Topic: Instead of Prisons? (Read 1775 times)

Judging from the unnecessary and irrational hostility you've displayed it's obvious you feel that way. I wish you'd present your argument and tell us why instead of wasting computing power with insults.

But I know you're going to post something dumb like, "I WISH YOU WOULDN'T *insert insult here*". Ugh.

The truth is that there is a genetic component to the behavior of lots of violent criminals -- sociopathy, et. al -- that CAN'T be fixed

2. Exile to the past via a one way time-gate (as described by Julian May in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Many-Colored_Land )

I bolded the operative statement that clearly demonstrates from your own words that you are operating from a place of emotional bias rather than logic and facts, as I said from the beginning of your little tirade.

Human nature have been developing in process of natural selection, which leaved many traits that are obsolete for modern society. I think it obvious that revenge must be suppressed if society wants progress.

The truth is that there is a genetic component to the behavior of lots of violent criminals -- sociopathy, et. al -- that CAN'T be fixed, so unless this is looked at on a case-by-case basis and the system picks out the exceptions to the rules, all this talk about rehabilitation is just a waste of time, one that I feel is advocated by people who are only doing this to make themselves feel better and not for the good of society.

   Any other comments on the idea I described?

   I've been working on an idea for a while, this seems like a chance to put it up for comment.

It's basically hybridizing the refuge camp and the prison. The idea is that if you group criminals together, they are going to become more criminal. If I hang out with southerners, eventually I am going to develop a drawl- peer group influences behavior. So criminals need contact with people who they can learn good habits from. The US accepts refugees all the time from places where there are wars or oppression going on, and the idea is to get these people working in small facilities on patches of land, say, a house with 8 bedrooms each with 2 to 4 bunk beds, a big communal kitchen and living area, a workshop and a farm. Maybe a few goats and cows, chickens, vegetables, corn and potatoes and some fruit trees, beehive and duck pond. Maybe a workshop for furniture, window frames, clothing. Take 10 low risk inmates selected for the program because of good behavior in prison, and 10 recent immigrants from Africa and Asia, and 4 -6 staff. The immigrants can get green cards based on good work results, and the inmates can get their sentence reduced.

    This way there is a majority of non-criminals in the work group, so the momentum of peer pressure in the groip will be towards non-criminal behavior. Since the immigrants and the criminals can both work for less than minimum wage to secure their early release or green card, the projects can be self sustaining. Currently eajch prisoner costs over 20k a year- a project like this could cost half that, since they would produce their own food, and the food and crafts could even be sold at a profit. In the mean time people would build relationships, learn work ethic, and learn non-criminal thinking. Bad behavior or violence would mean getting sent back to prison or having the visa revoked. Prisoners could be tracked with a tracking chip, so if they run off they would be easily found again. There would also be cultural exchange and people could learn about other parts of the world and maybe broaden their horizons.

    This would just be a way to reduce the number of people in prison and kind of decentralize the system.

Are you ever gonna answer my question?

Its clear you live in your own little reality bubble and are determined to not let any conflicting ideas in. Don't let facts stop you from distorting reality into what you want it to be. For the record I was having a discussion when you joined in with the hostility first. What does that say about you? Nice "quote" BTW. Extrapolate some more maybe you can blame 9-11 on me too if you try reeeealy hard.

Sorry man, but it's pretty clear you feel that way about me. When you saw my posts, you immediately flew off the handle and went into a rage because you clearly think that I feel that way, even though I stated I don't agree with the prison system for the reasons you stated, among many others.

Your hostility is keeping you from understanding what I was asking and talking about. I was talking about merely the revenge aspect of what you are proposing. Perhaps instead of immediately condemning and being hostile to people who are skeptical of your views, you could calm down and explain yourself more. I'm not trying to attack you nor did I intend to come off that way at all.

Now, as to my question. You did not answer it, you deflected it with hostility. In your first post in this thread, you said:


Clearly you feel your system should NOT be used as a kind of revenge, but when I point out that it would in fact be so (and the way you describe it and considering the way reality works, the victim probably would be overseeing or controlling what happens to the prisoner to some degree), you tried to sell the idea as a kind of revenge. When I questioned you about the hypocrisy of it, you instead tried to change the subject. But this isn't about how either you or I are arguing, this is about my question.

