number of claimed coins is let's say about 1 Mio and if that is not being reflected by the circulating supply? Not listing 1/9 of the real circulating would also be a large failure.....
I slightly disagree on the difference of the BCH and BTX claiming situation. At least up to the point, that BTX i my eyes already reflected the smaller and slower claiming ratio by only making it half of the current supply.
But I think mostly we're sharing the same opinion. After all it looks like it would have been better if the devs would have talked to CMC before the airdrop. But again that would put CMC in a position no one wants them to be, perhaps no one besides themselves.

Really good thinking man... love it!

Yep, I think we need to push for option #1 till they obey.
Too bad CMC has become so big. Maybe we (dev team) need to start flashing the true circulation in font 144 in every communication, on the website and in every platform they can so that it become obvious to everyone that CMC is falsy representing BTX.

keyzersoze

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 266

I claimed both snapshots, so I know my coins are in circulation.
And since we can never be a 100% sure, either now or in the future, how many coins has, or will be individually claimed. It has to be option one. End of story. The same as all other coins are calculated.

This shouldn't even be an issue. If enough people complain, they'll have to fix it.
The squeakiest wheel, gets the most grease.

minestro

full member

Activity: 266

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Bitcore (BTX) - The Future is Now

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:58:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 07:43:50 PM

But BTX is not a fork.
Bitcoin Cash is a fork, therefore CMC has some kind of insurance in the circulation. And I'm certain that because of the vast exposure BCH got, they knew people would be more inclined to claim their free BCH.

Totally agree with you that over time, ppl will claim their free 0.5BTX, but nobody can predict the future. 6 months in crypto is like 6 years in real life, and I'm not convinced many people will try to claim their BTX past Q1-2018.

As a large BTX holder, I would love the see BTX climb in the top 30/50 quickly, but if they don't reflect the accurate circulation, so be it. This doesn't remove anything in the trust in the dev team and the bright future I see for Bitcore. A lower reflected circulation means scarcity for ppl, and this will put pressure on the price for the upside.

If there was a way to know the claimed BTX for the virtually forked coins portion of the circulation, that would be ideal. Since option #4 is not possible, if we can get CMC to reflect the true circulation, in that case option #2 is a good compromise.

Two points are bothering me. Scarcity, yes somehow. But it's countered by the less exposure the coin gets while being kept low because of the low capitalization.
And don't you think that the simple fact, that anyone looking at those numbers is always going to see those ghost coins and the large gap between total and circulating supply, and therefore is spreading only fud? IMHO CMC could make such rules but they would have to make them upfront and not afterwards.

With regards to scarcity, what's important is the $ market cap. I believe the dev team sees BTX in the top 10 (Steve said so in telegram today). If so, the market cap would at approx $1.8B. A reflected circulation of 16M means a $112 price. A circulation that excludes the virtually forked coins means a $225 price. Fewer coins in circulation mean scarcity, which means higher price.

But scarcity is only scarcity if the demand is there

I get where you're going, but there are 2 factors in determining the price and that's not only supply but also demand. And the demand is rising with the exposure, which actually hugely determined by media coverage which is very influenced by the standing of a currency on coinmarketcap.
There are many facets to this discussion. Like if you choose option 2 what happens if the BTC whales start clamining their coins and the number of claimed coins is let's say about 1 Mio and if that is not being reflected by the circulating supply? Not listing 1/9 of the real circulating would also be a large failure.....
I slightly disagree on the difference of the BCH and BTX claiming situation. At least up to the point, that BTX i my eyes already reflected the smaller and slower claiming ratio by only making it half of the current supply.
But I think mostly we're sharing the same opinion. After all it looks like it would have been better if the devs would have talked to CMC before the airdrop. But again that would put CMC in a position no one wants them to be, perhaps no one besides themselves.

keyzersoze

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 266

Has to be option one. Or every other coin on cmc is up for debate.
End of discussion.

Hadrop.Boyle

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They should rename this into what it really is:

possible circulation

and use for all coins the same calculation. (so option one)
Thats the only way to compare, what I hope Coinmarketcap wants to do.

gwestcot

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Activity: 794

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Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 08:16:21 PM

Quote from: Vigme86 on November 19, 2017, 07:10:32 PM

I think option 2 is a good compromise. It's highly unlikely all the BTXs during snapshot would be redeemed, and I still don't get why you have done it.
Anyway at least with option 2 would be like if it never happened.

Just wanted to highlight the fact that the dev team has been fully transparent with the early adopters and presented 5 options for the October/November distribution. This Nov 2nd snapshot was agreed within the Bitcore community.

I'm sure you can still find the discussions about the distribution going back in the first 100 pages.

I was the one that facilitated those discussion when I wasn't even on the dev team yet. Roll Eyes

thefix

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Its tempting to go with the option that will make BTX go up in value most, but I think its most important to go with the option that is representative of other coins listed on coinmarketcap. I think option one is probably the most realistic way to move forward given the distribution model.

QB Horse

member

Activity: 224

Merit: 28

Quote from: Vigme86 on November 19, 2017, 07:10:32 PM

I think option 2 is a good compromise. It's highly unlikely all the BTXs during snapshot would be redeemed, and I still don't get why you have done it.
Anyway at least with option 2 would be like if it never happened.

Just wanted to highlight the fact that the dev team has been fully transparent with the early adopters and presented 5 options for the October/November distribution. This Nov 2nd snapshot was agreed within the Bitcore community.

I'm sure you can still find the discussions about the distribution going back in the first 100 pages.

