[INFO]Hong Kong's HSBC Allows Customers to Trade Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Lucius on June 30, 2023, 05:55:17 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 29, 2023, 08:06:11 PM

If you do not read the news on the recent developments on China, Hong Kong and the cryptospace, I have shared articles about this topic a few times. If you also read between the lines, good chance that China will open up and try to be the leader. I might get the year wrong when I said Shanghai will be approved for accepting the cryptospace on 2025, however, they will have no choice but to open up if they want to continue pushing for their blockchain ambitions.

Why do you mix blockchain as a technology and cryptocurrencies that use it? What does it matter that China may want to be a leader in blockchain technologies? Does this have any impact on Bitcoin or any of the top altcoins, will CEX across China open up and will crypto mining become legal again?

Hehe I am not mixing anything, when I said blockchain it pertains also to the cryptospace and cryptocoins. If it is the wrong word to use, for this discussion we use cryptospace.

In any case, these are only my own thoughts and my own speculations based on all of the news and articles that I have read. The answer is yes, China's cryptospace ambitions will have an impact on bitcoin and much of the cryptospace. I cannot be certain about crypto mining, however, we might witness regulated cryptocoin trading for institutional and retail investors in Shanghai very much similar to what they have done in Hong Kong on June 2.

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Quote from: Woodrose on June 26, 2023, 09:21:59 PM

Now we can say that the adoption of cryptocurrency is becoming wide. I hope someday in this country where I am working will adopt cryptocurrency, specially in banking. I hope someday we are all accessible in trading/transfering of funds through crypto. Someday, banks will completely embrace the positivity of crypto.

if regulations in each country allow for the development of crypto that can be used either as a means of payment or as a trading asset. I believe the growth of the crypto market will experience rapid growth. although regulation may only focus on a few assets first that have popularity in the market such as Bitcoin.
the government should be more open and not perceive it as a threat. It is possible that if there is the issuance of crypto as a means of payment managed by the government itself, this can eliminate fiat functionality which may be replaced by crypto.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 29, 2023, 08:06:11 PM

America is not closing their doors, only putting an end to most of the cryptospace hehehe, okay. Are you also implying that everything that is not bitcoin is a scam and the SEC should put an end to them?

Most of what you call "cryptospace" isn't necessarily scam in the literal sense of the word, but it's not far from it either. All these meaningless tokens and altcoins on which individuals get rich along with CEXs, and most ordinary people just lose their money are for you something that should still exist? I think some things need to be regulated, because every large-scale crypto scam like FTX or Terra/Luna is reflected directly on Bitcoin.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 29, 2023, 08:06:11 PM

In any case, is it not a sign that China is opening up? HSBC might know something more than us and they also did it on January before all this hype about Blackrock and Fidelity.

For me, this is not a sign that China is changing its attitude towards Bitcoin, but only that one bank is trying to profit by offering one service that actually has no direct connection with investing in cryptocurrencies, because after all it is a futures ETF. On the other hand, BlackRock is trying something completely different, and there is a very big difference if you want to compare the US and China in terms of cryptocurrencies.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 29, 2023, 08:06:11 PM

If you do not read the news on the recent developments on China, Hong Kong and the cryptospace, I have shared articles about this topic a few times. If you also read between the lines, good chance that China will open up and try to be the leader. I might get the year wrong when I said Shanghai will be approved for accepting the cryptospace on 2025, however, they will have no choice but to open up if they want to continue pushing for their blockchain ambitions.

Why do you mix blockchain as a technology and cryptocurrencies that use it? What does it matter that China may want to be a leader in blockchain technologies? Does this have any impact on Bitcoin or any of the top altcoins, will CEX across China open up and will crypto mining become legal again?

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2023, 09:42:01 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 28, 2023, 10:45:08 PM

Hehehehe I never said or even implied that presently China is more friendly towards the cryptospace than the US. What I was saying is how it is head shaking that a communist country like China is starting to open their borders for the cryptospace and America is closing theirs.

I don't agree with the U.S. closing the door, just trying to put an end to some things that should have been regulated a long time ago, unless you think that all that scam associated with altcoins/DeFi should continue even though people lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year? On the other hand, I ask you again, how can futures BTC ETF in HK be a sign that China is opening up to cryptocurrencies?

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 28, 2023, 10:45:08 PM

You also ask what I am talking about when comparing China and America in context to the cryptospace? It is China's ambition to be the world leader in everything, including information technology and blockchain. President Xi mentioned this in one of his speeches. We are witnessing their move slowly in Hong Kong. Shanghai will be next.

So what difference does it make that their president mentioned blockchain a few years ago? It's something that doesn't have to have anything to do with any cryptocurrency, least of all decentralized like Bitcoin. China will only accept what it can fully control, and if you believe in any other outcome you are hardly mistaken.

