Interesting facts about the merit system

BITCOIN4X

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1150

Quote from: Peanutswar on December 13, 2021, 07:54:02 PM

You cannot stop them because we have a different perspective they want to support altcoin projects, also we have a merit system in the altcoins campaign they don't require too much also few people rank up with the altcoins because their goal is to make in the quota.

One of the most effective method of stopping spammers is to report as often as possible posts that you find off-topic, non-constructive and low-quality to moderators.

Quote from: Peanutswar on December 13, 2021, 07:54:02 PM

Today it makes it hard to rank up because of the merit system and they don't want to spend a lot more time to get it most of the campaign now requires a minimum of full members and it took a long journey to have this because of 100 merits than the member rank of 10 merit requirements. Still it is better to have a quality post than spamming post only it does not benefit the whole community.

Whether or not it is difficult to rank up as long as this merit system exists depends on the user's own interests. If users have a great interest in learning bitcoin then they will probably rank faster without worrying too much about merit. But this will never happen to users who from the start only thought about how to make money through bounty and you may find they don't get a single merit even though the number of posts has reached thousands. If users care about rank then they should make an effort to learn and improve their knowledge about their interests in order to make quality posts.

libert19

hero member

Activity: 2520

Merit: 952

If BM counts shitposting for payments, consider that project already failed one, bounty hunters already pay for it by not getting payments/delays and if they even get the payments they get measly value out of it.

Peanutswar

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1280

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You cannot stop them because we have a different perspective they want to support altcoin projects, also we have a merit system in the altcoins campaign they don't require too much also few people rank up with the altcoins because their goal is to make in the quota. Today it makes it hard to rank up because of the merit system and they don't want to spend a lot more time to get it most of the campaign now requires a minimum of full members and it took a long journey to have this because of 100 merits than the member rank of 10 merit requirements. Still it is better to have a quality post than spamming post only it does not benefit the whole community.

KingsDen

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1081

Goodnight, o_e_l_e_o 🌹

I have never done a bounty and as such might not tell how it works perfectly.
But in a common sense, if I have a project and all I care is the publicity of the project, irrespective of the means of publicity or the reputation of the one behind the publicity. My only problem should be the end result - how viral my project is going

Again, if my primary aim of being in this forum is to gain knowledge, at some point, I should be able to appraise myself and know the amount of knowledge I have gotten.
But if my aim is to be paid with any token, my self appraisal would be to check how fat my portfolio is becoming.

Not everyone values the merit system.

Yet, the number of merits one has does not only define how quality the person is, it hugely defines interest. Some users careless about merits that they will even ask you not to merit them no matter how quality their posts appear.

ShowOff

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1181

Quote from: Sayeds56 on December 07, 2021, 08:43:14 PM

Indeed Bounty Manager have vital role to control quality of posts and some good Managers do take of it and some don't. i think we should initiate debate on this forum to define what is quality post and what is not and make it mandatory for Managers to strictly implement it.

Actually we have long had the correct rule to apply to all forum users if you have paid attention to rules 1 and 2 of this thread: Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ. So I don't think there's any need to argue about what users should do when they join a signature campaign. While the number of users who care about the quality of posts in my opinion is very small compared to spammers, it is true that the merit system has made these users more recognized and they will be stuck in the same rank for a long time until they start to care about quality.

Some bounty managers will care, and many others don't, so they can still accept users with negative tag in their bounty campaign. I think it's the manager's decision how he builds his campaign management well, but of course this will open up opportunities for scammers to get a place in the campaign and get paid.

Sayeds56

copper member

Activity: 1316

Merit: 715

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: Mahdirakib on December 06, 2021, 11:00:36 AM

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

The main factor remain because of the quality of the posts, so it's only natural that bounty hunters always have trouble getting merit and rank up.

This is because, most of the bounty participants make their posts in altcoins section. And the altcoins section doesn't have any merit source. Moreover, they doesn't make good qualitative post in altcoins section which deserve merits. While Bitcoin signature campaign participants spread their post all around the forum and you will find good qualitative post from them.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

Can you think of anything to change their behavior about this especially in an effort to reduce spam on this forum?

Almost every bounty hunters consider the forum as a source of earnings. It's not possible to change their behavior until they change their mentality. The campaign manger search for qualitative posters for BTC paying campaigns. On the other hand, bounty manger doesn't search for good posters always (unless the campaign is run by a good manger). Many of them just pick some users to run the advertisement.

True. I have been promoting bounties since past one year and mostly I join signature campaign and try my level best to make versatile and quality posts while meeting the Targeted quantity. Indeed Bounty Manager have vital role to control quality of posts and some good Managers do take of it and some don't. i think we should initiate debate on this forum to define what is quality post and what is not and make it mandatory for Managers to strictly implement it.

BITCOIN4X

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1150

Quote from: Pmalek on December 07, 2021, 04:34:34 AM

~Snip
Established members and merit sources have altcoin subs on ignore or they simply don't go there. Bounty hunters post mainly in those sections. Add those two pieces of info together and you get the reason why those willing to discuss things normally are users who get merited and are meriting others with similar interests.

