Institutional investors are buying Bitcoin's future... How do we stop this?

oHnK

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Quote from: Text on February 25, 2021, 09:28:42 PM

Maybe we should not worry because it is all speculation. Whatever their plan, maybe they will not own it for a long time to the point that it is no longer in use. They will still use that no matter what happens just by integrating their system or platform. As far as I know, no one can control the market because even if they collect all the Bitcoin it will not stop circulating until it is all mined.

Right now I see that what is more worrying are speculators than investors who buy a lot of coins. Because the price of BTC dropped there was also the involvement of speculators, and what saved yesterday's price were investors too. OP may lack detail seeing every aspect. Speculators who should be aware of their decisions that sometimes panic the market.

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Maybe we should not worry because it is all speculation. Whatever their plan, maybe they will not own it for a long time to the point that it is no longer in use. They will still use that no matter what happens just by integrating their system or platform. As far as I know, no one can control the market because even if they collect all the Bitcoin it will not stop circulating until it is all mined.

Twentyonepaylots

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I'm actually all for both the advancement of bitcoin as an asset and as a currency as well. So institutions purchasing huge amounts of bitcoin both gladden me and at the same time scares me as well. But we can't really do much about it since bitcoin is available for everyone, and that includes the 1% of the society, what we could just hope for right now is that we catch up rather quickly so they can't control the market. And invite more small-time investors to outnumber their purchased assets, doesn't matter whether we run out of bitcoins or not.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: chaoscoinz on February 25, 2021, 12:18:54 PM

There's nothing anyone can do to possibly stop it. How does one stop money exactly? I feel your sentiment though. When the institutional investors join in and come flooding with cash, the price might start to fluctuate violently. If those same investors where to pull out the same way in which they came pouring in, there would be a massive move on the markets every time. Look back at what happened the other day when the price had sharply fallen, I'm not an expert, but big money does mean bigger trouble in this instance.

I don't agree with your statements. So you are saying that the volatility was lower when the institutional investment was not there. It is simply not true. Back in 2015 and 2016, there were incidents in which the prices fluctuated by as much as 30% or 40% in a single day. Therefore I would argue that the institutions have lowered the volatility levels. BTW, why should long-term investors worry about price volatility? Temporary fluctuations should not impact them.

chaoscoinz

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There's nothing anyone can do to possibly stop it. How does one stop money exactly? I feel your sentiment though. When the institutional investors join in and come flooding with cash, the price might start to fluctuate violently. If those same investors where to pull out the same way in which they came pouring in, there would be a massive move on the markets every time. Look back at what happened the other day when the price had sharply fallen, I'm not an expert, but big money does mean bigger trouble in this instance.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Lucius on February 18, 2021, 10:52:35 AM

The answer is simple - we can’t stop anyone who has the money and intent to buy BTC to buy as much and when they want.

Seriously--it's a free market, and I don't think any of us would want it any other way. I'm pretty sure Satoshi would want bitcoin to be freely traded, with anyone being able to buy or sell as much as they want, including big corporations, government institutions, whatever.

So not only can't we stop these uber-deep pocketed companies from buying spitloads of bitcoin, I don't think we would want to even if we could. There's plenty of bitcoin to go around, and I'd also point out that bitcoin (and a lot of long-time hodlers) have benefited greatly from all of this institutional buying. I'm not hearing many complaints around here.

whyrqa

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I am sure that those high rates of cryptocurrency rates that are on the market today were due to large investors, including institutional capital. I am more than sure that large investors will most of all support their asset, and not speculate with it in the cryptocurrency market. I am also confident that due to this, over time, Bitcoin prices will rise and be more stable, and volatility will decrease. It is then that we can hope for the recognition of Bitcoin by every government and the use of coins as a means of payment in human everyday life.

paxmao

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We can´t and we should not. There are many people that are not familiar with bitcoin yet they can participate from the ecosystem by using funds and such. I would not even consider doing that myself, since to all risks involved I would also be adding the agency risk (the change of the agent going down or robbing), but there are many who will join the ecosystem and that will benefit us all.

