Iran Attempts to Stop British Commercial Ship - page 2.

Rockie1234

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 12:52:39 AM

Yet again, Iran is going down a path of no return as they attempted to stop a British commercial vessel today which was in the Strait of Hormuz. They had only turned stopped and turned around when they were approached by a British Royal Navy Frigate.

The leaders in Iran are obviously attempting to show that they will stop at nothing in order to get a deal out of the Trump administration and the EU, though it seems like they may fail to retain their leadership on the country if they continue to anger more and more world powers.

I'll be attempting to post updates as they come (https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-iranian-vessels-tried-to-block-u-k-ship-from-passing-through-strait-of-hormuz-11562822874?mod=hp_lead_pos1)

As others have said, this does not accurately portray the whole situation. The USA started by withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal. I suppose whether this deal was good or not can be argued, but it was already in place and agreed to. In fact, the European powers were pretty satisfied with it and saw it as a major diplomatic step forward. What Trump did, revoking this deal, is completely unacceptable in diplomatic practice.The only reason it was probably done is to appease allies like the Saudis.

To drive the point home, let's take a hypothetical situation. America has an important strategic deal with another country, which is suddenly revoked for no good reason, and with heavy sanctions imposed on America, causing the dollar to sink down into the ground, and with even more Americans being afflicted with poverty. Will America just passively comply? Of course not.

And you are telling me that Iran should just bow down to blatant aggression? America is doing everything it can to provoke Iran, of course Iran can't just submit to so much humiliation. And any future trust for salvaging any other deals with iran is destroyed.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 12:52:39 AM

Yet again, Iran is going down a path of no return as they attempted to stop a British commercial vessel today which was in the Strait of Hormuz. They had only turned stopped and turned around when they were approached by a British Royal Navy Frigate.

The leaders in Iran are obviously attempting to show that they will stop at nothing in order to get a deal out of the Trump administration and the EU, though it seems like they may fail to retain their leadership on the country if they continue to anger more and more world powers.

I'll be attempting to post updates as they come (https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-iranian-vessels-tried-to-block-u-k-ship-from-passing-through-strait-of-hormuz-11562822874?mod=hp_lead_pos1)

thats not good for britain many british companies will try to sail under nonbritish flags in the future

after brexit they have exposed themselves to the free sharks of global politics

Spendulus

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Quote from: coins4commies on July 11, 2019, 01:11:07 AM

So dishonest of you not to mention that this was an equal response to Britain pirating the Iranian oil tanker grace 1 in Gibraltar. The world clearly belongs to the US, UK and their allies. Everyone else is just living in it on lease.

Looking into it, I find the following.

https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/piracy-iran-reveals-why-the-uk-illegally-seized-its-oil-tanker-at-gibraltar/

Gibraltar police and customs agencies, aided by a detachment of British Royal Marines, boarded and impounded supertanker Grace 1, carrying Iranian oil, in the Strait of Gibraltar on Thursday, upon a request from the United States.

Later that day, Iran’s Foreign Ministry summoned Britain’s ambassador to the country, Rob Macaire, to express its strong protest at the move. He was told that the British Royal Marines’ move was tantamount to “maritime piracy.”

London claims that the tanker had been carrying Iranian oil to Syria, which is under European Union’s sanctions but Iran says first, the tanker was not headed to Syria, and second, Iran is not a member an EU member and also not subject to any European oil embargo. Tehran has called for an immediate release of the oil tanker warning that the responsibility for consequences of this provocative acts falls on London. “I warn England that you are the initiator of insecurity in seas and you will later understand its repercussions,” President Rouhani said Wednesday.

Iran says US is behind the measure which tries to bring down Iranian oil sales to zero as part of its maximum pressure policy against the Islamic Republic. Iranian officials reiterate that this policy will not yield any result for Washington as Iranians are well familiar with the culture of resistance.

Seems to me Iran's bitch is with the government of Gilbrador. Oh, you know what? Iran seems to think so as well. Iran is talking with Gilbrador trying to get the tanker back, but their Supreme Court says it can be detained another 30 days.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/07/19/601305/Gibraltar-Iran-UK-tanker-Grace-1

....An initial order by the court authorizing the detention of the vessel would lapse after Friday.

The court's decision came a day after a senior Gibraltar's official described as “constructive” talks with Iran, raising hopes that the tanker would be released imminently.

squatz1

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 17, 2019, 03:09:42 PM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

And this is why the rest of the world calls you guys the worlds police and surprise surprise some countries get a little touchy when you all want to police their shit....

Regime change has been such a resounding success for the US historically, I mean especially in the middle east...(/s)

Your stupid cunt of a president pulled out of the agreement that was keeping Iran from getting Nukes...

But don't worry if Bolton, Pompeo and you get your way their will be a regime change at the cost of thousands upon thousands of lives, and then in a decade or 2 they will be the new enemy and you can do it all over again!!!!!! Imagine how many trillions of USD in profit the military industrial complex is making though eh!!!!!!!

