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Topic: [Interview] Crypto business in Kazakhstan (Read 398 times)

sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 421
Blockchain Enthusiast, Chia farmer, NFT Collector
April 25, 2023, 05:24:27 AM
#24
Hi guys!

About XCH coins farming I can say that current price will never payback your investments.
1000 TB can farm approximately 10 coins per month, if you are owning big farm 5000 TB
you need some place for rent, good internet and electricity costs, for summer period you need A/C
So I can say that 50 coins farmed every month for the farm 5000 TB you will spend minimum 20-30%.
You can accumulate maximum only 40 coins per month.
This year you can farm 500 coins and then will be the reward halving.
Next three years you will be able to farm only 250 coins each year, I don't count total space changes, let's count it will stay on 22-23 EiB.
So for the next 4 years we can accumulate total 1250 XCH and then new halving and probably some of your drives will suffer after 4 years of hard work.
1250 XCH is only 55000$ and you will get payback only 30-40% of your investments.
That is why I'm saying that Chia farming payback period at this time (price, total space) is NEVER!

But if you want to earn money you can erase your farming plots and sell your space.
As I know this business can make x3 in 3 years, I mean 50k USD invested in Data Center can bring you 150K in just 3 years.
Although big Data Centers are continuing Chia farming, I can see a lot of farms 50 PiB+ only on Space Poll Leadership board and
I know that there are a lot of huge farms working solo not in the pools.
Are they idiots or they can't count money? Smiley
 
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
I have read Apytioh's posts.
Apytioh believes that it is necessary to invest in mining when the payback period is long and the equipment is cheap. When the payback period is short, the price is already approaching ATH.
Apytioh plans to make money on mining when the price of the coin rises and the payback period for equipment can decrease from 5 years to 5 months. CHIA price to rise from $40 to $400.
Anyone will probably ask why then not buy a coin for 40 dollars now?
Buying hardware mining is risk diversification. The project may close, but it will still have its mining hardware.
Yes, thank you,
So here's the point. When the payback period is long and the equipment is cheap the price of the coin can achieve ATH over such a long period. This first point is good.

As for the second point, "risk diversification", I have to ask: If the mining project stops or the coin mining becomes unprofitable, what can be gained from the mining hardware? I mean, if coin mining becomes unprofitable, would someone buy these devices?

Apytioh said:
"The farm consists of almost 600 hard drives. The main part is 10TB drives, there is also a small amount of 8TB, and the total capacity is over 5500TB."
I will write only my opinion, I will ask Apytioh this question, and I will write a translation.
600 hard drives is a commodity that has a price. I think that losses are inevitable if the project fails, but if you buy coins, then you can lose all investments, and if you buy hard drives, then you will lose only part of the money, or maybe use them in another project.

legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1982
Fully Regulated Crypto Casino
I have read Apytioh's posts.
Apytioh believes that it is necessary to invest in mining when the payback period is long and the equipment is cheap. When the payback period is short, the price is already approaching ATH.
Apytioh plans to make money on mining when the price of the coin rises and the payback period for equipment can decrease from 5 years to 5 months. CHIA price to rise from $40 to $400.
Anyone will probably ask why then not buy a coin for 40 dollars now?
Buying hardware mining is risk diversification. The project may close, but it will still have its mining hardware.
Yes, thank you,
So here's the point. When the payback period is long and the equipment is cheap the price of the coin can achieve ATH over such a long period. This first point is good.

As for the second point, "risk diversification", I have to ask: If the mining project stops or the coin mining becomes unprofitable, what can be gained from the mining hardware? I mean, if coin mining becomes unprofitable, would someone buy these devices?
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
Do you want to continue the interview about Crypto business in Kazakhstan? Apytioh is active on the forum and I may invite him for a third interview.
If you have any questions you would like answered, you can write here or DM me. Apytioh is a very open person and honestly answers all questions.
Such an interview requires a lot of time for me and the opponent, but I don’t see much interest in such content.
I regret that your important topic did not receive the required attention, despite all the efforts and the long time you invested in it.
Honestly this is the first time I see the topic, so I read the first interviews that I did with Apytioh, the interview is really interesting and I learned a lot of new things for me especially about mining in Kazakhstan.
Apytioh mentioned something in the second interview that I didn't fully understand the point:
Quote
But according to my observations, I will say the following, when the current payback period is less than 6 months, it means that these periods are more likely to increase soon, you run the risk of entering the market when demand starts to fall. And when the current payback period is more than 1.5 years, then most likely, after a short time, everything will change in your favor.
Warren Buffett's rule of thumb: "Be afraid when everyone is greedy, and be greedy when everyone is afraid."
Thus, I have developed for myself the following pattern, the more unprofitable the start of mining in terms of payback period, the better this entry point, and vice versa. "

Could you ask him to explain this point in more detail, because I haven't quite touched the point. Specifically the last sentence.