I've been ignoring altcoin boards for some time because I know I can't achieve good quality posts there which I think will only make my posts more likely to be reported/deleted. Indeed there is nothing wrong with altcoin board if users can post on topics that are constructive enough, this allows them to increase the insight of other users whose understanding is still subpar.

As you said, the best post quality standard is when the poster is willing to engage in an interesting discussion where they can interact with each other based on their knowledge and experience on the forum. This is the best advice I've ever received when I was struggling to improve post quality, so I've chosen to keep it until now.

Stalker22

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1359

Bounty hunters (in the altcoins section) only care about the merit system if it is a requirement for participating in the campaign. They probably don't even care what else is on the forum. Almost all of them only care about their bounty payment, and they are not paid to read comments or participate in discussions. What is worse, the vast majority of them have more than one account on this forum, which requires a great deal of time to manage them all.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

The problem with bounty hunters is that they don't understand that they can participate in their bounties but still make some effort to create decent posts in other areas of the forum. But they don't care, and they don't want to do that. That's why many users don't like them. Especially social media spammers. Why can't you be a designer who creates artwork for new projects, does translations, or writes articles, but in the same time has a genuine interest in Bitcoin and participates in discussions on those subjects like a normal human being? You don't get many of those. Bounty hunters are mostly focused on their tokens.

Established members and merit sources have altcoin subs on ignore or they simply don't go there. Bounty hunters post mainly in those sections. Add those two pieces of info together and you get the reason why those willing to discuss things normally are users who get merited and are meriting others with similar interests.

Coyster

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1302

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

Can you think of anything to change their behavior about this especially in an effort to reduce spam on this forum?

I understand all the points you made, but I don't think there is any need narrowing it down to the sort of campaign one is in, merits actually have nothing to with whatever campaign a user is on, I'm reiterating this so users on altcoin bounties don't get the impression that their sort of campaign gives them the 'liberty' to post spam more often than not.

Merits is basically just based on what quality you can generate/produce, it doesn't matter the kind of signature you have on, or if you do not have any at all. The only way there can be a behavioral change based on this is if more users actually understand what exactly the forum is for, if they do then they'll engage in discussions without expecting anything (mostly merits) in return, and that way they get better and become an invaluable member to the community.

skarais

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 2094

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 06, 2021, 10:19:59 AM

Bounty hunters (in general) care about the merit system to the extent that it allows them to rank up, and that's about it. I seriously doubt any of them care about what anybody else is writing, because they're not paid to read or hand out merits--and the vast majority of them are here for the sole purpose of getting paid. There are exceptions, of course, but what I just described is the rule. And OP, you've pretty much presented good supporting evidence for that.

I went through those times on this forum and to be precise before the merit system was introduced in January 2018. But after this system was born there was no best way to rank up and get merit except simply by improving the quality of posts to be more constructive and useful. Without reading and trying, I think people would still have a hard time doing it, and my success since then stems from a growing interest in reading more things and posting them at every opportunity.

OP, you have been recognized as a spam hunter so far based on your reported activity. I only advise you to keep doing it if you intend to keep the forum from spammers. Usually a temporary signature ban or temporary ban will make the spammer change his mind and post behavior and I think it works quite well in some cases.

This might have been the rule if the user kept on making spam posts and most of them were deleted:

7 days ban
14 day ban
30 days ban
Permanent ban

DdmrDdmr

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Using data as of last Friday, and without taking into account banned accounts, I make it 4.438 profiles merited in the last 120 days. The distribution would be as follows:

Code:

nMerits nUsers %Merited120d
---------------------------------------
>10 1076 24,25%
10 89 2,01%
9 79 1,78%
8 105 2,37%
7 103 2,32%
6 155 3,49%
5 201 4,53%
4 243 5,48%
3 276 6,22%
2 658 14,83%
1 1453 32,74%

Now placing the merit bar for campaigns above, let's say, 10 earned Merits over the last 120 days, would currently reduce the number of candidates to 1076 (24,25% of all merited users over the last 120 days). Taking into consideration that those precise profiles are currently likely in slots of the best forum campaigns, the actual available pool for "other" campaigns would be pretty low. I figure that leads to lowering the bar a fair share in many campaigns, and even to giving it a skip.

Mahdirakib

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1026

In Search of Incredible

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

The main factor remain because of the quality of the posts, so it's only natural that bounty hunters always have trouble getting merit and rank up.

This is because, most of the bounty participants make their posts in altcoins section. And the altcoins section doesn't have any merit source. Moreover, they doesn't make good qualitative post in altcoins section which deserve merits. While Bitcoin signature campaign participants spread their post all around the forum and you will find good qualitative post from them.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

Can you think of anything to change their behavior about this especially in an effort to reduce spam on this forum?

Almost every bounty hunters consider the forum as a source of earnings. It's not possible to change their behavior until they change their mentality. The campaign manger search for qualitative posters for BTC paying campaigns. On the other hand, bounty manger doesn't search for good posters always (unless the campaign is run by a good manger). Many of them just pick some users to run the advertisement.

