Investing in btc casinos - page 38. | Bitcointalksearch.org

neochiny

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Quote from: tee-rex on November 18, 2016, 11:38:25 AM

This whole point of using altcoins as a possible collateral seems to be strained at best and far-fetched at worst with forced arguments at that. It is not enough that you as a borrower might think that the altcoin in question would grow in price, you should also convince the lender in that. If you somehow succeed, the lender would be willingly and wittingly selling you bitcoins for that altcoin and then buying them back at a loss. Why would he want that?

What? No, not selling. That is collateral. Which is usually held in escrow.

The borrower shows proofs to the lender that he has the altcoins
The lender checks the current value of said coins
They agree on terms
The control of the coins is transferred to the escrow and
The loaned amount is released to the borrower
When the loan is paid by the borrower, the escrow releases the altcoin back to the borrower.

If however, the loan is not repaid, then the escrow releases the altcoins to the lender.

@OP sorry if we are getting off-topic.
Now, my suggestion for casino bankrolls. I would go for casino sites that do not have too big of a bankroll yet.
Going for moderate bankrolls could possibly give one bigger chunks of the profits as there would be fewer investors to divide it among. (Especially when compared to sites with huge bankrolls and thousands of investors.)

tee-rex

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Quote from: neochiny on November 18, 2016, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: tee-rex on November 18, 2016, 10:03:05 AM

This simply doesn't make sense. You would sell your Litecoins much faster than it would take to negotiate the terms of a loan, without the overhead that the lender would demand as a safety margin. And you wouldn't have to pay the interest on the borrowed funds at that. If you ask me, I don't see any rational reason why would a borrower use a liquid altcoin like Litecoin as a collateral. If only to raise his trust level and strengthen his credit history.

I don't really think it's about credit history. Here's some possible reason some could view it as:

Quote from: DiamondCardz on April 20, 2014, 09:40:54 AM

A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned.

This whole point of using altcoins as a possible collateral seems to be strained at best and far-fetched at worst with forced arguments at that. It is not enough that you as a borrower might think that the altcoin in question would grow in price, you should also convince the lender in that. If you somehow succeed, the lender would be willingly and wittingly selling you bitcoins for that altcoin and then buying them back at a loss. Why would he want that?

neochiny

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Quote from: tee-rex on November 18, 2016, 10:03:05 AM

This simply doesn't make sense. You would sell your Litecoins much faster than it would take to negotiate the terms of a loan, without the overhead that the lender would demand as a safety margin. And you wouldn't have to pay the interest on the borrowed funds at that. If you ask me, I don't see any rational reason why would a borrower use a liquid altcoin like Litecoin as a collateral. If only to raise his trust level and strengthen his credit history.

I don't really think it's about credit history. Here's some possible reason some could view it as:

Quote from: DiamondCardz on April 20, 2014, 09:40:54 AM

A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned.

Though there might only be a few who actually uses altcoins for collateral. Most I see are forum accounts, which is really risky for lenders.

Which is why I think loans aren't really much of an avenue for investments.

tee-rex

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Quote from: neochiny on November 18, 2016, 09:42:11 AM

Altcoins are accepted. It would depend on the lender which ones he would accept.

This is used when a user has immediate need for money but doesn't want to sell the altcoins he has. He asks for a loan, gives his altcoins as collateral. Pays it back, and then he gets his altcoins in return.

Quote from: Vod on April 20, 2014, 01:03:16 PM

What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

- The best collateral is another crypto-currency, such as Litecoin (also written as LTC). Coins must be moderately traded on multiple exchanges.
- Some digital wares such as domain names can be considered as long as the user cannot recover it.
- Small valuable items that can be shipped though the mail - i.e. gold, silver, iphones, etc.
- Large items, such as a motorcycle or guitar can be used if you live close to the person giving you the loan. Try localbitcoins.com

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/edu-the-rule-of-no-collateral-no-loan-ignore-at-your-own-risk-577765

This simply doesn't make sense. You would sell your Litecoins much faster than it would take to negotiate the terms of a loan, without the overhead that the lender would demand as a safety margin. And you wouldn't have to pay the interest on the borrowed funds at that. If you ask me, I don't see any rational reason why would a borrower use a liquid altcoin like Litecoin as a collateral. If only to raise his trust level and strengthen his credit history.

neochiny

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Quote from: Erza on November 18, 2016, 09:02:41 AM

Quote from: neochiny on November 18, 2016, 06:51:02 AM

And now even previously acceptable collaterals like forum accounts are way too risky.
I've seen that some lenders who accepted accounts as collateral, got those accounts tagged
with neg trust. So they probably ended up not being able to sell/selling the neg trust account for way lower than the amount they originally loaned.

