India's 30% tax on income from digital asset - page 3.

mobilestrike

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Quote from: dunfida on February 09, 2022, 03:28:28 PM

Quote from: mobilestrike on February 09, 2022, 03:04:41 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on February 08, 2022, 09:58:23 PM

Quote from: mobilestrike on February 08, 2022, 04:57:58 PM

Yeah that is the logical point which that bureaucrat did not noticed or thought about which made his proposal a failed proposal. The finance minister gave an idea to the state which I myself like in the time when there was a fear of ban of the crypto in the country. Without that greed of the 30% tax given to the state she may not be able to approve her idea. She gave the idea of mutual benefits to the state among the users and the state.

IMO, the 30% tax is less problematic when compared to the 1% VAT that is imposed on all cryptocurrency taxations. And that too in TDS mode. It means that if I want to transfer crypto from one of my wallets to another, then a 1% tax (on the transaction amount) needs to be paid and the details need to be shown in the tax return. For day traders, this is unviable. If they pay 1% as tax, then there is no way that they will end up with a profit. And this also means that crypto can't be used as a medium of payment, as it will be more expensive when compared to credit card or online bank transfer.

Really this then create problem for the day traders as with each trade they will see 1% deducted from their amount. But there is one solution for that, if they will trade on centralized exchange then I do not think that 1% will be deducted from each trade as on centralized exchanges all the deposits are on one place on the exchange address and we trade with the numbers and is transferred to another address only when we withdraw, if I right!!

When a certain country does impose that kind of regulation then it is likely that any centralized platforms could be possibly be asked with some sort of account history or what but this would be only be possible if you do

get caught on evading tax and really been involved with some in depth investigation which it couldnt really be that avoided that they would be providing all the details but speaking off making withdrawal on other

addresses then its true that you can get hold off those funds but for sure you would really be monitored out and it would really be mandatory that you should pay up tax.

If that state have imposed that kind of rule then they have prepared everything for imposing that rule as I am hearing that government is working from a few years to dal with this field. Sometimes they imposed ban and sometimes they remove that ban. There was also a case in the court about that matter and after that longer time they came up with this decision means that they must have prepared the subject well.

By the way if they do not keep deep eye on every movement of their citizens then they can only monitor those who are depositing, withdrawing with their bank account and those who are using centralized exchanges etc.

Mometaskers

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30% is pretty greedy. Together with whatever fees that have to be paid when transferring between these platforms, it could really eat into whatever small profit traders might be earning.

dunfida

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Quote from: mobilestrike on February 09, 2022, 03:04:41 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on February 08, 2022, 09:58:23 PM

Quote from: mobilestrike on February 08, 2022, 04:57:58 PM

Yeah that is the logical point which that bureaucrat did not noticed or thought about which made his proposal a failed proposal. The finance minister gave an idea to the state which I myself like in the time when there was a fear of ban of the crypto in the country. Without that greed of the 30% tax given to the state she may not be able to approve her idea. She gave the idea of mutual benefits to the state among the users and the state.

IMO, the 30% tax is less problematic when compared to the 1% VAT that is imposed on all cryptocurrency taxations. And that too in TDS mode. It means that if I want to transfer crypto from one of my wallets to another, then a 1% tax (on the transaction amount) needs to be paid and the details need to be shown in the tax return. For day traders, this is unviable. If they pay 1% as tax, then there is no way that they will end up with a profit. And this also means that crypto can't be used as a medium of payment, as it will be more expensive when compared to credit card or online bank transfer.

Really this then create problem for the day traders as with each trade they will see 1% deducted from their amount. But there is one solution for that, if they will trade on centralized exchange then I do not think that 1% will be deducted from each trade as on centralized exchanges all the deposits are on one place on the exchange address and we trade with the numbers and is transferred to another address only when we withdraw, if I right!!

When a certain country does impose that kind of regulation then it is likely that any centralized platforms could be possibly be asked with some sort of account history or what but this would be only be possible if you do

get caught on evading tax and really been involved with some in depth investigation which it couldnt really be that avoided that they would be providing all the details but speaking off making withdrawal on other

addresses then its true that you can get hold off those funds but for sure you would really be monitored out and it would really be mandatory that you should pay up tax.

mobilestrike

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Quote from: Sithara007 on February 08, 2022, 09:58:23 PM

Quote from: mobilestrike on February 08, 2022, 04:57:58 PM

Yeah that is the logical point which that bureaucrat did not noticed or thought about which made his proposal a failed proposal. The finance minister gave an idea to the state which I myself like in the time when there was a fear of ban of the crypto in the country. Without that greed of the 30% tax given to the state she may not be able to approve her idea. She gave the idea of mutual benefits to the state among the users and the state.

