Internet Required for retail purchases?

BTCforJoe

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Here's the thing. I can't imagine people that live in areas without internet would even have access to Bitcoin in the first place. And even if they did, I don't see them converting their fiat into Bitcoin just to be able to spend Bitcoin at merchants. But to answer your question, yes. An internet connection is required for any transaction involving Bitcoin. You'll need an active connection as the buyer in order to initiate the transaction from your wallet. And as the seller, you'll need an active connection in order to confirm the transaction. Technically, the Bitcoin will reach its intended recipient without the necessity for the recipient to be online, as long as they have provided a valid BTC address.

Quote from: shakerpartymaker on January 15, 2018, 09:42:05 AM

Absence of infrastructure, including Internet connection, is the main reason why cryptocurrencies will not replace fiat in nearest future. Transactions can be made without connection, but the wallet has to be connected after that anyway.

What's your point? No one is saying that cryptocurrency will replace fiat, so did you just come here to provide us with your fud?

Nilda

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Bitcoins will be another mode of payment for merchants. It will co-exist with paper and plastic. Not all places have internet and some don’t want to have internet. They want to stay OFF THE GRID.

ToyotaFortuner

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Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone. So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

from your phone and internet you can open or access bitcoin and make a purchase or sale of bitcoin, so bitcoin seems to be accessible where as it takes only the internet.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 01:10:42 PM

Plenty of persons care about that happens in the 3rd world.
How does Mercedes have anything to do with anything?? This thread is about bitcoin, not high-end luxury products.

They might be many but as long as they are poor as f word, nobody gives a damn.
If they barely have money to buy food, why would they need bitcoin with its fees?

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 01:07:26 PM

You are completely missing the point. There are a huge number of people today who have NEVER flown on an airplane. Google it to find some numbers. Plenty of people do not have credit cards (by choice). Plenty don't have mobile phones. In addition to the access issue, there is a question of cost. Is it worth it for someone to pay more to have an internet plan on their phone? Is it worth it JUST to be able to make bitcoin transactions?

How do you anticipate that this issue is going to be resolved? Are entire countries going to be blanketed by availability of free Wifi? Are vendors going to start purchasing internet so that they can offer to accept bitcoin? Is the price of internet on mobile phones going to become so low that it will not be an additional cost over a minutes/texting only plan?

No, you're actually missing the point.
With all the things I've mentioned, flying watching tv, smartphones, computers, internet, NONE of them was affordable for the poor in the beggining. None.
And even if you could afford a computer or a plane ticket nobody would install optic fiber or fly you to Somalia!!!

So, the issue does not need to be "resolved".
Bitcoin is not the communist party or a totalitarian regime that needs to enforce things on everybody.
If it's economically viable it will work, if not NO, the reality of a free economy which bitcoin stands for.

Quote from: Jating on January 15, 2018, 01:27:22 PM

Internet in the Philippines first became available on March 29, 1994, with the Philippine Network Foundation (PHNet) connecting the country and its people to Sprint in the United States via a 64 kbit/s link.[1][2][3] As of 2016, more than 44,000,000 people used the internet in the country, accounting for 43.5% of the total population.

Did you know that the Philippines is the "Texting capital of the World", everyone owns at least 2 smartphones here. Go use Google and see it for yourself.

And please get your facts straight.

Irrelevant. I just said that Philippinos are poor and that country is a 3rd world country.
Probably also illiterate since you can't understand a simple text.
So internet penetration is at 43.5%

Here is how it looks in a western country:
Share of Austria Population: 81.1 % (penetration)

So , nobody gives a damn about Phillipine. They can't even afford to pay a tx a week.
Philippines/GDP per capita 2,951.07 USD
Austria/GDP per capita 44,176.52 USD

peiReef7z

newbie

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paper money need central bank and central bank must be connected into internet.
less than 100 kb internet needed for using bitcoin

Diwrecktor29

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I guess this discussion has gone to "what my country can offer but your country cannot". Its true some of the countries in the world is still developing but we cannot blame them for that reason.

paul00

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In this matter I think part of merchants’ willingness to avail bitcoin as one of the mode of payments in a store is to provide a source of internet for its clients. Currently since not all people have their personal internet connection, these should come on package if we will be using bitcoin as our payment mode

Slow death

legendary

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Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet.

Really?