America is not closing their doors, only putting an end to most of the cryptospace hehehe, okay. Are you also implying that everything that is not bitcoin is a scam and the SEC should put an end to them?

In any case, is it not a sign that China is opening up? HSBC might know something more than us and they also did it on January before all this hype about Blackrock and Fidelity.

If you do not read the news on the recent developments on China, Hong Kong and the cryptospace, I have shared articles about this topic a few times. If you also read between the lines, good chance that China will open up and try to be the leader. I might get the year wrong when I said Shanghai will be approved for accepting the cryptospace on 2025, however, they will have no choice but to open up if they want to continue pushing for their blockchain ambitions.

Also, what difference does it make? Unless you are living under a rock, if you open up your borders to welcome the cryptospace, it must include whitelisting the top cryptocoins. Developments on this are starting in Hong Kong. Their regulators have whitelisted some projects for everyone to trade already, including retail traders.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 28, 2023, 10:45:08 PM

Hehehehe I never said or even implied that presently China is more friendly towards the cryptospace than the US. What I was saying is how it is head shaking that a communist country like China is starting to open their borders for the cryptospace and America is closing theirs.

I don't agree with the U.S. closing the door, just trying to put an end to some things that should have been regulated a long time ago, unless you think that all that scam associated with altcoins/DeFi should continue even though people lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year? On the other hand, I ask you again, how can futures BTC ETF in HK be a sign that China is opening up to cryptocurrencies?

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 28, 2023, 10:45:08 PM

You also ask what I am talking about when comparing China and America in context to the cryptospace? It is China's ambition to be the world leader in everything, including information technology and blockchain. President Xi mentioned this in one of his speeches. We are witnessing their move slowly in Hong Kong. Shanghai will be next.

So what difference does it make that their president mentioned blockchain a few years ago? It's something that doesn't have to have anything to do with any cryptocurrency, least of all decentralized like Bitcoin. China will only accept what it can fully control, and if you believe in any other outcome you are hardly mistaken.

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Your point on crypto's surging acceptance, particularly in banking titans like HSBC, signals crypto's breakout into the mainstream – a green light for the future of fintech. But, lets not jump the gun. Cryptos, while promising nippy, affordable international transfers, carry their own set of perils and puzzles. In your turf, regulatory scaffolding, tech wherewithal, and public cognizance hold the keys to this metamorphosis. But, never forget that while crypto adoption can spur improvements, it demands cautious navigation and firm rule-setting.

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Big banks like HSBC has no choice but to slowly open itself up with the cryptocurrency industry as they know that there is an immense demand and interest from their customer base. Of course, these banks are really careful on what they do and they are doing it with the coordination of those in power so as to avoid crossing the line, so to speak. With regulations already in placed, Hong Kong is right now doing its best to attract crypto-based players coming from different parts of the world most especially that of USA since we know that SEC is waging a very unfortunate war on the whole industry. Many big crypto platforms are already thinking of getting out of USA as they can no more bear the lack of direction and of course to get away from possible prosecution from a certain Mr. Gary Gensler. And of these positive developments in the Hong Kong market while China is watching...no wonder there are now many who are speculating that soon we can see China again opening its door for the crypto industry and be a dominant country for it with the subtle intention of also beating USA with this growing industry which can be a vehicle to attract more capital and influence.

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Quote from: Lucius on June 28, 2023, 05:46:49 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2023, 08:35:59 PM

I am not arguing, I am only saying that China is slowly opening their borders for the cryptospace through Hong Kong as the go between and I think this is a positive development compared to the crackdowns being done by uncle Gary. There is more news besides the Hong Kong ETF article that already shows this.

You're grasping at straws that really don't make sense to grasp on since your main thesis is that China is becoming more crypto friendly than the US. And the fact is that what is happening in HK has nothing to do with Bitcoin or the Chinese position towards it.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2023, 08:35:59 PM

Also, about ETFs in America, futures ETFs that were already approved are different from spot ETFs. Spot ETFs invests in real Bitcoin.

I don't know why you think you need to teach me about the difference between spot and futures ETF, and I tell you in my previous post that futures BTC ETF has been around for years in the US, and your Uncle Gary has nothing against it. You and many think that the SEC is fighting Bitcoin, when in fact all this fight is directed against shitcoins, and then what are you even talking about when comparing China and the US in the context of cryptocurrencies?

Hehehehe I never said or even implied that presently China is more friendly towards the cryptospace than the US. What I was saying is how it is head shaking that a communist country like China is starting to open their borders for the cryptospace and America is closing theirs.

You also ask what I am talking about when comparing China and America in context to the cryptospace? It is China's ambition to be the world leader in everything, including information technology and blockchain. President Xi mentioned this in one of his speeches. We are witnessing their move slowly in Hong Kong. Shanghai will be next.