I guess this means only altcoins are possible collaterals now?

Which is why, I personally only look into casino bankrolls as investments.
It's too much trouble dealing with people when lending.

if the loaner gets neg trust account that means the loaner is too stupid, why they dont even checked the account first before start dealing? Btw this is the first time that i have heard about altcoin being colateralls, how can this possible? Not all people dare to take this, more over if the altcoin is new coin, how can they even trade this?

No. It's not like that. The lender does not accept accounts with neg trust(that would be worthless), the account GETS tagged, when the user who asked for a loan defaults/doesn't pay and the lender tries to sell it.

Why? Because the lender will have to sell the account that was given as collateral so he could get back the money he loaned out(which wasn't paid back).

But then, account selling is frowned upon because it enables scams.
Which is why it gets tagged. Sometimes it's just a neutral, saying it's a bought account, but other times it gets neg trust. It depends on the DT member.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/withdrawn-1682304

Altcoins are accepted. It would depend on the lender which ones he would accept.

This is used when a user has immediate need for money but doesn't want to sell the altcoins he has. He asks for a loan, gives his altcoins as collateral. Pays it back, and then he gets his altcoins in return.

Quote from: Vod on April 20, 2014, 01:03:16 PM

What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

- The best collateral is another crypto-currency, such as Litecoin (also written as LTC). Coins must be moderately traded on multiple exchanges.
- Some digital wares such as domain names can be considered as long as the user cannot recover it.
- Small valuable items that can be shipped though the mail - i.e. gold, silver, iphones, etc.
- Large items, such as a motorcycle or guitar can be used if you live close to the person giving you the loan. Try localbitcoins.com

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/edu-the-rule-of-no-collateral-no-loan-ignore-at-your-own-risk-577765

tee-rex

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Quote from: Erza on November 18, 2016, 09:02:41 AM

if the loaner gets neg trust account that means the loaner is too stupid, why they dont even checked the account first before start dealing? Btw this is the first time that i have heard about altcoin being colateralls, how can this possible? Not all people dare to take this, more over if the altcoin is new coin, how can they even trade this?

Most likely, loaners that accept altcoins are the same ones who accept accounts with negative trust as collateral. It may also turn out that altcoins as collateral is nothing more than a forced invention of someone with a stash of scam coins who wanted to take a loan but didn't have an account with positive or neutral trust to use as a real collateral.

Erza

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Quote from: neochiny on November 18, 2016, 06:51:02 AM

Quote from: fullypak on November 17, 2016, 09:32:09 PM

Quote from: LuanX3 on November 17, 2016, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: MinerHQ on November 17, 2016, 08:43:51 PM

Why do you want to lend money without holding any collateral? That will be the biggest mistake if you give money without holding collateral. I always lend only with the collaterals which I can sell off easily in case borrower don't pay back my money. If you manage it properly this business gives a good profit.

True, you cannot lend money to untrusted people. Most of the time they will run. You have to get collateral more than what you loaned them. So they have a reason to come back and pay for the loan.

But most of the sites which facilitate P2P lending money will not allow holding collateral to a lender, and that's why so many scams are happening in those places like BTCJam. One can try lending on this forum by taking a collateral and didn't find any other place to lend by holding collateral.

And now even previously acceptable collaterals like forum accounts are way too risky.
I've seen that some lenders who accepted accounts as collateral, got those accounts tagged
with neg trust. So they probably ended up not being able to sell/selling the neg trust account for way lower than the amount they originally loaned.

I guess this means only altcoins are possible collaterals now?