In my country is a country that is on the list of the poorest countries in the world and everyone who has smartphone has internet, in my house for example we all have computers, smartphones and we all can not live without internet... I'm trying to see which country is that there are people with smartphone without access to the internet, because the mobile phone operators offer internet access and the price is very low

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

as I said before, mobile phone operators offer internet access at very low prices, all people (at least in my country) that has smartphone has internet at very low prices.

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

Imagine a store without public wifi. ?

Eh? in my country only in the university they offer access to free Wi-Fi

Jating

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Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 10:58:04 AM

Quote from: penig on January 15, 2018, 10:47:08 AM

Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

One hundred years at the beginning of the last century ago nobody was able to purchase an airline ticket, watch a tv show, use a credit card, make a mobile phone conversation or use the internet.
That doubt of yours reminds me of people arguing a man can't fly.

Just because we have planes does everyone use them daily? No, they aren't always suitable and there are barriers to access (cost, distance to airport). There are limits to how far cryptocurrency can reach, its defined by limits of presence of internet infrastructure and reliable access. Might not be a concern to you but globally its an issue.

I don't know where you live but around here almost everybody can afford a low cost airplane ticket.
If it where for 3rd world countries like Philippine or Somalia then we would still not be able to have two pairs of shoes.

Credit cards are global, nobody gives about what happens in the 3rd world, if they even can afford a wallet to hold that cc card.
Same with bitcoin.
Nobody gives a damn about those that can't afford because economically they represent 0.
Mercedes is not targeting Somalia, nor does any other car maker.

Internet in the Philippines appears in the mid 90's, and almost 50% of the population has access to the Internet today.

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone. So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

Almost all of the countries are developing so I guess they can have access to the Internet in the future even Africa. The country that I can also see that has no chance of having a Internet access or heavily restricted are North Korea, to an extend Cuba, or any country under a authoritarian regime. So I guess there won't be a problem using bitcoin as mode of payment in a public store or restaurant in the long run.

ulhaq

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Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 10:58:04 AM

Credit cards are global, nobody gives about what happens in the 3rd world, if they even can afford a wallet to hold that cc card.
Nobody gives a damn about those that can't afford because economically they represent 0.
Mercedes is not targeting Somalia, nor does any other car maker.

Plenty of persons care about that happens in the 3rd world.
How does Mercedes have anything to do with anything?? This thread is about bitcoin, not high-end luxury products.

ulhaq

sr. member

Activity: 503

Merit: 286

Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 10:58:04 AM

Quote from: penig on January 15, 2018, 10:47:08 AM

Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

One hundred years at the beginning of the last century ago nobody was able to purchase an airline ticket, watch a tv show, use a credit card, make a mobile phone conversation or use the internet.
That doubt of yours reminds me of people arguing a man can't fly.

Just because we have planes does everyone use them daily? No, they aren't always suitable and there are barriers to access (cost, distance to airport). There are limits to how far cryptocurrency can reach, its defined by limits of presence of internet infrastructure and reliable access. Might not be a concern to you but globally its an issue.

I don't know where you live but around here almost everybody can afford a low cost airplane ticket.
If it where for 3rd world countries like Philippine or Somalia then we would still not be able to have two pairs of shoes.

Credit cards are global, nobody gives about what happens in the 3rd world, if they even can afford a wallet to hold that cc card.
Same with bitcoin.
Nobody gives a damn about those that can't afford because economically they represent 0.
Mercedes is not targeting Somalia, nor does any other car maker.

You are completely missing the point. There are a huge number of people today who have NEVER flown on an airplane. Google it to find some numbers. Plenty of people do not have credit cards (by choice). Plenty don't have mobile phones. In addition to the access issue, there is a question of cost. Is it worth it for someone to pay more to have an internet plan on their phone? Is it worth it JUST to be able to make bitcoin transactions?

How do you anticipate that this issue is going to be resolved? Are entire countries going to be blanketed by availability of free Wifi? Are vendors going to start purchasing internet so that they can offer to accept bitcoin? Is the price of internet on mobile phones going to become so low that it will not be an additional cost over a minutes/texting only plan?

olubams

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Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone. So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

At some point we wont need the internet to do some things that it seems our very existence relies on the internet. Today, you can open a bank account, transfer money, buy recharge card, make payments etc even with phones that are not internet enabled. But that does mean the internet is not important. It is but that is not the end of things advancement in technology is now directed to people who cannot afford to buy an internet enabled phone or a smart phone.

