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Topic: Instawallet introduces new approach to instant payment: Green address technique - page 4. (Read 30212 times)

sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
This won't work out if you got eventually an orphan block first confirmed transaction. The block may be marked ORPHAN if integrity of the network would be broken for some time, so this transaction will be confirmed in other chain a lot of blocks later or may be even lost(?). That's why it's recommended to wait untiil 100 confirmations. I suppose it's quite easy to separate bitcoin clients and break network for hours or days.

I think you're confusing a couple of different things. The network enforces (I think?) 120 confirmations for generated coins, because in the event of a network split, coins generated and then spent during the split are the most problematic. For regular transactions, the client enforces a wait of 6 confirmations, but that is merely a client rule.
member
Activity: 224
Merit: 10
Question: Does this help with anonymity or does it create some "plausible deniability"?

+1

Any thoughts on this?
It's anonymous until someone looks at instawallet's logs. In the blockchain your BTC would not be known unless you deposited then took out a really unique amount. If the person can't see their logs then they can't know who's BTC are yours if you took out with a green address.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1022
No Maps for These Territories
Question - where would I be able to see this specific address?  When I look at my Bitcoin Client received transactions it simply states "From: unknown" and doesn't provide the address the coins originated from.  
I've patched my UI so that it shows the list of input addresses in the transaction details in "-debug" mode. Could be useful, it should eventually move out of debug mode but that'd need a user friendly way to present it.
vip
Activity: 1052
Merit: 1155
Question: Does this help with anonymity or does it create some "plausible deniability"?

+1

Any thoughts on this?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 251
FirstBits: 168Bc
No special meaning (well maybe green as a symbol for "go ahead, it's safe"). I just picked a name for it so it's easier to talk about it.

I suppose the name 'instawallet' was already taken. Smiley I agree with a later poster. Green has little to do with it. Rather instant and trustworthy = Instantrust?


I would have hoped your address would be more memorable, perhaps a "vanity" address with short 5 character firstbits. The best I can do for mnemonic is CoDe-YeS-W.
I was thinking of creating a vanity address, but then decided not to do it. I was wondering if people might start relying on recognizing the address from memory. That might be dangerous, as it is not hard to create another vanity address that looks similar and that might slip by such a "manual check". So this way people might rather give the task of comparing it to a computer, which tends to not be fouled by these things. ;-)

Are you familiar with firstbits? It is short, unambiguous and decentralized - indeed all that is required is the block chain and a simple algorithm. Your "green" address is 1cdysw and nothing more (nor less). The genesis address was '1'. All others are 2+ characters.

However, I guess the SENDING address does not need to be as memorable as the RECEIVING address.

Why not patch the C++ client to accept a list of "green addresses" from bitcoin.conf and display 0/green_unconfirmed in the transaction log? I expect you'll find support for it. Later we can consider a more complex DECENTRALIZE WOT model. You are in the best position to immediately implement this and see how sticky the patch is. We vote with fork pulls.
Interesting suggestion. But I think that is putting a little bit too much stuff into the Bitcoin daemon which isn't really related to the "core" protocol. I would (and probably will soon) rather go the way of providing an RPC call that returns input addresses used by a transaction and then build an external tool around that.

It seems a purely presentation layer feature. I already see 0/unconfirmed transactions. All that has to happen is that the presentation logic recognizes the sending address, matches it against a list, and displays 0/green_unconfirmed.


in some situations you can _only_ accept instant payments ... ATM machine shows QR code, says "please use a green address", ... user comes along who ignores the "please use a green address"

Sure, but then you need a hand shaking protocol and never send the receiving address before confirming the client/user groks the green address concept.