Which is why, I personally only look into casino bankrolls as investments.
It's too much trouble dealing with people when lending.

if the loaner gets neg trust account that means the loaner is too stupid, why they dont even checked the account first before start dealing? Btw this is the first time that i have heard about altcoin being colateralls, how can this possible? Not all people dare to take this, more over if the altcoin is new coin, how can they even trade this?

neochiny

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Quote from: fullypak on November 17, 2016, 09:32:09 PM

Quote from: LuanX3 on November 17, 2016, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: MinerHQ on November 17, 2016, 08:43:51 PM

Why do you want to lend money without holding any collateral? That will be the biggest mistake if you give money without holding collateral. I always lend only with the collaterals which I can sell off easily in case borrower don't pay back my money. If you manage it properly this business gives a good profit.

True, you cannot lend money to untrusted people. Most of the time they will run. You have to get collateral more than what you loaned them. So they have a reason to come back and pay for the loan.

But most of the sites which facilitate P2P lending money will not allow holding collateral to a lender, and that's why so many scams are happening in those places like BTCJam. One can try lending on this forum by taking a collateral and didn't find any other place to lend by holding collateral.

And now even previously acceptable collaterals like forum accounts are way too risky.
I've seen that some lenders who accepted accounts as collateral, got those accounts tagged
with neg trust. So they probably ended up not being able to sell/selling the neg trust account for way lower than the amount they originally loaned.

I guess this means only altcoins are possible collaterals now?

Which is why, I personally only look into casino bankrolls as investments.
It's too much trouble dealing with people when lending.

boyptc

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Quote from: DeDordtenaar on November 17, 2016, 06:09:01 PM

Quote from: MinerHQ on November 16, 2016, 08:53:26 PM

Quote from: crazyivan on November 15, 2016, 07:45:42 AM

Quote from: veleten on November 15, 2016, 06:08:25 AM

look,btc casinos investments is a long term game
you cannot expect profit short term,because of many variables
but 1% house edge (or less at some casinos) ALWAYS factors in,the longer you keep your money
the more chances that you have steady,healthy profit
I suggest you invest at least for 12 months to be able to judge,anything less than 6 months could be even negative profit,because of the whales winning
and thus cutting the sites bankroll and everybody elses profit with it

This is a great advice. Do not invest into casinos if u expect daily profits, it s not gonna happen. Profits and loses come in waves, at least major ones. Pick a reputable one, put money there and forget it for a year. If you cannot do that, find another option to invest.

I do agree on investing on good reputable sites and wait for some time to grow your investment. But I don't agree that forget your money for one year because one should always watch their investment performance to book profits on right time otherwise you may miss the chance to earn good profit. Exactly after one year before you check if someone wins very huge amount then your one year will be wasted. So you need to monitor your investments now and then.

I think we have to choose a gambling site not just on their reputation high dude, maybe you can find stats on that site, when the site more often profiy maybe you can try to invest there. yeah I agree with you, after we invest we must continue to monitor perhaps one per few days, just to be sure or do checking on your investment

That is a must when we are going to invest in bitcoin casino's and as many reputable casinos you will invest and the higher bankroll you will invest with them and that will be an assurance that it will give you higher profit. Even though we may not determine the real profit you can get but since you have a lot of source then that will be an advantage.

fullypak

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Quote from: LuanX3 on November 17, 2016, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: MinerHQ on November 17, 2016, 08:43:51 PM

Quote from: mbbtc01 on November 16, 2016, 09:23:13 PM

Quote from: Alex_ZZX on August 02, 2016, 01:35:24 PM

I don't think that is good idea considering gambling as investment.

I agree but investing in loans or something else as you never now when the site you invest in might shut

Why do you want to lend money without holding any collateral? That will be the biggest mistake if you give money without holding collateral. I always lend only with the collaterals which I can sell off easily in case borrower don't pay back my money. If you manage it properly this business gives a good profit.

True, you cannot lend money to untrusted people. Most of the time they will run. You have to get collateral more than what you loaned them. So they have a reason to come back and pay for the loan.