So what you're doing is attacking me based on something that is true - Iran can (and should) go through regime change. They're a power that has been supporting terrorism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism) for a long time.

Real diplomatic, referring to the US president (the leader of the free world) as a 'stupid cunt of a President' -- Even disregarding that for a second, the Iran deal was shit (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/iran-nuclear-deal-flawed/559595/) and it was a way for Obama to say he had won an American deal on foreign policy.

I do think there should be regime change in Iran, I don't think the US should do nation-building though -- just remove that regime from power and allow for them to pick a new leader.

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

And this is why the rest of the world calls you guys the worlds police and surprise surprise some countries get a little touchy when you all want to police their shit....

Regime change has been such a resounding success for the US historically, I mean especially in the middle east...(/s)

Your stupid cunt of a president pulled out of the agreement that was keeping Iran from getting Nukes...

But don't worry if Bolton, Pompeo and you get your way their will be a regime change at the cost of thousands upon thousands of lives, and then in a decade or 2 they will be the new enemy and you can do it all over again!!!!!! Imagine how many trillions of USD in profit the military industrial complex is making though eh!!!!!!!

Naida_BR

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I feel like it is a valid move from Iranian government in their endeavors of proving that they control the Strait of Hormuz.
After the recent empowerment of US forces in the area, Iran will try more to show that they are not afraid of any US forces.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 10:23:48 PM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They don't have much of a hand, and are trying to make the most out of what they have. If Iran can survive over the long term, they need to get sanctions lifted. Their actions is getting the attention of the international community, but not in a way such that is provoking enough fear to be willing to lift sanctions. The risk is they will escalate to more hostile actions that results in a war.

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

North Korea does not have the ability to disrupt important trade the same way Iran does. I would say Iran actually has a better chance to get sanctions lifted without a complete Nuclear ban + inspections to verify because of their proximity to the Strait of Hormuz. Technically speaking, there are not any real negotiations going on with North Korea; my understanding is the US is unwilling to budge as to what it is asking for in exchange for lifting any sanctions, that is the complete, verifiable denuclearation that cannot be reversed in North Korea. The US may be willing to discuss what else it will do besides lifting sanctions after the above happens.

Iran may have the ability to cause some issues with global trade, but the North Koreans have the ability to literally destroy a certain city in the world just by sending off their nuclear bomb.

World trade disruptions mean nothing compared to nuclear weapons. You have to understand that.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They don't have much of a hand, and are trying to make the most out of what they have. If Iran can survive over the long term, they need to get sanctions lifted. Their actions is getting the attention of the international community, but not in a way such that is provoking enough fear to be willing to lift sanctions. The risk is they will escalate to more hostile actions that results in a war.

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

North Korea does not have the ability to disrupt important trade the same way Iran does. I would say Iran actually has a better chance to get sanctions lifted without a complete Nuclear ban + inspections to verify because of their proximity to the Strait of Hormuz. Technically speaking, there are not any real negotiations going on with North Korea; my understanding is the US is unwilling to budge as to what it is asking for in exchange for lifting any sanctions, that is the complete, verifiable denuclearation that cannot be reversed in North Korea. The US may be willing to discuss what else it will do besides lifting sanctions after the above happens.

coins4commies

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

A ship for a ship is not an escalation. If Iran's ships can't safely travel through Gibralter, British ships should not be allowed to safely travel through Hormuz. Chronology is key to determining who provoked who and who is the aggressor. Britain provoked this by capturing grace 1. 450 years of events to review and you still can't figure out who has been the aggressor around the world.

You are not just ignoring history, you aren't even using basic logic. The same few countries are and have been involved in conflicts around the entire globe with so many different parties yet you think its always the fault of the other parties and not the same few countries constantly causing problems around the world.

squatz1

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Quote from: TECSHARE on July 11, 2019, 10:55:16 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on July 11, 2019, 10:22:10 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

This is interesting, I had not read this. Do you have any sources for statements from them where they compare themselves to North Korea?

Yeah, I listen to a podcast from the WSJ and the NY Times.

Had a very interesting take on the whole situation here - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/podcasts/the-daily/north-korea-iran-nuclear-deal.html

Very listen. Just know you may have a liberal bias on Ny times and consv on wsj

Before I listen to this long form piece, did you base the idea on statements from Iran itself or the interpretation of the reporters here? All sources have a bias, but that is more of a problem if it is an opinion piece rather than just reporting facts.

This is based on the interpretations of Iranian actions and talks by National Security experts from the Times.

Not an opinion piece though I could see how you could interpret it as such as it is pretty much just someone's interpretation (which is an opinion) on the matter.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on July 11, 2019, 10:22:10 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

This is interesting, I had not read this. Do you have any sources for statements from them where they compare themselves to North Korea?

Yeah, I listen to a podcast from the WSJ and the NY Times.