Thank you and much appreciation for your kind efforts.
I have read Apytioh's posts.
Apytioh believes that it is necessary to invest in mining when the payback period is long and the equipment is cheap. When the payback period is short, the price is already approaching ATH.
Apytioh plans to make money on mining when the price of the coin rises and the payback period for equipment can decrease from 5 years to 5 months. CHIA price to rise from $40 to $400.
Anyone will probably ask why then not buy a coin for 40 dollars now?
Buying hardware mining is risk diversification. The project may close, but it will still have its mining hardware.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1982
Fully Regulated Crypto Casino
Do you want to continue the interview about Crypto business in Kazakhstan? Apytioh is active on the forum and I may invite him for a third interview.
If you have any questions you would like answered, you can write here or DM me. Apytioh is a very open person and honestly answers all questions.
Such an interview requires a lot of time for me and the opponent, but I don’t see much interest in such content.
I regret that your important topic did not receive the required attention, despite all the efforts and the long time you invested in it.
Honestly this is the first time I see the topic, so I read the first interviews that I did with Apytioh, the interview is really interesting and I learned a lot of new things for me especially about mining in Kazakhstan.
Apytioh mentioned something in the second interview that I didn't fully understand the point:
Quote
But according to my observations, I will say the following, when the current payback period is less than 6 months, it means that these periods are more likely to increase soon, you run the risk of entering the market when demand starts to fall. And when the current payback period is more than 1.5 years, then most likely, after a short time, everything will change in your favor.
Warren Buffett's rule of thumb: "Be afraid when everyone is greedy, and be greedy when everyone is afraid."
Thus, I have developed for myself the following pattern, the more unprofitable the start of mining in terms of payback period, the better this entry point, and vice versa. "

Could you ask him to explain this point in more detail, because I haven't quite touched the point. Specifically the last sentence.

Thank you and much appreciation for your kind efforts.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
Do you want to continue the interview about Crypto business in Kazakhstan? Apytioh is active on the forum and I may invite him for a third interview.
If you have any questions you would like answered, you can write here or DM me. Apytioh is a very open person and honestly answers all questions.
Such an interview requires a lot of time for me and the opponent, but I don’t see much interest in such content.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
Continued interview with Apytioh about the current situation in Kazakhstan. July 2022.

Enjoy reading!

Please tell us about the situation with mining in Kazakhstan, what has changed since our last interview in July 2021?

"Everything has changed dramatically. If earlier everyone globally fled to Kazakhstan a year ago, now many have already fled the country. According to my subjective feelings, we have lost at least half of our hashrate. But the current price, which is not favorable to anyone, is also to blame."

What taxes do miners have to pay? What is the cost of electricity? Are there connection difficulties?

"There are difficulties. There is still no final, understandable law and procedure for mining. Hence a lot of ensuing problems, difficulties in obtaining permission for mining, cunning employees of special services who are trying to cash in on miners by any method known to them, owners of areas that have become impudent in the region for mining, which not only raise the price of electricity by 1-2 cents per kW, but also manage to demand a share of the profit in the amount of 20-30%.In fact, now those who can officially beckon are required to pay a little more than 2 cents extra for each kWh consumed in taxes, and the average price is now 5-6 cents Add here 2 cents for tax, in the summer a lot is consumed for cooling, salaries for employees, equipment repairs and downtime, and if you still share the profit with the owner of the site, then you don't pay off in the coming years. We can say that with our approach we killed the happiness that fell on us in the form of visiting miners from all over the world."

What changes have occurred in the work of crypto exchangers? Has the shadow segment remained on the crypto market or is it dangerous now?