But most of the sites which facilitate P2P lending money will not allow holding collateral to a lender, and that's why so many scams are happening in those places like BTCJam. One can try lending on this forum by taking a collateral and didn't find any other place to lend by holding collateral.

LuanX3

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Quote from: MinerHQ on November 17, 2016, 08:43:51 PM

Quote from: mbbtc01 on November 16, 2016, 09:23:13 PM

Quote from: Alex_ZZX on August 02, 2016, 01:35:24 PM

I don't think that is good idea considering gambling as investment.

I agree but investing in loans or something else as you never now when the site you invest in might shut

Why do you want to lend money without holding any collateral? That will be the biggest mistake if you give money without holding collateral. I always lend only with the collaterals which I can sell off easily in case borrower don't pay back my money. If you manage it properly this business gives a good profit.

True, you cannot lend money to untrusted people. Most of the time they will run. You have to get collateral more than what you loaned them. So they have a reason to come back and pay for the loan.

MinerHQ

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Quote from: mbbtc01 on November 16, 2016, 09:23:13 PM

Quote from: Alex_ZZX on August 02, 2016, 01:35:24 PM

I don't think that is good idea considering gambling as investment.

I agree but investing in loans or something else as you never now when the site you invest in might shut

Why do you want to lend money without holding any collateral? That will be the biggest mistake if you give money without holding collateral. I always lend only with the collaterals which I can sell off easily in case borrower don't pay back my money. If you manage it properly this business gives a good profit.

DeDordtenaar

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Quote from: MinerHQ on November 16, 2016, 08:53:26 PM

Quote from: crazyivan on November 15, 2016, 07:45:42 AM

Quote from: veleten on November 15, 2016, 06:08:25 AM

look,btc casinos investments is a long term game
you cannot expect profit short term,because of many variables
but 1% house edge (or less at some casinos) ALWAYS factors in,the longer you keep your money
the more chances that you have steady,healthy profit
I suggest you invest at least for 12 months to be able to judge,anything less than 6 months could be even negative profit,because of the whales winning
and thus cutting the sites bankroll and everybody elses profit with it

This is a great advice. Do not invest into casinos if u expect daily profits, it s not gonna happen. Profits and loses come in waves, at least major ones. Pick a reputable one, put money there and forget it for a year. If you cannot do that, find another option to invest.

I do agree on investing on good reputable sites and wait for some time to grow your investment. But I don't agree that forget your money for one year because one should always watch their investment performance to book profits on right time otherwise you may miss the chance to earn good profit. Exactly after one year before you check if someone wins very huge amount then your one year will be wasted. So you need to monitor your investments now and then.

I think we have to choose a gambling site not just on their reputation high dude, maybe you can find stats on that site, when the site more often profiy maybe you can try to invest there. yeah I agree with you, after we invest we must continue to monitor perhaps one per few days, just to be sure or do checking on your investment

mrcash02

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on November 17, 2016, 07:17:37 AM

Quote from: BTCyuan$euro on November 17, 2016, 07:07:41 AM

Don't you think that all BTC casinos are just a freud?

Of course not. Most of them have a provably fair system for verifying the rolls and the top ones are all trusted. Their casino bankroll investment schemes are also legitimate as far as the top casinos are concerned and they are a good investment to allow your coins to grow, passively. Though it is not recommended for panicky investors and only considered as profitable as a long term investment.

Well, they show the rolls verification with those seeds and codes, but sometimes it's hard to believe when we lose many times consecutive, I can't afirm, but a chance in 2 million happen very frequently in casinos...

Anyway, the investment feature is good when we don't have lots of people investing like now. It can be profitable of course.

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Quote from: NorrisK on November 14, 2016, 04:31:34 PM

Quote from: BTCLovingDude on November 14, 2016, 08:10:10 AM

Quote from: Erza on November 14, 2016, 07:59:17 AM

Quote from: klf on November 14, 2016, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: BTCevo on November 14, 2016, 12:35:02 AM

Quote from: MinerHQ on November 13, 2016, 08:52:17 PM

Quote from: SparkedDev on November 13, 2016, 12:26:21 PM

Bitvest has a very nice investment option and requires no minimum investment holding time.