Had a very interesting take on the whole situation here - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/podcasts/the-daily/north-korea-iran-nuclear-deal.html

Very listen. Just know you may have a liberal bias on Ny times and consv on wsj

Before I listen to this long form piece, did you base the idea on statements from Iran itself or the interpretation of the reporters here? All sources have a bias, but that is more of a problem if it is an opinion piece rather than just reporting facts.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: TECSHARE on July 11, 2019, 10:22:10 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

This is interesting, I had not read this. Do you have any sources for statements from them where they compare themselves to North Korea?

Yeah, I listen to a podcast from the WSJ and the NY Times.

Had a very interesting take on the whole situation here - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/podcasts/the-daily/north-korea-iran-nuclear-deal.html

Very listen. Just know you may have a liberal bias on Ny times and consv on wsj

TECSHARE

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

This is interesting, I had not read this. Do you have any sources for statements from them where they compare themselves to North Korea?

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 11, 2019, 03:43:24 AM

If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

I fully understand what they’re trying to do. But I think they’re overplaying their hand here.

They’re comparing themselves a little too much to the North Koreans, and they think they can get the same negotiations and deal with their sanctions. The only reason North Korea may get that deal is because theres no other power in North Korea that the US wants to take over and can see bringing peace.

Iran is different, Iran has people that can takeover.

PrimeNumber7

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If Iran had been successful in seizing the ship, we would be much closer to war with Iran.

I suspect this will eventually lead to Iran escalating the situation in one way or another by making it more dangerous. for ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's goal is to make this passage way unsafe to travel through to get the West to remove sanctions against Iran. If they cannot use their Navy to do this, they may resort to surface-to-surface missiles to attack civilian commercial ships traveling through the Straight; this would clearly provoke conflict.

I don't think it is very likely to see the year ending without some kind of military action against Iran.

TECSHARE

legendary

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Quote from: coins4commies on July 11, 2019, 01:28:59 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 01:16:42 AM

Quote from: coins4commies on July 11, 2019, 01:11:07 AM

So dishonest of you not to mention that this was an equal response to Britain pirating the Iranian oil tanker grace 1 in Gibraltar. The world clearly belongs to the US, UK and their allies. Everyone else is just living in it on lease.

Dishonest of you to fail to notice that Iran had been violating EU sanctions on Syria by attempting to sell them oil. So they had been violating international law that they had originally agreed to, and they were punished for it. Retailing when you're wrong isn't something that is going to work too well in the international stage.

Selling oil is violation of international law? Nope. Oh its just when Iran sells oil to someone you don't want to have oil? See how that works? When you think you own the entire planet, you get to try to control who does what with whom when. Its a telling slip that you called EU sanctions "international law". The world never came together and said Syria can't have oil. Sanctions are nothing more than a form of economic violence.

Is that kind of like "hate speech" being a form of "verbal violence" justifying an actual violent response?

coins4commies

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Quote from: squatz1 on July 11, 2019, 01:16:42 AM

Quote from: coins4commies on July 11, 2019, 01:11:07 AM

So dishonest of you not to mention that this was an equal response to Britain pirating the Iranian oil tanker grace 1 in Gibraltar. The world clearly belongs to the US, UK and their allies. Everyone else is just living in it on lease.

Dishonest of you to fail to notice that Iran had been violating EU sanctions on Syria by attempting to sell them oil. So they had been violating international law that they had originally agreed to, and they were punished for it. Retailing when you're wrong isn't something that is going to work too well in the international stage.

Selling oil is violation of international law? Nope. Oh its just when Iran sells oil to someone you don't want to have oil? See how that works? When you think you own the entire planet, you get to try to control who does what with whom when. Its a telling slip that you called EU sanctions "international law". The world never came together and said Syria can't have oil. Sanctions are nothing more than a form of economic violence.

TECSHARE

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IMO Iran is desperately trying to provoke an armed response from the USA. I would wager the Chinese have pledged to back them up militarily if it were to happen, and if it did Russia would likely step in too. China can't take the USA alone, but with Russia and Iranian fronts also active they have a very good chance. This is 100% strategic rope a dope type tactics. Thankfully Trump has resisted this response so far. China is suffering economically and they are desperate to find ways to change the status quo, and a very irate Iran is a convenient proxy to do so for them.

squatz1

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Quote from: coins4commies on July 11, 2019, 01:11:07 AM

So dishonest of you not to mention that this was an equal response to Britain pirating the Iranian oil tanker grace 1 in Gibraltar. The world clearly belongs to the US, UK and their allies. Everyone else is just living in it on lease.

Dishonest of you to fail to notice that Iran had been violating EU sanctions on Syria by attempting to sell them oil. So they had been violating international law that they had originally agreed to, and they were punished for it. Retailing when you're wrong isn't something that is going to work too well in the international stage.

coins4commies

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So dishonest of you not to mention that this was an equal response to Britain pirating the Iranian oil tanker grace 1 in Gibraltar. The world clearly belongs to the US, UK and their allies. Everyone else is just living in it on lease.

Topic: Iran Attempts to Stop British Commercial Ship - page 2. (Read 548 times)