Vishnu.Reang

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It is actually quite simple. If you want to stop the institutions buying up coins, then you can offer better rates and purchase the coins from the market. The available supply is quite limited, so in case you mop up all the available supply, then the institutional investors won't be able to execute their plans. So you can organize a few whales and place multiple orders across the exchanges. Institutions have a specific target price, so in case the prices go above that level, they are not going to buy coins.

And this is going to benefit investors like me as well. The exchange rates will rise and we will be able to book profits at higher levels. And the best part is that the institutional investors are not going to target more than 2-3 exchanges. For example, Tesla got all of their $1.5 billion worth of BTC from Coinbase. So the OP don't need to try too hard to cover all the small and medium sized exchanges.

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I remember the movie I watched on Netflix last year titled "In the Shadow of the Moon", it was sci-fi, the scientist invented time travel, a woman from the future was given a mission that goes to the present time to prevent or destroy plans or obstructions that may give undue inconvenience to them in the future. It looks like Bitcoin, if that is their intention then hopefully all its users, whether rich or not, will be free, equal, and still receive the benefit of using it without intending to destroy the system.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: Kakmakr on February 18, 2021, 03:50:54 AM

What happens if transactions on-chain are replaced with off-chain transactions in ledgers? It reduces the available supply of coins

Off chain transactions and hoarding could inflate the supply of coins.

ETFs and exchanges could utilize a fractional reserve approach. In terms of them issuing ownership for a higher number of crypto assets than they hold.

Tether's approach to reserves is one we may be wise to demand from off chain ledgers.

Quote from: Kakmakr on February 18, 2021, 03:50:54 AM

How can we stop that from happening? ...... Let's discuss, because this will be interesting to see how we will be countering this unintended attack. Wink

It can't be prevented.

The only answer is to continue to research, learn, build, invent, innovate.

In the belief new inventions and innovations will continue to open doors. Present new options and opportunities to society. Which will elevate standard of living and pave the way to brighter tomorrows.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: Mauser on February 22, 2021, 05:14:38 AM

I don't think there are many ways to stop it. But honestly, do really want to do it? In my opinion the futures market is nothing bad. Once commodities and currency are established as an attractive market it is just a matter of time before bankers start developing financial derivatives. So having a big future market just means that there are many people interested in buying bitcoins in the future. S
They want to profit of Bitcoin's without actually holding them.

One way to stop it would be to not sell your coins to them.

It depends on what you want to limit or stop, otherwise it is actually quite good that they are buying it. For example futures is a level, in the sense that if you want to stop futures you just have to stop the companies that provide that service, it is not really about bitcoin itself, nobody controls bitcoin, nobody controls your purchase or sale of bitcoin, it is only a few companies that has futures that they are stopping in which case that is a limited number of companies and I would be fine with it.

Of course we have to make sure that it is always the companies and exchanges and so forth that deal with crypto that gets regulations and government intervention and not the product itself, if bitcoin or any other crypto itself was ever investigated and banned in a nation that would be very bad, so we should always hope that government only focuses on the business' and not the coins.

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Quote from: el kaka22 on February 22, 2021, 04:23:46 AM

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The real big trouble I fear is the manipulation, they have sooooo much bitcoin that they could literally drop the price whenever they want by selling their coins, or they could just tweet and increase the prices as we have seen before. So, the real problem is not that they could make it internal since that looks not that possible whereas the real trouble is having manipulation by the rich.

People who have large capital, of course they can control it or can say the manipulation they want because tens of thousands of bitcoins are certain to be held by them to mess up the market.
So for me every institution has their future plans with bitcoin but do not know how to destroy it for the future if it intends to do so, but for me their internal objectives are very good where bitcoin in the short term can surpass other assets in the near future, and would it be a more serious problem if they bought it for the future?

Mauser

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I don't think there are many ways to stop it. But honestly, do really want to do it? In my opinion the futures market is nothing bad. Once commodities and currency are established as an attractive market it is just a matter of time before bankers start developing financial derivatives. So having a big future market just means that there are many people interested in buying bitcoins in the future. S
They want to profit of Bitcoin's without actually holding them.

One way to stop it would be to not sell your coins to them.

el kaka22

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I do not think that it will become internal ledger like that, that is a very low possibility unless they offer some great situation, like maybe make bitcoin nearly free and instant to move around if you want to, instead of the current situation where you pay like crazy for transaction fees and still wait nearly an hour for it. That is why I do not think that there is any situation where crypto people would change all of the things we have right now and go move with the big companies would be really not an option for most of us.