IMO, the 30% tax is less problematic when compared to the 1% VAT that is imposed on all cryptocurrency taxations. And that too in TDS mode. It means that if I want to transfer crypto from one of my wallets to another, then a 1% tax (on the transaction amount) needs to be paid and the details need to be shown in the tax return. For day traders, this is unviable. If they pay 1% as tax, then there is no way that they will end up with a profit. And this also means that crypto can't be used as a medium of payment, as it will be more expensive when compared to credit card or online bank transfer.

Really this then create problem for the day traders as with each trade they will see 1% deducted from their amount. But there is one solution for that, if they will trade on centralized exchange then I do not think that 1% will be deducted from each trade as on centralized exchanges all the deposits are on one place on the exchange address and we trade with the numbers and is transferred to another address only when we withdraw, if I right!!

Bttzed03

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Quote from: lixer on February 09, 2022, 04:32:42 AM

~
I wonder why rules like this only happens on a much poorer countries like India but on other countries where i say a bit more wealthy, they do not implement taxes yet on cryptocurrencies. Oh well, let's hope for the greater good on those countries.

I think it's the other way around. Can you name wealthy countries that doesn't have a tax on crypto yet? You'll have to exclude China there. Likewise, can you name those from poorer countries other than India?

AFAIK, developing countries still do not have specific laws on how to treat income from crypto trading/mining. In most cases, it's the trader/investor who voluntarily reports it in his/her tax returns subject to ordinary income tax.

lixer

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on February 08, 2022, 12:23:39 AM

There's one positive thing about this that now government is thinking of taking tax which indirectly implies that it's fine for traders and investors to trade in cryptocurrency and the fear of a complete ban on all trades and holding crypto is gone by huge amount. But the tax is a bit too high? Seems so, the clarifications are not very transparent either, maybe I didn't read them in details yet but I think for many, that if the tax is 30% on profit, which means one gets to keep 70% profit which might be fine, specially those who are having huge amount invested since gains on crypto are lots higher when they get up and in the bull market but middle class traders will pay a lot of price and many might quit trading in crypto, all we need is now to wait and see how the regulation is implemented

being taxed but crypto is now allowed is better than not being tax and no cryptos at all at least they can still earn something and experience if what is using cryptos feels like. Almost all of us here have the same impression about the percentage put on tax, it was too high and this hurts a lot for a small time traders and investors but then again they do not have no choice but to accept it because at least crypto is now legal on their country.

I wonder why rules like this only happens on a much poorer countries like India but on other countries where i say a bit more wealthy, they do not implement taxes yet on cryptocurrencies. Oh well, let's hope for the greater good on those countries.

Xinarae*

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With regard to taxes as a whole it is a matter of great relief that our government is taking a progressive stance towards innovation. By introducing taxes the government gives a lot of legitimacy to the industry most people, especially in the corporate sector who are sitting on the sidelines due to uncertainty, will now be able to invest in crypto. Overall this is a positive step for the industry india is also moving towards finally bringing the unregulated and uninterrupted cryptocurrency sector under a regulatory framework the country's finance minister nirmala sitharaman has also suggested a 1% tax cut at source on payments related to the purchase of virtual assets.

Sithara007

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Quote from: mobilestrike on February 08, 2022, 04:57:58 PM

Yeah that is the logical point which that bureaucrat did not noticed or thought about which made his proposal a failed proposal. The finance minister gave an idea to the state which I myself like in the time when there was a fear of ban of the crypto in the country. Without that greed of the 30% tax given to the state she may not be able to approve her idea. She gave the idea of mutual benefits to the state among the users and the state.

IMO, the 30% tax is less problematic when compared to the 1% VAT that is imposed on all cryptocurrency taxations. And that too in TDS mode. It means that if I want to transfer crypto from one of my wallets to another, then a 1% tax (on the transaction amount) needs to be paid and the details need to be shown in the tax return. For day traders, this is unviable. If they pay 1% as tax, then there is no way that they will end up with a profit. And this also means that crypto can't be used as a medium of payment, as it will be more expensive when compared to credit card or online bank transfer.

mobilestrike

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Quote from: Sithara007 on February 07, 2022, 10:06:12 PM

Quote from: mobilestrike on February 07, 2022, 04:54:24 PM

In between the tax and the ban, the tax is better and is more better if a 10 years prison is kept with ban.
From the market we can see that Indian people are happy as they all want to adopt digital assets and because they are more relying on online services and software and for online businesses now the time is for blockchain so the tax will not leave them behind while the tax can leave them behind in the race for modern technology.

The proposal to make ownership of cryptocurrency punishable by up to 10 years in prison (as suggested by one of the top bureaucrats) was outright laughable. According to the latest estimates, there are tens of millions of crypto users in India. Even if 10% of them doesn't agree to forfeit their digital assets, the number would be in the millions. So is the government going to imprison all these people? As far as I know, the total prison capacity in India is only around 250,000. So where the remainder will be lodged? Fortunately, the finance minister turned out to be more intelligent when compared to the bureaucrats and she legalized crypto.