Lucius

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 5637

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Quote from: Porfirii on December 05, 2021, 01:48:51 PM

Linked to this, I really think that managers should ask for a higher amount of merits earned in the last 120 days in order to be accepted in any signature or bounty campaign.

Of course they should demand more, but then the problem would be how to fill in all the available spots in the campaigns. In addition, this criterion is completely meaningless, because each shitposter can in one way or another reach 5 merits in 120 days. Whoever invented this rule did not want to prevent spammers from being paid for what they do best.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

Can you think of anything to change their behavior about this especially in an effort to reduce spam on this forum?

I would say that only two things would be effective, although both are in the realm of the impossible.

The forum bans bounty campaigns, the number of active users falls by 50% +, and so does forum traffic.
Managers are raising the bar and banning Newbie and Jr. Members from participating in bounty campaigns.

Of course, everything revolves around money, and no one will cut the branch they are sitting on - so we can continue to pretend we don't know where the problem is, even though it has long been clear to everyone.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6981

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Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

This fact does not necessarily prove that there is not a single bounty hunter who does not care about the merit system because I think some of them still care about the quality of posts and the merit system.

Bounty hunters (in general) care about the merit system to the extent that it allows them to rank up, and that's about it. I seriously doubt any of them care about what anybody else is writing, because they're not paid to read or hand out merits--and the vast majority of them are here for the sole purpose of getting paid. There are exceptions, of course, but what I just described is the rule. And OP, you've pretty much presented good supporting evidence for that.

Bitcoin-paying sig campaigns are harder to get into than bounties, which seem to accept any member who applies (including alt accounts). So it stands to reason that members who write the best posts and are invested in the forum are going to flock to campaigns instead of bounties. Plus they tend to be members who've been on the forum for a while and know that the tokens that bounties pay out are usually complete shit, and that's in addition to the risk of not getting paid at all.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 05, 2021, 11:58:49 AM

Can you think of anything to change their behavior about this especially in an effort to reduce spam on this forum?

Well that's been discussed ad nauseam over the years, and I'm fresh out of ideas. Theymos could probably come up with solutions, but I think he's satisfied that the merit system has reduced shitposts significantly since its inception (and it has).

isaac_clarke22

sr. member

Activity: 1610

Merit: 264

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on December 06, 2021, 07:01:48 AM

Bounty hunters have very different goals. I am more than sure that almost everyone has several alternative accounts to participate in bounty campaigns. The only thing is that someone knows how to properly hide these accounts, and someone, due to their haste, greed, and inattention, is periodically caught by detectives.

Just by imagining having a farm of accounts, it's more possible that they'll be caught abusing bounties. I recall certain user here in the forum that I caught long time ago due to similar Telegram names. It was only a single post/single mistake that cost the account. Although in a naked eye, judging from their usernames, it is obvious that both are alts.

rozak

sr. member

Activity: 1960

Merit: 273

★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

interesting topic. the discussion that maybe few people pay attention to this.

Bounty hunters focus on what is considered a job. (non-accusable thought).
outside the context of the bounty hunter signature campaign (payment of tokens or altcoins), you can see how accounts are joining social media campaigns. you will even see the fact that there are accounts that 100% only contain posts in the bounty thread in the form of POA and weekly reports.

What can help with this classic problem? I think, is the rules of the bounty manager.

BitTalk21

jr. member

Activity: 32

Merit: 3

https://highdeflation.com [Burning 100% Tx. Fee]

Best way to adjust merit system is if you have earnings here you can only have one account on one ip.
many people disagree with it but this is the only right way to correct merit system.

greed is something that can make people go to any level without controlling it you can't cure it.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

Bounty hunters have very different goals. I am more than sure that almost everyone has several alternative accounts to participate in bounty campaigns. The only thing is that someone knows how to properly hide these accounts, and someone, due to their haste, greed, and inattention, is periodically caught by detectives.
Therefore, they are not baffled by writing good posts. The goals are different, quickly work out your numerous accounts.
But one day the hunters need merit, and then we see their "efforts" to obtain merit, which very often lead to plagiarism and further prohibition.
A recent example: https://loyce.club/archive/posts/5861/58619364.html
Account banned.

Dripstoil

member

Activity: 180

Merit: 65

Quote from: Mpamaegbu on December 05, 2021, 01:53:34 PM

Only a few bounty participants make it a point of duty to write constructively.

I think last week, I saw one important Thread Headline and quickly clicked on it to get some useful responses and to join the discussion. I Read the entire replies but couldn't find any useful response. Every post in that thread sounds like they were written by drunken bots who are also on steroids. Now I get it. Perhaps those posts were made by the Bounty Hunters?

If the thread appears on search engines, everyone who's clicking on it is going to be very disappointed. The mistake I made was that I didn't report the posts but I'm sure someone would do that.

It's going to be almost impossible for anyone in their right mind to merit such posts. I don't really know what Bounty Hunting is or how it works but I think more effort should be put in moderating their posts.

Topic: Interesting facts about the merit system (Read 398 times)