  USR: Hello, I wanna buy a cola
  ATM: Hello, it's 0.25 BTC, payable by 1A, 1B, 1C, 1CDysW, 1D green addresses
  USR: Great, I love green addresses, what's your address?
  ATM: 1bitcola
  USR: You can expect that from 1CDysW
  ATM: Got it, Thanks. Now here's your cola
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Jan - off-topic but can you add a QR image to your website home page that has the wallet bitcoin address?  you can get a free generator from Google's Chart API.  That will make it much easier to send money to the Instawallet!
full member
Activity: 222
Merit: 100
www.btcbuy.info
This won't work out if you got eventually an orphan block first confirmed transaction. The block may be marked ORPHAN if integrity of the network would be broken for some time, so this transaction will be confirmed in other chain a lot of blocks later or may be even lost(?). That's why it's recommended to wait untiil 100 confirmations. I suppose it's quite easy to separate bitcoin clients and break network for hours or days.

Sometimes it is cheaper to bear a loss, than to lose a customer
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 10
This won't work out if you got eventually an orphan block first confirmed transaction. The block may be marked ORPHAN if integrity of the network would be broken for some time, so this transaction will be confirmed in other chain a lot of blocks later or may be even lost(?). That's why it's recommended to wait untiil 100 confirmations. I suppose it's quite easy to separate bitcoin clients and break network for hours or days.
full member
Activity: 222
Merit: 100
www.btcbuy.info
Is this service already in production? I would certainly like to support it on btcbuy.info , I am advertising my service as a "quick" one, but the fact is that I have to wait for a confirmation, which often adds a lot of extra time to the wait
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
Question: Does this help with anonymity or does it create some "plausible deniability"?
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
I like the concept but don't like the name. Green is used these days as something eco friendly, which has nothing to do with this concept.

You should call it something like "trusted address" or maybe a geeky name like "zero conf address"

Just my 2 bitcents.
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
member
Activity: 224
Merit: 10
Pretty neat. Can someone fake the from address? It won't make it in a block but could they fake a transaction with a fake from address? Or if the private key was stolen you would have to have some way of revoking the "green address".
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Brilliant idea.

Well done.

There is probably scope for making this green address idea peer-to-peer in parallel with bitcoin itself.

For example, one could broadcast an address to a "green" node, and it will be rebroadcast until one of the nodes broadcasts back with, say, a GPG signature of the key.  Then you can load up as many public keys from trusted "green" providers as one wishes in your shopping basket.

jav
sr. member
Activity: 249
Merit: 251
Question - where would I be able to see this specific address?  When I look at my Bitcoin Client received transactions it simply states "From: unknown" and doesn't provide the address the coins originated from.  

An existing tool that can show this is the list of unconfirmed transactions at http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ .
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
Question - where would I be able to see this specific address?  When I look at my Bitcoin Client received transactions it simply states "From: unknown" and doesn't provide the address the coins originated from.  

People can use blockexplorer.com to see the orginating address but that isn't instant.
jav
sr. member
Activity: 249
Merit: 251
If you expect a lot of services to show up and offer these, you are going to need to find a way to negotiate which providers are acceptable to a merchant.

Indeed. This is what I was aiming at with this paragraph:

Going further, it might become necessary at some point for a merchant to communicate which green addresses they accept. For this I propose the additional parameter "green_address_details=URI", where URI points to a JSON document describing acceptable green addresses. The format for this document should be extensible, as to allow both static addresses as well as pointing to yet other places (maybe some from of global green address directory?).
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
Firstbits: 1gyzhw
A client with a decent interface could just have an address book with a "trusted" checkbox next to people in the address list. If an address belongs to a trusted party, it could be a green "0/unconfirmed (trusted)" or whatever.

Merchants and providers could just let users download a vCard containing their bitcoin address, and/or have it embedded in their contact pages using an appropriate XHTML microformat.
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
If you expect a lot of services to show up and offer these, you are going to need to find a way to negotiate which providers are acceptable to a merchant.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1022
No Maps for These Territories
Very nice idea, great that someone finally implemented it!

And now we have a good reason to let the be able to show the source addresses somehow Smiley
Quote
Fair enough if the community finds consensus or demands this, but I don't immediately see the need. I would be worried that merchants will just as soon accept "Google" bitcoin payments only to the detriment of great services like Instawallet.
I think this fear is unfounded. The green address would only help for trusting 0-confirmation transactions from certain sources. The rest can wait for 1..6 confirmations as normal.

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