Yeah that is the logical point which that bureaucrat did not noticed or thought about which made his proposal a failed proposal. The finance minister gave an idea to the state which I myself like in the time when there was a fear of ban of the crypto in the country. Without that greed of the 30% tax given to the state she may not be able to approve her idea. She gave the idea of mutual benefits to the state among the users and the state.

Silberman

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Quote from: Flexystar on February 04, 2022, 11:57:16 AM

That is definitely straightforward decommissioning strategy of the crypto currencies in India I guess. They simply don’t want their Indian people to go and invest into crypto freely. Or there is another possible way to earn some good bucks from the taxes and let their people use the crypto. In either way government of India seems to be on winning side here. I am just seeing one positive thing here, they have thought this through and trying to win the hearts of their people. I mean this is perfect politics, they neither deny the fact of using crypto nor using it freely. So it’s up to the people of India whether to use the crypto or not. They are allowed to use it but they have to pay good amount of tax for the same. Well played by PM I guess.

That would be true if people actually were going to pay that tax but I do not think that is going to be the case, people are going to see this and simply ignore the government, they will challenge it to find every single one of them and extract that tax, if they can, this is what governments do not understand, people are reasonable but if you push them hard enough then they will begin to push bask and if they believe that bitcoin is necessary into their lives then they are not going to be happy to pay such a huge tax and will disobey the law.

iamsheikhadil

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There's one positive thing about this that now government is thinking of taking tax which indirectly implies that it's fine for traders and investors to trade in cryptocurrency and the fear of a complete ban on all trades and holding crypto is gone by huge amount. But the tax is a bit too high? Seems so, the clarifications are not very transparent either, maybe I didn't read them in details yet but I think for many, that if the tax is 30% on profit, which means one gets to keep 70% profit which might be fine, specially those who are having huge amount invested since gains on crypto are lots higher when they get up and in the bull market but middle class traders will pay a lot of price and many might quit trading in crypto, all we need is now to wait and see how the regulation is implemented

Bttzed03

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Quote from: amishmanish on February 07, 2022, 12:12:13 PM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on February 01, 2022, 10:45:34 PM

Losses are also non-deductible or cannot be used as an offset against other income

I don't think i understood this well enough to comment. Someone else is welcome to comment.

Let me expound on that based on what I understand so far. If you happen to incur a net loss from trading/selling crypto for the current taxable year, you cannot use that to deduct from capital gains on sale of other assets or from ordinary income. Also (I forgot to add this in the OP), you cannot carry over those losses for next year.

Sithara007

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Quote from: mobilestrike on February 07, 2022, 04:54:24 PM

In between the tax and the ban, the tax is better and is more better if a 10 years prison is kept with ban.
From the market we can see that Indian people are happy as they all want to adopt digital assets and because they are more relying on online services and software and for online businesses now the time is for blockchain so the tax will not leave them behind while the tax can leave them behind in the race for modern technology.

The proposal to make ownership of cryptocurrency punishable by up to 10 years in prison (as suggested by one of the top bureaucrats) was outright laughable. According to the latest estimates, there are tens of millions of crypto users in India. Even if 10% of them doesn't agree to forfeit their digital assets, the number would be in the millions. So is the government going to imprison all these people? As far as I know, the total prison capacity in India is only around 250,000. So where the remainder will be lodged? Fortunately, the finance minister turned out to be more intelligent when compared to the bureaucrats and she legalized crypto.

mobilestrike

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Quote from: Sithara007 on February 06, 2022, 09:27:25 PM

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2022, 07:36:12 AM

That's the only good news. Even though the rates are pretty harsh, any acknowledgement from the governments is better than getting a direct ban. Maybe later on they will lower 30% to a more humane rate like 20% or something but I don't have high hopes for that right now. After a year or two when things cool off, they'll probably reconsider their decision.

I definitely agree. The bureaucrats wanted a total ban on cryptocurrency and the suggestion from Subhash Chandra Garg (former Finance Secretary of India) was to make possession of cryptocurrency punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The finance minister ignored those recommendations and made crypto legal in India. The tax rate may sound a bit high, but in India capital assets apart from stocks are being taxed at this level. Maybe they will consider lowering the rate in the future, but I am not very concerned. What we needed was legalization, and we got it.