"The shadow segment, in my opinion, will never disappear in this direction. Where is money found, and especially big money
it will always be there. But in general, this direction is developing, there are a lot of exchangers, crypto arbitrage has grown a lot and people have learned to use international payment systems and banks in this business. A lot of people are now working from Russia in our market. Now, with the strengthening of the ruble, they have become smaller, but in the spring there was a real boom. Every day, 3-4 new people asked me to sell them a crypt. "

10 months ago you invested in a large mining farm CHIA. Do not regret about it?

“In theory, I should have lost faith in her and regretted it. After all, I entered this project at a Chia price of $ 200, now it is trading at $ 40. At the same time, my partner let me down, who refused the project, and I had to work alone. This applies to both the technical and financial part. And the costs, as it usually happens, turned out to be much more than I originally expected. But no, I don’t regret it, now I’m even glad that I did it and I have something to be proud of looking at this mining farm. I I am sure that the price of Chia will change so that everything will pay off and my labors will be rewarded."

To make it clear for beginners, tell me how many hard drives do you have and what size is it?

"The farm consists of almost 600 hard drives. The main part is 10TB drives, there is also a small amount of 8TB, and the total capacity is over 5500TB."

What is your hashrate, power consumption? What coins are you mining at the same time?

"My farm is now 4.9PiB, which is 5.5 petabytes or 0.022% of the entire network, this is in fact a small fraction, there are much larger farms, but these are most likely some kind of huge data centers. But in mining chats I don’t met farms more than mine, most farms are 200-500 terabytes.
Electricity consumption is now about 9000 kWh per month, or about 12.5 kWh. But 30-40% of this is consumed by air conditioning and other auxiliary devices, cameras, control computers, lights, etc.
In the cool season, when there is no need for an air conditioner and there is no plotting, but just farming, the consumption does not exceed 8-9 kWh. If I had bought top ASICs at that time for the same amount, then the electricity consumption would have been 25-30 times higher. Accordingly, in the summer, I would pay for electricity not 400 dollars a month, but more than 10,000."

How many CHIA coins does your farm mine per day? Do you sell coins to pay expenses?

"When we all started all the hard drives, the Chia calculator promised us 2 coins every day. In fact, due to the fact that we were mining in solo mode, then
I managed to get more coins. But then difficulties began, constant updates, errors, and we began to lose performance, while the complexity of mining fell, and our profit also fell. It is still not clear what this is connected with and I have not found any clear answer. Maybe that's how random works. But if approximately, then we have been extracting 50 coins in recent months. At the current exchange rate, this is $2,000, and this is not enough to even cover expenses. Rent, electricity, internet and wages are more than the profit of a mining farm. Therefore, the coins are not for sale, all expenses for 11 months I pay from my own funds. At the same time, I try to buy more Chia from the market with large price drawdowns. I plan to sell these speculatively bought coins at a price of 300-400 dollars per Chia and recover some of my expenses, and I plan to sell the farmed coins after the halving or after overcoming the price of 1000 dollars."

What difficulties have you encountered during this time on your mining farm?

"There were a lot of difficulties. I can talk about this topic for several hours. I will say briefly, mining on asics and video cards is much easier. Chia farming is the most difficult technical process that I had to understand. Of course, I am not a system administrator, I'm not an IT specialist and I don't have a lot of experience, but the process of launching plotting, maintaining farming is a very specific and time-consuming process, especially if your farm is industrial scale, and not 5-10 hard drives in an apartment on the balcony."

Do you have your own hard drive plotting equipment or do you use other paid services?

"Own equipment. The previous owners bought at the Chia HYIP in the spring of 21 in China, then I used it in Kazakhstan. In February of this year, when events began in Ukraine and the price of the ruble fell sharply, I assembled 3 more good and productive plotters, that work without an SSD, they use 512GB of their RAM.
This allowed me to finish the process faster, as we placed three old servers in cabinets and these servers were running disk shelves that were filled with ready-made hard drives. And the remaining servers crashed from a heavy load, all the servers got warm controllers and the servers turned off, somewhere plotting time increased by 2-3 times.
But now, when the difficulties are over, I sell servers in the Russian Federation, the ruble has grown. I plan to spend part of the money on buying Chia, and spend the other part on monthly expenses."

When building your mining farm, did you use ready-made solutions or did you make racks, ventilation, security systems yourself?

"There were no ready-made solutions, there were two of my system administrators with whom we consulted and did everything ourselves. It was not easy, but very interesting."

What mistakes did you make when building a mining farm or what would you have done differently 10 months ago?

