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Topic: Investing in a crypto currency casino (Just-Dice) - page 2. (Read 482 times)

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1011
They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

Actually investing in CLAM would had been extremely profitable (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/). Add to that staking and investing profits from being part of Just Dice bankroll and it gets even better. But I don't care about past but future returns, it's not reasonable to expect 50% annual returns from buying any crypto currency and holding it. It may happen but it's not sustainable.

Why do you think only CLAM can be extremely profitable and other altcoins are not that profitable?

Not only CLAM there are many coins has given superb profits in last few months. Just look at these coins like IOTA, VERGE, BURST, NEO and many other coins. I have made more than 50% profit from altcoin investments in last one year.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
IMHO investing in casino is much more profitable for long term goal than investing in cryptocurrency trading. A sure 1% house edge daily profit makes you a 30% monthly profit and that is more gain than any altcoins cryptocurrency trading.For a sure win better invest them both.

It's not 1% daily, that kind of returns just don't exist. It's 1% of the wagered amount. Actually 0.9% because the casino charges a 10% fee.

In this case, casino profits are relatively low, what really boosts returns is that more than twice as many coins that should be staked are staked, an inflation rate is still quite high (the higher, the better, when you are staking more than you "should").
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
i agree with Chris, why not invest in both? altcoins (the most promising ones) and some on casino.
Neither alt or casino can assure you profit but diversification would be the way to go depending on the amount of money you want to put in.
Like somebody said, trading is a zero-sum game but worse due to transfaction fees and if you set your "goal" as one year window nothing can assure you gains.

I'm not putting all my money on Just Dice, that would be stupid. I'm already diversifying among many things. I'm just thinking about adding Just Dice to that list, and wanted to know if you guys could find any flaw in my reasoning. Even the super conservative estimate of market cap staying constant would mean a very high expected return.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

Actually investing in CLAM would had been extremely profitable (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/). Add to that staking and investing profits from being part of Just Dice bankroll and it gets even better. But I don't care about past but future returns, it's not reasonable to expect 50% annual returns from buying any crypto currency and holding it. It may happen but it's not sustainable.
full member
Activity: 948
Merit: 105
I have no investment experience with that particular dice site but expecting 26%+ annual would be high as you too need to consider the large wins.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1804
guess who's back
just dice is one of the best gambling investments ever , but the catch is that you have to be a good trader too
clam price fluctuates a lot , two months ago it was over 0.002 BTC and now it's barely 0.0006 so you gotta know when to get in ( but that applies to every other alt like buying DOGE at over 100 sats for example )

at the moment the price is really good IMO since it can't got much down , so at this time yeah investing in Just Dice is really good IMO
so with such price and 0.1-0.15% daily , yeah I guess Just dice is one of the most profitable casinos to invest in
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 256
IMHO investing in casino is much more profitable for long term goal than investing in cryptocurrency trading. A sure 1% house edge daily profit makes you a 30% monthly profit and that is more gain than any altcoins cryptocurrency trading.For a sure win better invest them both.
jr. member
Activity: 85
Merit: 1
This isn't a bad way to invest your money, but just as the terms stated, risks are still involved even for investors.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 101
i agree with Chris, why not invest in both? altcoins (the most promising ones) and some on casino.
Neither alt or casino can assure you profit but diversification would be the way to go depending on the amount of money you want to put in.
Like somebody said, trading is a zero-sum game but worse due to transfaction fees and if you set your "goal" as one year window nothing can assure you gains.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1011
They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.

Are you talking of investing in gambling site? Though its true it is much stable and safer to invest on casinos and other gambling sites. I think it is not profitable as trading could be, although trading is a high risk game.