The real big trouble I fear is the manipulation, they have sooooo much bitcoin that they could literally drop the price whenever they want by selling their coins, or they could just tweet and increase the prices as we have seen before. So, the real problem is not that they could make it internal since that looks not that possible whereas the real trouble is having manipulation by the rich.

kaya11

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This is alarming, is it a possibility that they knew about these and keep on doing so just to make sure the experiment fails? Or is there something written in code of Bitcoin Vore to overcome such kind of problems. Maybe the creator of BTC already knew these would come and maybe came up with a plan. Talking about theories here. Or would it change the course of your theories if the bitcoin price somehow goes to 1m usd?

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Quote from: Kakmakr on February 18, 2021, 03:50:54 AM

We have seen recent news that some large Institutional investors are buying large amounts of coins. Now, if you are a speculator and trader, this will be good news to you, but if you are into Bitcoin for the technology and the goal for Bitcoin to be a alternative currency, then you should sit up and take notice.

I don't think this will have difference about their plans than what is bitcoin is now.
and i think you are just exaggerating the point here.

Quote

Currently it is estimated that only 3% of the total available coins are being owned by large Institutional corporations, like PayPal, Credit Card companies and Tesla. This is quickly becoming a trend with large Dubai companies also buying large amounts of coins.

Then we must be thankful of this , we are always praying that adoption comes now that it's here we are taking it as a bad concept .
Why is this a threat to Bitcoin's future?

Quote

How can we stop that from happening? ...... Let's discuss, because this will be interesting to see how we will be countering this unintended attack. Wink

Sorry but i won't sustain stopping this , after all this is for the benefits of all users either running from Blockchain or to what they are planning, Look how Miners controlling the fees these days , what is the difference anyway?

Janation

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Quote from: plr on February 20, 2021, 08:21:48 PM

The best that we can do is to educate people on how Bitcoin works and stop patronizing or getting services coming from institutions and only patronize institutions or companies that comply with Bitcoin's principle, if ever Paypal Crypto features comes to my country or they accept people coming from my region, I don't think I'm going to use their service.

That won't change anything here.

You may not use their service but there are millions that would use their service giving them profit and maybe put it in their investment in Bitcoin and execute their plan in the future. They are taking advantage of decentralization, I think in the end it will just fall into these people and we can't do anything but just be ready for what may happen.

plr

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The best that we can do is to educate people on how Bitcoin works and stop patronizing or getting services coming from institutions and only patronize institutions or companies that comply with Bitcoin's principle, if ever Paypal Crypto features comes to my country or they accept people coming from my region, I don't think I'm going to use their service.

sana54210

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on February 19, 2021, 04:50:11 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on February 18, 2021, 03:50:54 AM

How can we stop that from happening? ...... Let's discuss, because this will be interesting to see how we will be countering this unintended attack. Wink

NONE.
There is no way for us to stop those rich people or institutional investor with what they are doing.

There is a famous quote that says "If you can't beat them, join them". What we can do right now is to just ride the waves, set a target sell price and wait after selling. Crypto market is a decentralized market where anybody can buy anything and there is no way for us to stop them. They are a group of rich people and they have a lot of money obviously. We Average Joes can't stop them from buying Bitcoin.

I know that these institutions are buying huge chunks of Bitcoin everyday and the chances of it being manipulated is going higher but there is nothing we can do with it but to be ready if in case the worst case scenario will happen.

It is funny to thing that you could stop people from buying bitcoin, that is the scary part. If there was a method where we could stop rich from buying a lot of bitcoins, how do we know that same method wouldn't be used to stop us from buying bitcoin as well? What if regulations hit us harder instead of rich people? That has been the case for regular stocks and other stuff for example.

You pay a lot more taxes for your salary than a rich guy who owns stocks that made tens of millions of dollars because his stocks went up, most of the time they pay zero until they sell, which means if my stock that worths 10 million dollars became 20 million dollars, I just made 10 million dollars and may have paid zero taxes, whereas someone who works 7.25 dollars an hour in texas during this storm without electricity and harsh working conditions just paid more taxes. I rather have no regulations in crypto like that, equality would be enough.

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