"The only thing I would change is the location. In vain, I took the advice of my partner, who refused to participate in the project, and I rented a huge room with a rent of almost $ 1,000 a month. It would be more correct to build my own container and do everything there. By the way, I am currently engaged in its construction. Now my farm will become mobile, and its location will be known to a very narrow circle of people."

What advice would you give to new CHIA miners?

"In no case do not start it now. Better buy coins on the market and hold them until the halving. And if you really want to farm Chia, then with the proceeds from the sale of Chia coins you can buy yourself equipment and start farming, just wait new bottom of Chia after halving. I hope that by then it will be much easier to plot and farm than it is now."


Mining farm. Video.


Thanks Apytioh for your time.
I hope you enjoy reading this interview!
Feel free to ask Apytioh questions.

Disclaimer: This article is educational. Do not consider this material as investment advice!


Original:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5313734

If you find translation errors, please contact me.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 513
August 07, 2021, 08:43:46 PM
#17
These are the type of people that the bitcoin community sorely needs.

People, in genuinely disadvantaged economies, who are using bitcoin to try and create good for themselves and for the society around them. This was the initial goal of bitcoin - to help the unbanked, to provide a store of value, and means of exchange for those who don't have the luxury of accessing it through their traditional banking system.

Best of luck to this young man and his future endeavours. By the looks of it, he has a good business mind, is a decent person, and will continue to succeed in the future as a matter of time.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
August 07, 2021, 03:17:36 PM
#16
I don’t know how it happens in other countries, but in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other similar countries, this is standard practice.

It could be a fee to cover infrastructural costs, or a bribe to get to use the services of the plant. Anecdotally, I heard of foundries in India having to pay six-figure sums in bribes just to get connected to the grid.
I do not know what is happening in India, but in Russia or other countries about which I wrote this is called a bribe.
If you try to do everything in a legal way, then it is very difficult to obtain permission and the registration procedure can take years. And after the bribe, you get permission in a very short time.
I hate it myself. In some places, you officially pay the affiliated company for consulting services and get permission.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
August 06, 2021, 05:54:07 PM
#15
I don’t know how it happens in other countries, but in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other similar countries, this is standard practice.

It could be a fee to cover infrastructural costs, or a bribe to get to use the services of the plant. Anecdotally, I heard of foundries in India having to pay six-figure sums in bribes just to get connected to the grid.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
August 02, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
#14
I agree with you, but there are a lot of nuances here.
Now coal is very expensive, but this does not mean that its price will not decrease in the future.
If the mill has a lot of coal, then its government will be interested in investors building new thermal power plants in Kazakhstan.
As I understand it, Kazakhstan has a large surplus of electricity. And when the electricity consumption equals the supply, I will ask the people of their Kazakhstan what they will do.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
August 02, 2021, 03:46:01 AM
#13
But even I pay less for electricity, although in my region electricity is produced at thermal power plants.
I looked at the prices for coal in Russia excluding delivery. 5000-7000 rubles (70-96 dollars) per ton.

Yeah, I should have pointed the difference way better, so, what I was trying to say:

It makes sense for some powerplants to sell energy at 2-3 cents, even in Montana where Marathon is mining they offer it at 2.3 kwh, but that's an isolated environment. Just like some shale oil explorations have to sell it at -10 -20 market price so are some coal mines going to keep selling coal at 30-40$/ton just because they lack the means of exporting it or even increasing capacity above their contracts. A lot of coal mines have a powerplant nearby and that's all, they were kept like this just to run the powerplant with no real export in mind., or are in the middle of nowhere with no railway lines or a nearby port.
For those who will keep selling coal cheap as that's their only client, it's like they are missing an opportunity, not like they are going bankrupt, they were designed to explore at 10-20$ per ton, they will continue doing so.

But, if we take the whole of Kazakhstan, that's a different thing, it's not a single case it's a whole system.
A country runs in a continuous balance, they produce some energy from coal, they export some and they import some.
Right now, if Kazakhstan would need 4GW of extra power they would have only 3 obvious choices:
- expand mining capacity to produce more coal, that's done in years not months
- reduce exports (why, when you can sell that at 100$?)
- import...again, why?

So yeah, right now you can still get energy at 2 cents from coal, but you will not get extra!! energy at the same price, not when we're talking hundreds of MW, not KW.