Here's a little more about it:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitvest-invest-in-a-gambling-site-1375103

I suggest not just put all your money in any one site because you may lose big percentage of your investment if anyone wins a big amount. So it is good to put your money in few good sites, so your losses will reduce in such worst cases. I never keep all my money in any one site.

Actually you may put all to one investment more over if gambling inveatment though because in the end house always get profit so it just matter of time when you will reocver it though. And you need some review about the site that you want to put your money too. Not all site give you some good payout from their investment and you need to see whether that site have a good traffic or not to get some good roi

I don't agree to keep all your money in any one site whether it is has got a super performance in the past because in gambling industry old performance will not give any guaranty that they will repeat same performance in the future. So to avoid sudden surprises, it is always good to go with diversification than sticking with any one or two sites.

What do you mean by super performance? Nothing has to do with their performance though and what they really want is to attract big whale to play on their site, so with all of my money put it on one investment (big amount), they will have big bankroll so the max bet that player can play is much more bigger so this will attract big whale to play and we can hope to earn from this. When you diversify it and make it become less investment better you need to stop though because the payout only some tiny penny

i think he is talking about their popularity and how many players they have attracted to play on their site. and i have to say it may seem like a good idea but at the same time the risks are still there but in another form.

imagine a famous site which has lots of players many of them whales, this makes the risk of one of those whales winning a big amount that much higher.

In the long run those hales will still be losers.

How do you think some gambling sites make big profits? It's not the fish, it is the whales that feed them.

well i wouldn't be so sure about that if i were you because most of those whales would leave with their withdrawal and don't come back for a long time to gamble again and when they do, they don't bring in their winning amount but instead they come back with the same old amount they used to play with.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: BTCyuan$euro on November 17, 2016, 07:07:41 AM

Don't you think that all BTC casinos are just a freud?

Of course not. Most of them have a provably fair system for verifying the rolls and the top ones are all trusted. Their casino bankroll investment schemes are also legitimate as far as the top casinos are concerned and they are a good investment to allow your coins to grow, passively. Though it is not recommended for panicky investors and only considered as profitable as a long term investment.

BTCyuan$euro

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Don't you think that all BTC casinos are just a freud?

acroman08

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Quote from: LuanX3 on November 16, 2016, 11:21:37 PM

In my opinion, if you're doing this short term then you're better off not investing in the casinos. This is a long term kind of investment, and you should consider the odds of the house are losing too. Sometimes the house suddenly loses money because a gambler hit it big time. So far, I tried investing in satoshidice and have profited, but not too much, because the amount of the bankroll is so huge already and I only got to have a small piece of the pie.

Which is why I personally go for sites that don't have too big of a bankroll yet. This doesn't mean that I invest on new casinos because that would be too risky, but there are ones with a good reputation and have been running for years which has moderate bankrolls.

This way, I get a bigger percentage compared to those who has thousands of other investors.

And yes, investing on casino bankroll is definitely for the long term. You monitor your investment but never expect good returns on a weekly/monthly basis. A casino can have a good income for a month, in which case you also get a good return but they can also have big losses because of whale wins, which would mean a loss for that month as well. (Which is why I get nervous when whales are playing. lol)

LuanX3

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In my opinion, if you're doing this short term then you're better off not investing in the casinos. This is a long term kind of investment, and you should consider the odds of the house are losing too. Sometimes the house suddenly loses money because a gambler hit it big time. So far, I tried investing in satoshidice and have profited, but not too much, because the amount of the bankroll is so huge already and I only got to have a small piece of the pie.

bitcoinmasterlord

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Quote from: mbbtc01 on November 16, 2016, 09:23:13 PM

Quote from: Alex_ZZX on August 02, 2016, 01:35:24 PM

I don't think that is good idea considering gambling as investment.

I agree but investing in loans or something else as you never now when the site you invest in might shut

You never should invest if you don't have a control on collateral because many scammers are looking for opportunities in those sites and surely you will lose a lot of money from those sites in the longer run. But in the longer run you can make profit from casino bankroll investments.

Topic: Investing in btc casinos - page 38. (Read 40405 times)