"Internet Kill Switch" | Bitcointalksearch.org

Ekaros

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Quote from: Spendulus on November 20, 2013, 09:27:42 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on November 20, 2013, 05:46:00 PM

....
the blockchain is confirmed through the internet. it's the ledger that says "so and so address (which means wallet) has this amount of BTC." without the internet, BTC would be worth nothing.

I think we are saying the same thing two different ways, but there are implications.

Here's where I'm coming from. Usenet, and FTP, as well as MIRC, are separate protocals from Http. Email is a different protocol, too.

When I think of Internet, it is http and https. These protocols may be useful, but are clearly not required to maintain the blockchain or verify it.

But perhaps when they use a phrase like "Internet Kill Switch" it means shutting all this stuff down.

For me Internet is TCP/IP, with dash of UDP and handfull of others... Okay it's a real mess when you get in too deep. Just look at the wikipedia...

There is two alternatives for "Internet Kill Switch", one is the DNS-system and the other one is lot of inter network connections...
First case isn't impossible to handle, second one is rather deadly.

tacoman71

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In my understanding, it's not about the Internet. It's about shutting down mobile networks in times of "National Emergencies".
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5107676/court-orders-homeland-security-to-release-kill-switch-protocol
In other words CALM DOWN IT'S NOT ABOUT THE INTERNET

Spendulus

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Quote from: beetcoin on November 20, 2013, 05:46:00 PM

....
the blockchain is confirmed through the internet. it's the ledger that says "so and so address (which means wallet) has this amount of BTC." without the internet, BTC would be worth nothing.

I think we are saying the same thing two different ways, but there are implications.

Here's where I'm coming from. Usenet, and FTP, as well as MIRC, are separate protocals from Http. Email is a different protocol, too.

When I think of Internet, it is http and https. These protocols may be useful, but are clearly not required to maintain the blockchain or verify it.

But perhaps when they use a phrase like "Internet Kill Switch" it means shutting all this stuff down.

beetcoin

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Quote from: Spendulus on November 19, 2013, 09:42:23 AM

Quote from: greenlion on November 18, 2013, 11:44:46 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 17, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

The world of 2013 does not get by without the internet.

Does bitcoin actually require the Internet and if so, for what?

Message protocals are not internet protocals. I think....

the blockchain is confirmed through the internet. it's the ledger that says "so and so address (which means wallet) has this amount of BTC." without the internet, BTC would be worth nothing.

Spendulus

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Quote from: Ekaros on November 19, 2013, 11:58:45 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 19, 2013, 09:42:23 AM

Quote from: greenlion on November 18, 2013, 11:44:46 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 17, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

The world of 2013 does not get by without the internet.

Does bitcoin actually require the Internet and if so, for what?

Message protocals are not internet protocals. I think....

No. You could jurry rig it to work over any medium that allows you to transfer data.

Still, it wouldn't be too good... The issue is that it needs to stay in sync, and you can redo transactions in different forks if there is no doublespends, but it get's rather messy if those forks are really long...

Yeah.

Let's think unused capacity on Sirius radio. There are ways the blockchain could easily be kept up.

It doesn't need THE INTERNET.

Ekaros

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Quote from: Spendulus on November 19, 2013, 09:42:23 AM

Quote from: greenlion on November 18, 2013, 11:44:46 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 17, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

The world of 2013 does not get by without the internet.

Does bitcoin actually require the Internet and if so, for what?

Message protocals are not internet protocals. I think....

No. You could jurry rig it to work over any medium that allows you to transfer data.

Still, it wouldn't be too good... The issue is that it needs to stay in sync, and you can redo transactions in different forks if there is no doublespends, but it get's rather messy if those forks are really long...

Schleicher

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Well, you can always use this:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149
Cheesy

Spendulus

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Quote from: greenlion on November 18, 2013, 11:44:46 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 17, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

The world of 2013 does not get by without the internet.