As for your link look at anthracite, that's what Australia is mainly exporting, the rest is low quality, what you see at 6000 rubles/ton.
Anthracite - 7200 - 7600 kcal / kg
DPK - 5400 - 5600 kcal / kg
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
August 01, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
#12
Coal prices

https://www.finanz.ru/birzhevyye-tovary/grafik/ugol-cena

Perhaps we do not know something, but if you use your data, then the price for 1 kilowatt should be more than 4 cents.
But even I pay less for electricity, although in my region electricity is produced at thermal power plants.
I looked at the prices for coal in Russia excluding delivery. 5000-7000 rubles (70-96 dollars) per ton.
This is the price for a small wholesale of several tons, wholesale prices are even cheaper.
https://www.tg-stroy.ru/ugol.html
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
I read an interesting analytics that the cost of electricity at CHP plants, which were built in the Soviet Union, is less than 1 cent per kilowatt.

That could be possible, but not at current prices.

Roughly, taking into account standard plants and medium quality coal you can generate around 2500kwh from one ton of coal.
But, when right now Chinese prices have reached almost 900 yuan briefly but still stay in the zone above 120, you have to choices:
- sell the coal for 100$ plus shipping
- burn the coal, produce 2500kwh and sell that for 100, which means 4cents/kwh at 1cent/kwh you get only 25$.

It would have worked for when the prices were 40$ and you had to transport that so it was cheaper just to let the powerplants run, but at current prices, it makes no sense unless you subsidize the industry to keep the jobs market afloat.

And no, Kazakhstan will not burn coal and money to keep prices low for miners, not without serious bribes.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
I read an interesting analytics that the cost of electricity at CHP plants, which were built in the Soviet Union, is less than 1 cent per kilowatt. Even in the Soviet Union, the leaders understood that it was necessary to look for other sources of electricity, so improvements to the CHP plant stopped. Modern CHP plants have higher efficiency, they are being built in China.
In Kazakhstan, the same CHP plants are used as now in Russia.
But there is a lot of coal in Russia and Kazakhstan Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
In addition to that, I was surprised to read about digital currencies being banned in a country with a lot of ongoing mining operations!

It's rather the norm, if we cut the US out of the picture most mining was done in countries that are somewhat hostile to the idea of the usage of Bitcoin, China, Iran, Kazakhstan, and Russia. The last addition in top Malaysia just made the headlines in some steamroller fashion  Cheesy. I know it was about stealing electricity but still....
As for Kazakstan, I wonder how much this love affair with bitcoin mining will last, oil prices are $20 up from the start of the year while coal has jumped 80%, so it makes less and less sense to burn in to generate cheap energy for an industry if it doesn't give back some serious returns.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2021/07/kazakhstan-bank-account-cryptocurrencies
Kazakhstan Opens Up Bank Accounts For Cryptocurrencies
Overall, this is a positive development but I still don't like how they would still be able to control everything.

In addition to that, I was surprised to read about digital currencies were banned in a country with a lot of ongoing mining operations!

legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2021/07/kazakhstan-bank-account-cryptocurrencies
Kazakhstan Opens Up Bank Accounts For Cryptocurrencies
"New Crypto Doors Open For Kazakhstan’s Citizens
According to the Kazakh Association of Blockchain and Data Center Industry, local banks are on their way to become more crypto-friendly. As the Astana International Financial Center (AIFC) starts collaborating and launches its pilot project with second-tier banks, clients will have the opportunity to officially and openly work in cryptocurrency. "
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 4602
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-idUSKBN2A308U
China's new coal power plant capacity in 2020 more than three times rest of world's: study

"Including decommissions, China’s coal-fired fleet capacity rose by a net 29.8 GW in 2020, even as the rest of the world made cuts of 17.2 GW, according to research released on Wednesday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), a U.S. think tank, and the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA)."

In China, the production of energy from coal is growing, according to this report.
Most likely, China has completely different reasons, but definitely not those about which it is written here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57372694
hero member
Activity: 2338
Merit: 953
Temporary forum vacation
Interesting read thank you for sharing that! If I am not mistaken in Kazakhstan they have allowed for crypto businesses to operate legally and even gave them a bit of tax breaks for first few years especially in the big mountain areas surrounding the new capital. Their current president is really keen to open up to the world so this China thing is good news for him. Plus the big China to Russia route runs through Kazakhstan so they are ready for business it seems.
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