[Infographic]: Guide on possible reasons to leave a -ve/+ve trust feedbacks. - page 2.

r1s2g3

sr. member

Activity: 742

Merit: 395

I am alive but in hibernation.

Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on January 23, 2019, 10:28:29 PM

Correct me with a recent example of BTT account used as a collateral and it wasn't red tagged. I believe just accepting or giving a BTT account as a collateral can be consider as account farming as the main intention of a collateral is base on the fact of loaner default so you have something to turn to.

Here is the example for you.

Quote from: shasan on September 16, 2018, 02:14:16 PM

Terms:
1. You must have valid collateral. Altcoin and reputed bitcointalk profiles are only valid collateral to me.

User is Green trusted.

It will be zero value collateral for lender but it still it has much value for account owner. Any reputable person will not like to part the account for few dollars.

This should be debatable for which amount of loan and a positive trust should be given. Users are giving/receiving +ve trust for paying petty loan amount ,look like more of trust farming.

Quote from: Coyster on January 23, 2019, 11:15:15 PM

Going through this infographic,i came across your statement which says a user can get a red trust for being an escrow without a track record
Is that correct and should that be so,i know it's safer,and we're encourage to use the forum's official escrow service and also reputable members but is it not the decision of those engaged in the transaction to decide who acts as escrow in their transaction whether or not that person has a track record,but is trusted by both of them,and such person should not get red tagged,I think this makes sense, but I stand to be corrected

Then do the private deal (escrow), no need to start your escrow service thread.
You can check the trust of [ur=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1432468l]mdayonliner[/url] who got -ve trust for jumping in escrow deal of $100K without any experience.

Coyster

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1302

Going through this infographic,i came across your statement which says a user can get a red trust for being an escrow without a track record
Is that correct and should that be so,i know it's safer,and we're encourage to use the forum's official escrow service and also reputable members but is it not the decision of those engaged in the transaction to decide who acts as escrow in their transaction whether or not that person has a track record,but is trusted by both of them,and such person should not get red tagged,I think this makes sense, but I stand to be corrected

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Merit: 4282

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on January 23, 2019, 02:39:34 PM

You're making it sound like taking a BTT as collateral will cause you to instantly get red trusted. - Unless you have examples of this - i wouldn't say that this is the case.

Correct me with a recent example of BTT account used as a collateral and it wasn't red tagged. I believe just accepting or giving a BTT account as a collateral can be consider as account farming as the main intention of a collateral is base on the fact of loaner default so you have something to turn to.

Let me explain myself, if a user accepts or give a BTT account as collateral what he's saying is that I'm adding price value to that account and you should sell it if I can't pay back the loan to cover up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

DT members frown at any issues relating to account farming. Although this issues are still been discussed and if adjustment are made I'll update this infograhic. This is just a temporary guide based on current reasons users are leaving trust feedbacks

AdolfinWolf

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1427

Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on January 22, 2019, 02:10:00 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on January 22, 2019, 01:42:56 PM

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral

Quote from: Vod on April 20, 2014, 01:03:16 PM

What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at. Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

You're making it sound like taking a BTT as collateral will cause you to instantly get red trusted. - Unless you have examples of this - i wouldn't say that this is the case.

Rather if you take an account as collateral, and the user does not pay back, and you then proceed to sell it, that's kind of flawed upon.

I'd say that, especially with high tier accounts, offering account (rather the reputation behind the account) does not instantly =/= Selling the account in the case of them not paying back their loan.

Stedsm

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Activity: 3052

Merit: 1273

Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on January 22, 2019, 02:10:00 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on January 22, 2019, 01:42:56 PM

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral

Quote from: Vod on April 20, 2014, 01:03:16 PM

What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at. Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

So? Who says that our accounts are not worth anything? What's wrong if an account (that is long used and not that alt-type account) is given as a collateral not to cover up the loan value but to justify that the person who is giving their all-time dedication and work to that account believes he/she can put his/her account on stake and get a loan for some time? Sorry, I'm literally not supporting account farming, but giving value to anything (be it even BTC that is evaluated based on people's sentiments, or our accounts here) and deciding what to lend and risk with the borrower totally depends on lender's thinking as well as collateral-acceptance standards.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Quote from: Stedsm on January 22, 2019, 01:42:56 PM

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral

Quote from: Vod on April 20, 2014, 01:03:16 PM

What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at. Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

Stedsm

legendary

Activity: 3052

Merit: 1273

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral? It's their choice to lend someone after taking one's account as a collateral (I'm talking about bitcointalk forum account as it does have a value which lender decides at the time of lending) so how can it be considered a practice of account-farming?

Sorry if there's something already decided in Meta and I'm unaware, please draw me towards the fact based on which you've added the said thing in your infographic. I know it's not official, but still I'm curious.

DdmrDdmr

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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Conceptually it is more complete now, and in line with what could eventually be a good idea to have around. The thing is, DT guidelines are difficult to establish right now: There are different currents of thinking (and acting), and that leads to it being premature for them to be written as holy sacred tablets yet.

I suggested adding the four depicted concepts on your original post (see [Guide]: How not to use the negative feedback aka red tag), since it was only showing one leg of the table (“How not to use the negative feedback”), not four.

I did state that:
“The way I see it now, there is no clear official guidelines for leaving feedback (which I think there sort of should), and there are multiple discussion threads trying to determine or establish them. I guess @theymos wants it to be rather community led, but I see quite a lot of confusion still around it all.”

