So is this still happening or what? I'm still definitely interested in helping out. I won't take BTC as payment, but I can't guarantee I can drop everything to process a request.
This is just compiling information and then posting it for the admins/mods to review right? No funny business? I imagine a bunch of us can help, pro bono or not.
Topic: Independent scam investigations - page 2. (Read 4858 times)
In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.
The minute you start representing this in terms of some kind of formal, professional or accredited service, you're going to run into licensing requirements in many jurisdictions.
There's also the question of the purpose of these investigations. Labelling someone a scammer after the fact has limited value. It might matter to people who want to remain part of this community, but it's not going to matter a damn to those who are going to cut and run from Bitcoin unless the information obtained leads to legal consequences or finds its way to potential victims of their next venture.
Perhaps I should have used the word "standardized" instead of "formal."
I also fail to see why presenting evidence solely for the purpose of applying a scammer tag for the bitcointalk.org forum would require any licensing in any jurisdiction.
I'd like to see us be able to label those who we can prove 'intent to scam' or defraud as well.
add my name to the list.
add my name to the list.
In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.
The minute you start representing this in terms of some kind of formal, professional or accredited service, you're going to run into licensing requirements in many jurisdictions.
There's also the question of the purpose of these investigations. Labelling someone a scammer after the fact has limited value. It might matter to people who want to remain part of this community, but it's not going to matter a damn to those who are going to cut and run from Bitcoin unless the information obtained leads to legal consequences or finds its way to potential victims of their next venture.
In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
Can scammers like me join too ?
You know the saying "it takes one to know one"
There are two key components needed by scam investigators:
1) The ability to (mostly) disregard emotions and prejudice. Usually this means clear logical thinking, but that's not completely necessary.
2) You must be a trusted member of the community.
bulanula, you might make a good investigator. All you would have to do is get rid of the scammer tag and I believe that at least point 2 would apply. Only you would know about point 1, but I think you can do it.
Don't worry, the meds can always take care of number 1
Overdose and the problem is gone
Joking aside, I am not on any meds
I might need to work on my character though ...
Im keen to get involved if the man hours dont kill me
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
Can scammers like me join too ?
You know the saying "it takes one to know one"
There are two key components needed by scam investigators:
1) The ability to (mostly) disregard emotions and prejudice. Usually this means clear logical thinking, but that's not completely necessary.
2) You must be a trusted member of the community.
bulanula, you might make a good investigator. All you would have to do is get rid of the scammer tag and I believe that at least point 2 would apply. Only you would know about point 1, but I think you can do it.
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
Can scammers like me join too ?
You know the saying "it takes one to know one"
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
Can scammers like me join too ?
You know the saying "it takes one to know one"
See, that's the problem most people have. They tend to hear tone in written words, where there is simply no tone, just a message being passed.
I'm accused of being an asshole at least 2 times every day because of that same thing.
I'm hoping that people will stop reading emotions on written words when there are none. But I can really just hope, I know it won't happen anytime soon.
This is really really freaky and ironic at the same time. You nailed it on the head perfectly with this explanation that I would have never sought to put it in terms like how you did, so many really smart people here, no doubt, man. This just happened to me yesterday but everything was good after what I sent was fully read.
+1
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
I'd be willing to help out as well.
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
And me. 
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
Count me in, edd.
Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
We definitely are having issues with scammer cases at the moment. There's several that need to be looked into, that can't be determined just from reading a thread or two. Maged was the only mod really doing them, now that he's not there's nobody doing it. It's a lot of time and effort to ask someone to do for free. It might be a decent business idea. Insurance/collection agency type thing, where if you pass certain standards when performing a trade (getting enough info/using escrow/whatever) then they will guarantee to buy your debt for a percentage fee and collect themselves/pursue scammer tag. If appropriate precautions are taken a scammer tag should be a certainty in the majority of cases.
And that's not theymos being an ass, he's always been short and to the point. It helps if you think of him as a robot. An anarchist robot.
And yeah bans for scammers ain't gonna happen, don't even ask. Besides, banning them would just ensure they'll never pay their debts.
And that's not theymos being an ass, he's always been short and to the point. It helps if you think of him as a robot. An anarchist robot.
And yeah bans for scammers ain't gonna happen, don't even ask. Besides, banning them would just ensure they'll never pay their debts.
That surely explains the tone of PM's I got from him months ago. I took it personally, but let it pass. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, BadBear. I have great respect for theymos, and all the ribbing I do at his expense is just that--ribbing/joking.
~Bruno~
See, that's the problem most people have. They tend to hear tone in written words, where there is simply no tone, just a message being passed.
I'm accused of being an asshole at least 2 times every day because of that same thing.
I'm hoping that people will stop reading emotions on written words when there are none. But I can really just hope, I know it won't happen anytime soon.
Theymos is short, to the point and most importantly, fast. Most efficient admin of a site ever.
We definitely are having issues with scammer cases at the moment. There's several that need to be looked into, that can't be determined just from reading a thread or two. Maged was the only mod really doing them, now that he's not there's nobody doing it. It's a lot of time and effort to ask someone to do for free. It might be a decent business idea. Insurance/collection agency type thing, where if you pass certain standards when performing a trade (getting enough info/using escrow/whatever) then they will guarantee to buy your debt for a percentage fee and collect themselves/pursue scammer tag. If appropriate precautions are taken a scammer tag should be a certainty in the majority of cases.
And that's not theymos being an ass, he's always been short and to the point. It helps if you think of him as a robot. An anarchist robot.
And yeah bans for scammers ain't gonna happen, don't even ask. Besides, banning them would just ensure they'll never pay their debts.
And that's not theymos being an ass, he's always been short and to the point. It helps if you think of him as a robot. An anarchist robot.
And yeah bans for scammers ain't gonna happen, don't even ask. Besides, banning them would just ensure they'll never pay their debts.
That surely explains the tone of PM's I got from him months ago. I took it personally, but let it pass. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, BadBear. I have great respect for theymos, and all the ribbing I do at his expense is just that--ribbing/joking.
~Bruno~
As for dividing the money, there is the problem that many investigations are extremely easy, and some are absurdly hard. I don't know what we'd do about that. It might just work out fine depending on the people in the group, but I could see it falling apart if some people only take the easy stuff.
That will be tricky. This should be on a strictly volunteer basis but you're right that one job may require much more work than another.
The only way that I see would be to have everyone fill out some sort of spreadsheet detailing the work done and the time it took. I'd hate to have to break it down too much, however. Maybe jobs could be classified as Easy, Average, and Difficult with relevant pay rates.
Also, all of our information doesn't need to be posted publicly, nor should it. Not even the reports to theymos. Too much private information is contained in those communications to release publicly. I'm all for the information being released to the rest of the group, though. Of course, if either party in an investigation wants to go public, that is on them.
Sounds reasonable but theymos was the one requesting a thread containing all the evidence.
Scam investigators need to convince me that someone is almost certainly a scammer. This is done by:
- Finding conclusive evidence that the suspect has scammed someone.
- Compiling all of the evidence into a short report (not strewn across a huge thread).
- Posting all of the evidence in a new thread in "Trading discussion".
- After at least a few days of public discussion, send me the link to the thread with the evidence.
- Finding conclusive evidence that the suspect has scammed someone.
- Compiling all of the evidence into a short report (not strewn across a huge thread).
- Posting all of the evidence in a new thread in "Trading discussion".
- After at least a few days of public discussion, send me the link to the thread with the evidence.
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