Does bitcoin actually require the Internet and if so, for what?

Message protocals are not internet protocals. I think....

greenlion

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Merit: 500

Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 17, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

The world of 2013 does not get by without the internet.

Spendulus

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Merit: 1386

Quote from: Ekaros on November 17, 2013, 10:05:33 AM

....inside the individual countries it would work, but between there can be major issues. On other hand also inside countries depending the infrastructure, destruction of single or a few points can have major impact.

I'm starting to believe that Internet even working is a small miracle itself... I think it's the most complex thing humans have build...

It doesn't quite work that way. Assume that at some moment in the next year, a major country goes off the Internet. Hackers and other individuals seeing market opportunities, immediately COMPENSATE. The result is massive numbers of interconnected mesh networks, including long haul connections of sorts we may not be able to conceive of today.

If the result is lower long haul bandwidth, then one of the compensatory mechanisms is quicker loading web pages.

Action ..... reaction

Let them hit the kill switch.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: greenlion on November 17, 2013, 04:16:13 AM

Quote from: beetcoin on November 15, 2013, 03:56:47 PM

well the problem is that if the internet went down, the price for BTC would completely crash as fewer people would believe in it or have access to it.

If the internet went down, the price of BTC would be the least of your worries.

Not really, if you are heavily invested in bitcoin it would a primary concern.
The world got by before the Internet, bitcoin didn't.

Ekaros

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on November 17, 2013, 09:38:57 AM

Quote from: greenlion on November 17, 2013, 04:16:13 AM

Quote from: beetcoin on November 15, 2013, 03:56:47 PM

well the problem is that if the internet went down, the price for BTC would completely crash as fewer people would believe in it or have access to it.

If the internet went down, the price of BTC would be the least of your worries.

yes. this would be dramatically for the economy of the world. but its not possible to kill the complete internet, but you can cut of single countries.

Exactly, inside the individual countries it would work, but between there can be major issues. On other hand also inside countries depending the infrastructure, destruction of single or a few points can have major impact.

I'm starting to believe that Internet even working is a small miracle itself... I think it's the most complex thing humans have build...

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Quote from: greenlion on November 17, 2013, 04:16:13 AM

Quote from: beetcoin on November 15, 2013, 03:56:47 PM

well the problem is that if the internet went down, the price for BTC would completely crash as fewer people would believe in it or have access to it.

If the internet went down, the price of BTC would be the least of your worries.

yes. this would be dramatically for the economy of the world. but its not possible to kill the complete internet, but you can cut of single countries.

greenlion

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Quote from: beetcoin on November 15, 2013, 03:56:47 PM

well the problem is that if the internet went down, the price for BTC would completely crash as fewer people would believe in it or have access to it.

If the internet went down, the price of BTC would be the least of your worries.

just_me

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Jesus Christ Saves Sinners

I remember the days before the internet became more widespread, and at the time when the internet or dot com boom happened,

I was wondering how it could be, that they could unleash this internet thing, without many controls as it seems they had done.

So, perhaps they did have some controls? An internet kill switch?

Sure, I think it may be possible. Planned early on, with the help from all the big tech companies in the US,

in affiliation with the US Government or FBI or CIA ?

Sure, maybe they have that.

I think its possible.

cdtc

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Quote from: hieroglyph on November 16, 2013, 01:22:28 PM

^^^ I'm of the same opinion. The internet will tried to be tamed like bitcoin but it is just not going to happen.

Its already been tamed just that we are still unaware of it.

spartacus_

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The internet cannot be stopped any more.

Ekaros

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You can do severe damage to internet in right places with right resources.

Just mess up with routing and dns servers...

First one can stop large amount of inter network traffic and later one the regular use of internet.

It can stand a nuclear war, but only if there is someone keeping it running...

hieroglyph

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^^^ I'm of the same opinion. The internet will tried to be tamed like bitcoin but it is just not going to happen.

Rupture

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"Too big to fail"

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