Meta is where all the DT stuff is being cooked, and therefore we need to wait for the chefs to finish the dish for a better grasp of the outcome …

I would rather that the forum itself either created an official set of guidelines, or that it’s members clearly establish a consensus (and not simply by 51%) on them. The former is more appealing to me, as it would be above individual interests and criteria. Since it is all a bit tits-up right now, I would wait until there is some clear consensus; otherwise what you’ve written seems more “official” than a post with an opinion, and is bound to get too bold at this stage.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Hello @The Pharmacist this thread was a respond to DdmrDdmr reply on my previous thread. He asked for a thread that combines all aspect of leaving trust feedbacks. The intention was not to make it sound official but as a guideline. If you check my post history I have been gaining interest in the trust system and asking questions up and down. I thought it'll be nice to produce solutions to the questions I asked so others won't have to ask the same questions. I'm keeping a close eye on the DT discussion and will be updating the infograph as new reasons for leaving negative,positive or not leaving any trust feedbacks are suggested by the experience members like yourself.

I just made it easier through a infograph so other can understand and stop asking the same questions I did when I picked interested in the trust system.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Making an infographic like this makes it look official, which it's not. If I'm not mistaken, we're still having a discussion about what's acceptable and what's not as far as leaving trust, and I disagree with a couple of the ones on this, like not giving negs for certain rule violations like harassment. Plus the "unless on rare occasions" qualifier sort of makes that suggestion near meaningless. I also don't agree that negs should be left for merit issues unless it's particularly egregious and even then it's a judgement call I don't think Theymos approves of.

All in all, this is premature. You probably want to help and likely are looking for merits, but an infographic of this stuff isn't needed right now. Just my opinion.

kingpin4321

member

Activity: 280

Merit: 14

There have been so much attention on trust system and feed back lately.
The trust system has specified members that are meant to handle it.
Let me guess we have left the merit discussion era now we now have to deal with constant trust system discussion

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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PS: Topic is opened for accessment and corrections. Infograph will be updated constantly as new reasons for leaving or not leaving feedbacks surfaces

What are Trust Feedbacks:
These are feedbacks users leave on other users account to serve as a warning or save sign to trade with that user.

Bitcointalk doesn't have an official rule guiding the leaving of feedbacks but we have numerous guidelines by experience users. If you aren't familiar with the trust system, the below thread will be a great place to start.

[Explained] How DT system works
[Explained] How Trust Score is calculated
[Explained] Importance of Custom Trust List
[Updated]--[Infographic] Leaving Feedback vs Custom Trust List
★Keep your role on Default Trust(DT) selection★

More threads will be uploaded...

Reason for this thread

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on January 19, 2019, 10:35:51 AM

Additionally, it may be interesting to see all four combinations for trust feedback:
-   Use positive feed back for.
-   Don’t use positive feed back for.
-   Use negative feed back for.
-   Don’t use negative feed back for (OP).

Note: If you can't see the image clearly, CLICK HERE to read the contents in formal text.

Image link: https://i.imgur.com/tQVi7tz.jpg

Terms used explained:
Farming means buying and selling
Swapping means exchanging e.g exchanging of +ve. trusts
[Optional] means debatable reasons

In addition

Quote from: LoyceV on January 19, 2019, 01:40:02 PM

I'd like to add to this topic: before leaving feedback, ask yourself if your feedback makes the forum better, and (if applicable) is it worth destroying someone's reputation?

Before you leave a negative feedback,

Quote from: Quickseller on February 03, 2019, 07:20:14 PM

You should be able to explain why this is true:

Quote from: theymos

Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.

Quote from: xtraelv on February 04, 2019, 04:59:03 PM

Mdayonliner also has a good discussion thread about this.

Quote from: Steamtyme on February 24, 2019, 03:07:14 PM

If it is your intention to enlighten others on the use of the system, perhaps promote the 3rd option. I personally see Neutral as a tool for notes on the account/users behavior whether positive or negative, but not a scam/trade dispute.

Note: The moment you start leaving negative feedbacks on other users accounts, you'll make enemies and probably get false red tags so you have to read these quotes on how false negative feedback (red tags) can be handled

Quote from: bones261 on January 14, 2019, 12:42:27 AM

The best way to handle it is to appeal the red trust with the person who wrote it. However, the only way the person's red tag shows up on the trust numbers for an individual depends on their trust settings. Otherwise, it just shows up under the section "untrusted feedback." Most people have not fiddled with their trust settings, so it is set on default trust with a depth of 2. If you have customized your trust setting and want to see what your score looks like under the default settings, just go to a page with a post of yours in a section that displays the trust scores. Then after the url just add ;dt. If the tag doesn't show up on default trust, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, although these false tags may be more of a concern if there is a big move for people to start to customize their trust lists. For example, on my untrusted feedback I have someone accusing me of spreading a fictitious disease to newbies. Cheesy

Quote from: suchmoon on January 14, 2019, 12:58:37 AM

First thing you need to do - stop worrying about ludicrous retaliatory feedback. It's unavoidable but it has no effect on you and you shouldn't waste time appealing it. Trust is not moderated. You will not get it removed unless the sender agrees to do that (in rare cases extreme trust spam may be removed but don't count on that).

Credits:
OP's of quotes above
xtraelv: Discussion about acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Community values. DT

Topic: [Infographic]: Guide on possible reasons to leave a -ve/+ve trust feedbacks. - page 2. (Read 1106 times)