On futures ETF and spot ETF having no difference, I disagree. There is a difference. A spot ETF gives the investors exposure to bitcoin because the contents of those funds will be bitcoins, a futures ETF does not. If Blackrock's ETF is approved, do you remember the pump that begun on March 12 because of CZ's $1 billion twap? It might be similar to that but more of them after each ETF approval of the other institutional funds.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on June 28, 2023, 06:19:53 AM

The argument stated by WindFury that "Institutional investors will come back and take Bitcoin to six digits" is undoubtedly supported by this. We can clearly see the beginning of it. Right in front of our eyes, the bull market is already beginning.

Whales, institutional investors are game makers. They set up the game and manipulate the market to get profit from the game they are playing and want to play. They bring capital that is big to set up the game but later, they are not fuels to bring the market to higher highs. Retail investors and gamblers who use high leverage with their tradings will be main factors to fuel the market in bullish time.

Forced liquidations on retail investors, stupid traders will bring price to peaks, not institutional investors. Institutional investors will complete their games and take profit by distribution their coins to retail investors, traders when they see price is rising to peaks and the market sentiment is very FOMO.

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They are doing this at a good moment, and I find this to be interesting. They currently have a sizable consumer base and want to expand on it. They are aware that due to the widespread global adoption, their shares would increase in value and, consequently, so will the prices. The argument stated by WindFury that "Institutional investors will come back and take Bitcoin to six digits" is undoubtedly supported by this. We can clearly see the beginning of it. Right in front of our eyes, the bull market is already beginning.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2023, 08:35:59 PM

I am not arguing, I am only saying that China is slowly opening their borders for the cryptospace through Hong Kong as the go between and I think this is a positive development compared to the crackdowns being done by uncle Gary. There is more news besides the Hong Kong ETF article that already shows this.

You're grasping at straws that really don't make sense to grasp on since your main thesis is that China is becoming more crypto friendly than the US. And the fact is that what is happening in HK has nothing to do with Bitcoin or the Chinese position towards it.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2023, 08:35:59 PM

Also, about ETFs in America, futures ETFs that were already approved are different from spot ETFs. Spot ETFs invests in real Bitcoin.

I don't know why you think you need to teach me about the difference between spot and futures ETF, and I tell you in my previous post that futures BTC ETF has been around for years in the US, and your Uncle Gary has nothing against it. You and many think that the SEC is fighting Bitcoin, when in fact all this fight is directed against shitcoins, and then what are you even talking about when comparing China and the US in the context of cryptocurrencies?

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So does HSBC allow customers to trade real bitcoin (meaning I can deposit my own bitcoin to HSBC account) or bitcoin trades will be in-bank only (like Paypal had) ? My local bank also allow me to trade stocks, but they are like numbers and letters only. They only have names of popular stocks, but I cant withdraw them and trade them elsewhere. Wont it be with HSBC that it is just another instrument the bank earns with (earns on commissions), but not a step to adoption.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2023, 10:20:18 PM

It is head shaking that uncle Gary, the SEC and the American government are cracking down on the cryptospace while a communist country like China are slowly allowing it through Hong Kong as the go between.

Another head shaking thought is only 2 years ago, China and Hong Kong were banning people under their jurisdictions from using crypto hehe. They were also closing people's bank accounts because they had transactions related to cryptocoin exchanges and services.

Are we in a simulation?

It's just Hongkong not China, and even if China is involved, I can sense that it's going to be the same thing that they've done in the past, it's push and pull when it comes to China but with Hongkong and their quasi and limited time autonomy, it's a different thing because Hongkong is populated by billionaires right, the money in Hongkong is just too big that they can't allow bitcoin trading there and China always do this thing, didn't they ban gambling in mainland but made it the main reason to visit Macau?

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Honestly, the Hongkong government is really funny. This country is just showing that they want to be a well-known country that welcomes Bitcoin or Cryptocurrency, think for yourself that their government is making a way for their subjects to adopt the spread of Bitcoin or crypto in their country.

It can be said that the Hongkong community is very lucky that they have a government that is open to this kind of Bitcoin industry or crypto space.

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Expect more to be coming im this regard because more countries and organizations will keep on showing interest o bitcoin despite the strict regulations in some locations, that doesn't stops others from going further in expression of interest since everyone is independent by himself and can decide to either adopt bitcoin or not just as El-Savador did when it make it own adoption, they never look backwards or considers what others are saying.

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on June 27, 2023, 12:02:56 PM

Totally agreed, as i read a topic yesterday having the same issue concerns about connections of Banking Sector in the Crypto world and how it could affect the industry. Well, the point was the same which is if you do not own the key then the coins are not yours.