HabBear

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Yes, all transactions require the internet. For a transaction to be confirmed it needs to hit the blockchain. So this requirement isn't restricted to retail transactions, it applies to EVERY transaction.

It's absolutely a restriction for Bitcoin's survival and expansion. But there is much incentive to get the internet to those who don't have it already, and these efforts will in turn help Bitcoin's adoption.

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone. So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

btcprospecter

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No Internet is a holdback of bitcoin but majority that use it on a daily basis do. There are debit cards you can get for bitcoin that get around this problem tho.

lite

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Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

Who knows in future, there will be free/paid internet access across the globe! big companies are trying to do that, one such project is called "project loon".

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

....

There are already some devices/apps that let's retailer accept bitcoin payment via bluetooth/NFC. in coming days there also going to be bitcoin cards (like the normal ones) that can be loaded with bitcoins/altcoin and be used in any stores.(bitcoin fuze card?)

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-box-can-process-payments-web-connection/
https://themerkle.com/4-companies-providing-bitcoin-point-of-sale-terminal-payments-to-store-owners/

stompix

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Quote from: penig on January 15, 2018, 10:47:08 AM

Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

One hundred years at the beginning of the last century ago nobody was able to purchase an airline ticket, watch a tv show, use a credit card, make a mobile phone conversation or use the internet.
That doubt of yours reminds me of people arguing a man can't fly.

Just because we have planes does everyone use them daily? No, they aren't always suitable and there are barriers to access (cost, distance to airport). There are limits to how far cryptocurrency can reach, its defined by limits of presence of internet infrastructure and reliable access. Might not be a concern to you but globally its an issue.

I don't know where you live but around here almost everybody can afford a low cost airplane ticket.
If it where for 3rd world countries like Philippine or Somalia then we would still not be able to have two pairs of shoes.

Credit cards are global, nobody gives about what happens in the 3rd world, if they even can afford a wallet to hold that cc card.
Same with bitcoin.
Nobody gives a damn about those that can't afford because economically they represent 0.
Mercedes is not targeting Somalia, nor does any other car maker.

Diwrecktor29

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Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

There are still many parts of the world, including stores, taxis, but also people with smartphones, that do not have Internet. It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone. So how is bitcoin going to work for retail transactions? Imagine a store without public wifi. Can transactions be processed if only the vendor has Wifi?

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

FYI. Internet travels through a "phone line" or can be broadcasted through tower and cellsite. Though I agree the access of internet is a main reason why cryptocurrency cannot fully be adopted as terms of use. Its the option of the store with phone lines not to install a wifi.

penig

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Quote from: stompix on January 15, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

Quote from: ulhaq on January 15, 2018, 08:07:33 AM

It is doubtful that even in the long-term future everyone is going to have internet on their smartphone.

Credit cards can work on either a phone line or internet, so it would be ubiquitous as opposed to bitcoin which cannot work on a phone line?

One hundred years at the beginning of the last century ago nobody was able to purchase an airline ticket, watch a tv show, use a credit card, make a mobile phone conversation or use the internet.
That doubt of yours reminds me of people arguing a man can't fly.

Just because we have planes does everyone use them daily? No, they aren't always suitable and there are barriers to access (cost, distance to airport). There are limits to how far cryptocurrency can reach, its defined by limits of presence of internet infrastructure and reliable access. Might not be a concern to you but globally its an issue.

Englebabylove

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I've also thought about these issues, but I still think bitcoin will be one of the major currencies in the future, and some traditional currencies will not disappear, both will exist simultaneously.

xdrpx

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Coinapult has a service running that would allow anyone to make payments by sending an SMS. It would basically allow you to send Bitcoins to the merchants number through a simple SMS command and this should work without any Internet network and a simple feature phone. If you're wondering about the service check it here - https://coinapult.com/sms/info (Note: I'm not affiliated with the service in any way)

Also, there are a lot of Bitcoin debit cards that have a small annual payment to be made which could be used at POS systems liek any other debit or credit cards. Just load it up before spending and you're good to go. Also, if the vendor has enough funding but no reachable internet connectivity, then they can setup a Bitcoin satellite to connect to one of blockstream's satellite nodes to receive funds and to have a look at it in their wallet.

Topic: Internet Required for retail purchases? (Read 175 times)