If this working-for-the-victim-as-reparation system is a form of revenge (which you said it is) and that is clearly acceptable to you, then why would you complain about revenge at all? Why condemn one system for being revenge-based, but promote your own revenge-based system?

If you feel your system would be better than the status quo in other regards, what's the point of bringing up revenge?

so encourage illegal immigrations in order to stop criminals. wt

its human nature to want revenge. that isnt bad itself, its about how u get the revenge and how much

One criminal can spoil a lot of non criminals in your scenario.

Also - who in their right mind would volunteer to stay beside that certain criminal in the first place?

I would love to see the quote where I called you "a republican bible-basher with an unhealthy bloodlust".

If you want to spend half of your paycheck paying to incarcerate alcoholics for being alcoholics, drug addicts for being drug addicts, and poor people for being poor that's fine - just don't expect the rest of society to help you. If you really think our country (taxpayers) can afford to keep incarcerating more than 2.5 million people and growing, you are truly ignorant. Go take your liberal bashing bullshit rhetoric to a liberal.

In your little scenario you assume a lot of things, like you would personally be overseeing the criminal that committed a crime against you. That is pretty moronic even by your standards. No one in their right mind would put the life of a human in your hands. As you pointed out sadistic individuals like yourself would commit further crimes abusing that individual, most likely leading to that person murdering you in your home because they cant take it any more. You make lots of assumptions about me and why I have the opinions I do. I will be the one to decide why I have an opinion thank you.

Funny how you skipped over the whole funding of 2.5 million people in prison part. I wonder why?

Why are punishments almost always centered around revenge rather than restitution for the victims? maybe Jake needs mandatory employment working for the victim until he works off a suitable sum in proportion to the damages caused? In the case of murder, in many states they take the life of the murderer. Why not take that life and put it to constructive use rather than just ending life in revenge?

Well, you argued that the American prison system is bad because it's nothing but a form of biblical-style revenge, and in your first post you were complaining about punishments being centered around revenge and not restitution for the victims. You also think that I'm a Republican bible-basher with an unhealthy bloodlust, a perception that people who think the way you apparently do have, so it's pretty clear you do feel that way.

You never did answer my question, by the by. Why complain that a system is bad because it is based on revenge, and then advocate another system that's potentially worse because it's a more beneficial revenge in your eyes? Shouldn't all revenge be bad?

Why complain that a system is bad because it is based on revenge, and then advocate another system that's potentially worse because it's a more beneficial revenge in your eyes? Shouldn't all revenge be bad?

Perhaps it is because I never said those things, you are projecting them onto me, and making assumptions about my beliefs not based on what I said but your own twisted extrapolation of what you guess that I believe. You are making statements then attributing them to me when I said no such thing. That is just about equivalent with a personal attack in my book, certainly just as ignorant. Why don't you go find a democrat so you can work out your republican vs democrat asinine dualist rhetoric with someone who cares to participate in your red vs blue circle jerk.

So if it's a form of revenge then why all the "I'm above petty revenge" bullshit here? Why all the ad-homs? Why are you taking this so personally?

You are correct, it is a form of revenge. A form of revenge that produces constructive results for society helping to reconstruct the damage the loss that individual caused, as well as reducing the incentive to turn prisons into a commercial endeavor which drives arrest quotas. This as opposed to a system which is not only NOT constructive but creates even a further burden on society.

In your little scenario you assume a lot of things, like you would personally be overseeing the criminal that committed a crime against you. That is pretty moronic even by your standards. No one in their right mind would put the life of a human in your hands. As you pointed out sadistic individuals like yourself would commit further crimes abusing that individual, most likely leading to that person murdering you in your home because they cant take it any more. You make lots of assumptions about me and why I have the opinions I do. I will be the one to decide why I have an opinion thank you.

Funny how you skipped over the whole funding of 2.5 million people in prison part. I wonder why?