Trading could be... That's the point. Just like gambling could be more profitable (short term, in the long run you unavoidably lose). However, I don't believe much people, if any, do really have a trading strategy that gives them more than 50% annual returns per year. If my estimates are correct you can get that kind of returns by simply investing on Just Dice, without doing anything. The only risk would be Dooglus stealing the bankroll (extremely unlikely, he had the chance to steal way more money when the casino was accepting BTC). Short term you could suffer losses, but there are not that many big bets, most of the wagered amount is done in small bets.
full member
Activity: 518
Merit: 106
WWW.BLOCKCHAIN021.COM
More and more ppl are now getting its attention into gambling probably the profit that could be make or any other particular reason but for me gambling need to be consistent and only lose what you could afford don't bet the amount that out of the blue.
newbie
Activity: 72
Merit: 0
But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.

Are you talking of investing in gambling site? Though its true it is much stable and safer to invest on casinos and other gambling sites. I think it is not profitable as trading could be, although trading is a high risk game.
full member
Activity: 229
Merit: 100
Money making legitimately
But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).
newbie
Activity: 72
Merit: 0
They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
I’m considering investing in an online crypto currency casino. While I’m quite sure it’s a good idea, I’d like to know if anyone can find any flaw in my reasoning.

By investing, your deposit is added to the casino bankroll, so that players gamble against it. You get a share of the site profits proportional to how much of the bankroll you own. So if the bankroll is 99 and you invest 1, the total becomes 100 and you earn 1% of the casino profits (your share changes as other people invest or divest).

The casino I’m thinking about is Just Dice, which is the oldest casino of this kind. It originally worked with Bitcoins, but now it uses another currency, called CLAM. The owner, Dooglus on Bitcointalk forums and Reddit, has been a very active and trustworthy user for years. The casino had a bankroll of about 50000 BTC for months and there was never any solvency issue (https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86×pan=all). I don’t see him running away with the money.

While using a small currency may seem negative, in this case it actually boosts expected returns drastically. That’s because CLAM is a proof of stake currency, and while Just Dice’s bankroll is only about 40% of the total CLAM supply, it stakes about 85% of the coins (so more than double than it “should”). This is more beneficial the highest the inflation rate is, and CLAM’s inflation rate is still quite high nowadays (1 block is mined per minute and the reward is 1 CLAM, so 1440 coins a day are created, or 525600 a year, while 2.78 million coins exist).

Just Dice’s edge is 1%, and it charges a 10% fee to investors. I have made an spreadsheet with the expected annual returns (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13REkpErWxlXs2T5kNHKZlHsNvyuGAxezfB_iaUrskQ4/edit?usp=sharing), considering both that the market cap in USD stays constant (which is extremely conservative as I’ll explain later) and coin price stays constant (which is more reasonable). In the first case you should expect an annual return of 26.71% in USD, 53.14% if CLAM’s price doesn’t change. These returns are already quite impressive, but you should expect even higher ones if BTC keeps rising, as it affects CLAM’s price favourably.

Historically investing in Just Dice’s has been extremely profitable, much more than those expected returns. $1 invested on 3/7/2015 would be more than $26.54 on 11/27/2017 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.26095416). That’s a compound annual return of 232%.

These are some scenarios you can expect while you buy and hold Just Dice:

1. Other investors withdraw and sell all the CLAM they earn (staking plus casino profits), which are gambled afterwards. Your share of JD’s bankroll keeps increasing, so you both stake more and get more from player's losses. Market cap value doesn’t change (it slightly increases as long as you hold).

2. Other investors just hold too. CLAM are being hoarded and therefore they become more valuable. People wanting to gamble $X now have to buy less CLAM. Less CLAM are wagered, but your CLAM increase in value.

3. Other investors withdraw their coins and they are staked somewhere else. The effect of this is a bit better than if others investors just hold like you, as you keep getting a bigger share of the coins won from players.

4. Other investors withdraw their coins and then they are not being staked (they are hold by traders at exchanges, for example). This scenario is even better as your share of the staked coins also rises.

5. CLAM start being accepted in more places, and therefore their demand increases.

6. BTC rises. CLAM partially rises too, because of BTC owners being able to gamble more USD and because of some people wanting to diversify among different crypto currencies.

7. BTC drops. CLAM partially drops, but the amount of wagered CLAM per day increases as more need to be used to gamble the same amount of USD.

So basically, it's reasonable to expect the market cap to keep rising, instead of staying constant.
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