In between the tax and the ban, the tax is better and is more better if a 10 years prison is kept with ban.
From the market we can see that Indian people are happy as they all want to adopt digital assets and because they are more relying on online services and software and for online businesses now the time is for blockchain so the tax will not leave them behind while the tax can leave them behind in the race for modern technology.

stadus

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Quote from: mich on February 07, 2022, 02:41:09 AM

I think it's great that India has legalized bitcoin. I see this is a great opportunity for Indians to get into the crypto space and take advantage of this amazing revolutionary technology.
Legalization will inevitably have a positive impact on the Indian economy as BTC has created significant wealth for countries with a large percentage of adoption.
It's unfortunate that they’re taxing crypto but I think that it's expected that governments want a piece of the action considering how many citizens around the world have benefited financially.

The legalization is good, but the tax rate on transactions is too high.

IMO, if they legalized something, it should be beneficial to the people, charging 30% for a transaction is just too high, that would not help bitcoin to grow as a digital payment for daily transactions, it's not competitive compared to other digital assets. Not sure how they come up with that rate, it looks like it's their way of saying no.

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Quote from: Eltharion on February 07, 2022, 03:17:44 PM

30% is really a lot.

A lot really which you could tell that it is already non ethical for the government to impose such percentage even if they do know that they are doing this for tax and economic
development coz everything could be done without imposing this high tax neither on typical industry or just simply focusing on crypto alone which it would really be much
better if they do ban it rather than accepting it but having these tremendous taxes but even though despite of the condition then people could still find ways
on how they would able to avoid this one.

mia_houston

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Quote from: skarais on February 07, 2022, 01:57:33 PM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on February 01, 2022, 10:45:34 PM

It's a double edge to me. We have the legalization aspect (after so many ban proposals) but the rate looks quite high especially when they lowered the personal income tax rates (for certain income brackets) and the Capital Gains Tax appears lower too. It seems like they really want to get the most from crypto retail traders and investors because they know that there is a strong demand and a large number of transactions.

Of course I don't think it's a fair thing for everyone, but the government may have targeted a crypto whale or other big investor in your country.

If this applies to crypto then I'm sure no one wants to hit the threshold. I can't give 30% of my profits to the government while they can never give me free capital. This is absolutely insane for legalization and tax regimes. I just feel that the government is not only concerned with tax revenue but they are trying to prevent big investors from coming to crypto.

On the one hand, indeed, the existence of a crypto tax makes the Indian government look like it supports the legality of crypto in the country, but on the other hand, the tax seems to be used to suppress crypto development for ordinary people who have small capital in investment, just like you, if that is the case. happened in my country of course I also would not want to pay the tax, because the percentage is quite large, besides that the government only wants to know if we get a profit but they will not care if we lose our assets due to hacking or stolen, and maybe it will be more realistic if the application of taxes is also balanced with the amount of guarantees given to us as crypto lovers, now I read news that many citizens in India who signed an online petition reject the government decision, because according them, the tax is 30 % will only destroy crypto in india.

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Quote from: skarais on February 07, 2022, 01:57:33 PM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on February 01, 2022, 10:45:34 PM

It's a double edge to me. We have the legalization aspect (after so many ban proposals) but the rate looks quite high especially when they lowered the personal income tax rates (for certain income brackets) and the Capital Gains Tax appears lower too. It seems like they really want to get the most from crypto retail traders and investors because they know that there is a strong demand and a large number of transactions.

Of course I don't think it's a fair thing for everyone, but the government may have targeted a crypto whale or other big investor in your country.

If this applies to crypto then I'm sure no one wants to hit the threshold. I can't give 30% of my profits to the government while they can never give me free capital. This is absolutely insane for legalization and tax regimes. I just feel that the government is not only concerned with tax revenue but they are trying to prevent big investors from coming to crypto.

afaik, it is not yet implemented so they still have to protest about this high percentage. and agree at certain point where even small crypto users are willing to pay their tax. because if this will be approved as a bill, more then likely, their crypto users will find a way how to avoid paying that high amount of tax. in short, the bill will not be effective and will only be futile. so for the government, they better listen their constituents' suggestion so at the end they are both benefiting from this bill.

Eltharion

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30% is really a lot.

skarais

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on February 01, 2022, 10:45:34 PM

It's a double edge to me. We have the legalization aspect (after so many ban proposals) but the rate looks quite high especially when they lowered the personal income tax rates (for certain income brackets) and the Capital Gains Tax appears lower too. It seems like they really want to get the most from crypto retail traders and investors because they know that there is a strong demand and a large number of transactions.

Of course I don't think it's a fair thing for everyone, but the government may have targeted a crypto whale or other big investor in your country.

If this applies to crypto then I'm sure no one wants to hit the threshold. I can't give 30% of my profits to the government while they can never give me free capital. This is absolutely insane for legalization and tax regimes. I just feel that the government is not only concerned with tax revenue but they are trying to prevent big investors from coming to crypto.

Topic: India's 30% tax on income from digital asset - page 3. (Read 682 times)