QB Horse

member

Activity: 224

Merit: 28

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:58:31 PM

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 07:43:50 PM

But BTX is not a fork.
Bitcoin Cash is a fork, therefore CMC has some kind of insurance in the circulation. And I'm certain that because of the vast exposure BCH got, they knew people would be more inclined to claim their free BCH.

Totally agree with you that over time, ppl will claim their free 0.5BTX, but nobody can predict the future. 6 months in crypto is like 6 years in real life, and I'm not convinced many people will try to claim their BTX past Q1-2018.

As a large BTX holder, I would love the see BTX climb in the top 30/50 quickly, but if they don't reflect the accurate circulation, so be it. This doesn't remove anything in the trust in the dev team and the bright future I see for Bitcore. A lower reflected circulation means scarcity for ppl, and this will put pressure on the price for the upside.

If there was a way to know the claimed BTX for the virtually forked coins portion of the circulation, that would be ideal. Since option #4 is not possible, if we can get CMC to reflect the true circulation, in that case option #2 is a good compromise.

Two points are bothering me. Scarcity, yes somehow. But it's countered by the less exposure the coin gets while being kept low because of the low capitalization.
And don't you think that the simple fact, that anyone looking at those numbers is always going to see those ghost coins and the large gap between total and circulating supply, and therefore is spreading only fud? IMHO CMC could make such rules but they would have to make them upfront and not afterwards.

With regards to scarcity, what's important is the $ market cap. I believe the dev team sees BTX in the top 10 (Steve said so in telegram today). If so, the market cap would at approx $1.8B. A reflected circulation of 16M means a $112 price. A circulation that excludes the virtually forked coins means a $225 price. Fewer coins in circulation mean scarcity, which means higher price.

HandyHan

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I'm good with either Option 1 or 2

minestro

full member

Activity: 266

Merit: 101

Bitcore (BTX) - The Future is Now

Quote from: QB Horse on November 19, 2017, 07:43:50 PM

But BTX is not a fork.
Bitcoin Cash is a fork, therefore CMC has some kind of insurance in the circulation. And I'm certain that because of the vast exposure BCH got, they knew people would be more inclined to claim their free BCH.

Totally agree with you that over time, ppl will claim their free 0.5BTX, but nobody can predict the future. 6 months in crypto is like 6 years in real life, and I'm not convinced many people will try to claim their BTX past Q1-2018.

As a large BTX holder, I would love the see BTX climb in the top 30/50 quickly, but if they don't reflect the accurate circulation, so be it. This doesn't remove anything in the trust in the dev team and the bright future I see for Bitcore. A lower reflected circulation means scarcity for ppl, and this will put pressure on the price for the upside.

If there was a way to know the claimed BTX for the virtually forked coins portion of the circulation, that would be ideal. Since option #4 is not possible, if we can get CMC to reflect the true circulation, in that case option #2 is a good compromise.

There are two points bothering me. Scarcity, yes somehow. But it's countered by the less exposure the coin gets while being kept low because of the low capitalization.
And don't you think that the simple fact, that anyone looking at those numbers is always going to see those ghost coins and the large gap between total and circulating supply. And therefore any solution ignoring the forked coins is spreading only fud? IMHO CMC could make such rules but they would have to make them upfront and not afterwards.

Thanks for the expression "gate keeper". I really racked my brain around that for minutes and didn't finde the expression I was searching for

QB Horse

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Activity: 224

Merit: 28

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:32:13 PM

Quote from: Vigme86 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:32 PM

Quote from: minestro on November 19, 2017, 07:16:53 PM

Sorry, but can one of you both tell me the difference to BCH and BTG and every other fork of BTC? And therefore why BTX should treated in any way other than these coins?

I think it's a different situation. BTX is not a fork in the blockchain of BTC like BCH and BTG and has not the same exposure.

How can the exposure make any difference regarding a pure technical & theoretical issue like counting the coins in circulation? Don't you think arguing in such a manor is more politics than fact based decisions?
I really don't think a site, which pure purpose is IMHO to list and track the specifics of different coins, should start being judge of what count as anything or not. Because if they start to act like this, they begin being a judge or referee and make decision for the whole market. That's too much power for any party and is strictly against the decentralized concept free of any regulating institutions of cryptocurrencies at all.

I think we're all saying the same thing here. CMC should be fair to all coins and option #1 should prevail. But if CMC don't want to listen and reflect the true circulation, then option #2 is a good compromise.

With regards to exposure, since 99% of BTC address holders have no idea they got a free 0.5BTX, they will likely never claim it. For sure, over time some will claim it, but past 3-6 months thinking that most will have claimed their free BTX is wishful thinking. Therefore these non-claimed BTX will not be in circulation.
Now since BCH was a fork and because of the massive exposure since August 1st, the vast majority know they got a free BCH.

Having said that, you're making a really good point that CMC has no authority and should not be the "gate keeper", and if it's what they start doing, then that's a major issue.

antonio8

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Quote from: drm on November 19, 2017, 07:31:26 PM

Quote from: gwestcot on November 19, 2017, 07:25:07 PM

How is this really any different than still counting Satoshi's coins or the millions of lost Bitcoin as being "in circulation"?

This is exactly why it's so ridiculous, why is this even a discussion.

These two already said what I was going to say.

No one knows the true number of BTC in circulation. There are many lost due to people wiping hard drives forgetting they had them, laptops lost, hard drives thrown away, etc.

Sure there may have been 16 million mined but does not mean they are in circulation.

QB Horse

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Merit: 28

Topic: Incorrect Bitcore(BTX) Circulating Supply on CMC - page 5. (Read 4170 times)