If you invest in Bitcoin ETFs, you will do like invest in tokenized Bitcoin tokens, not actual Bitcoin.

Tokenized Bitcoin projects can have de-pegs and lose their token values and Bitcoin ETFs can have problems with their finance and file for bankruptcies. You as an investor, will lose money.

Risk for tokenized BTC tokens and Bitcoin ETFs are big enough to not use them if you can get access to buy bitcoin. You always have choices to buy bitcoins if you don't be convinced by convenience from Bitcoin ETFs or tokenized BTC tokens.

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Quote from: Lucius on June 27, 2023, 08:02:00 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2023, 10:20:18 PM

It is head shaking that uncle Gary, the SEC and the American government are cracking down on the cryptospace while a communist country like China are slowly allowing it through Hong Kong as the go between.
~snip~

I don't see any point in your post given that futures BTC ETF has been around in the US for some time, and HK is a special administrative region of China, and therefore what happens in HK cannot be an indicator that China has changed its attitude towards Bitcoin in any way.

In addition, the bank in question was not so long ago at the center of financial scandals and is considered one of the most corrupt banks in the world, but everyone seems to have forgotten that.

I wouldn't look forward to anything that has anything to do with China when it comes to Bitcoin, and I don't get anyone who thinks that communism and anything to do with decentralization and human freedom can succeed in one such country.

I am not arguing, I am only saying that China is slowly opening their borders for the cryptospace through Hong Kong as the go between and I think this is a positive development compared to the crackdowns being done by uncle Gary. There is more news besides the Hong Kong ETF article that already shows this.

Also, about ETFs in America, futures ETFs that were already approved are different from spot ETFs. Spot ETFs invests in real Bitcoin.

In any case, I predict that China will also open Shanghai for the cryptospace by 2026. It might not be something open to any coin. Only whitelisted coins might be allowed to trade which will certainly include Bitcoin and Ethereum.

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Quote from: Woodrose on June 26, 2023, 09:21:59 PM

Someday, banks will completely embrace the positivity of crypto.

Only when I have bitcoins, why do I need banks if I can pay directly with bitcoins without any intermediaries? Banks and investment funds are gradually showing more and more interest in bitcoin, but I do not think that this contributes to its adoption. It looks more like the banks want to control it and prevent people from using finance without banks. I don't really like that large centralized corporations want to concentrate a significant part of bitcoins under their control.

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Quote from: Woodrose on June 26, 2023, 09:21:59 PM

A string of cryptocurrency news outlets reported that HSBC Hong Kong is giving its customers
Now we can say that the adoption of cryptocurrency is becoming wide. I hope someday in this country where I am working will adopt cryptocurrency, specially in banking. I hope someday we are all accessible in trading/transfering of funds through crypto. Someday, banks will completely embrace the positivity of crypto.

The adoption of crypto in the Banking sector doesn't affect the main purpose of decentralization proposed by the very first crypto BTC? Yet, in the quoted text, they have written, this slight adoption must not have that much impact on the market in popularity way. But still, this news is being shared as something big has happened.

Even, though you showed your excitement too, which of course is not bad but Hong Kong has already a second hub of China to test its limits on the adoption of crypto and in what way it could impact its economy with it. This news has proved that something is being manipulated in the market. That we will see in the near future. But for now, why not fill our pockets with profits? This is no doubt good news but for newbies to manipulate their mindset to lure them into thinking that crypto is all good now and it is ok for them to invest now in it.

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Quote from: UchihaSarada on June 27, 2023, 02:55:48 AM

You won't have bitcoin if you use your money to invest into ETFs. It is for people who don't want to reduce risk by directly buying bitcoins and hold bitcoins. ETFs will expose more people with Bitcoin and cryptocurrency market but if they are wise, they will directly buy bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.

Totally agreed, as i read a topic yesterday having the same issue concerns about connections of Banking Sector in the Crypto world and how it could affect the industry. Well, the point was the same which is if you do not own the key then the coins are not yours.

But TBH, i do not really have a great idea behind the working of ETFs, so before writing anything more, i will look into it too but i do get the idea from your post that ETFs mean getting registered with the government and then buying the government's verified BTC, which will be own by Government.

Quote from: UchihaSarada on June 27, 2023, 03:04:24 AM

We are witnessing big changes in the USA. with more eyes on Gary Gensler and SEC. With this tightening trend, the USA. will not let cryptocurrency and blockchain companies move to other countries.

This conversation has been done so many times but still, the thing is crypto is not centralized, so how can only US government and US citizen could get there hands on the crypto industry and can control it. As, crypto is decentralized and shared by all countries on the globe.

Topic: [INFO]Hong Kong's HSBC Allows Customers to Trade Bitcoin. (Read 241 times)