IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income

Lucius

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I hope all the time that someone will write that some IRS official did something stupid and that such a law cannot be true, but they are really serious about this Shocked

I wonder if anyone will really act in a way to report such things, thinking that this will legalize their crime and or at least in some way calm their conscience.

The only thing missing from the whole story is that the IRS will reward anyone who reports stealing or bribing - and the rewards can be a coffee cup labeled "Crime pays off, only if you pay taxes." Cheesy

DrBeer

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I wonder if a person pays taxes on the stolen goods, he becomes the owner?

And if he indicated that it was "not legally acquired" - is the fiscal service obliged to transfer the information to the police, for example? Not ? Almost everywhere such a situation will be considered as a concealment or complicity in a crime ... In a word, the situation is somehow crazy

Oceat

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Quote from: pinggoki on January 02, 2022, 02:11:29 AM

I don't know if this is a trap or an invitation for criminals. I think that declaration of stolen goods isn't really a good thing because I don't think that people aren't dumb enough to declare what they've stolen. Besides being absurd, I think that this is also a big waste on time and tax dollars.

I don't know if this is a joke or not but it looks like they were too desperate to claim taxes even if it's from illegal activities as long as you pay your taxes, that's all that matters they don't really care where it came from. I don't know if someone would do it but this is so absurd to believe. You might as well right if this is a trap since it looks like a trap to catch criminals or someone who does some dirty work to earn an easy money.

Findingnemo

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Hey yeah, I am ready to report it, I am going to Rob a bank nearby and use a stolen car as well to take the robbed money3to my home hut IRS don't worry I will pay the taxes for them and will keep the remaining amount because I worked for it.

Stupidity at its best though. Roll Eyes

LoyceV

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Quote from: DaveF on December 30, 2021, 01:29:53 PM

Tax evasion is how they got Al Capone 90 years ago
https://themobmuseum.org/blog/capone-tax-evasion-trial-jury-finds-chicago-mobster-guilty-on-5-of-22-counts/

I thought everyone knew this. It's actually an interesting way to go about it for people who declare very little income abut spend tons of money.

If he would have reported his criminal income to taxes, they would have had hard evidence, and his prison sentence would probably have been much longer. They only used the tax evasion for the trial because they couldn't prove anything else.

Quote from: so98nn on January 01, 2022, 06:55:42 AM

. . and why is this not a part of money laundering?

Money laundering is when you pretend the money was earned elsewhere, right? So: you steal a car, sell it, and launder the by pretending you earned the money from the car wash you own. IRS doesn't want that, they just want you to report the sale of the stolen car. Lol Cheesy

So the IRS' stance is: as long as you pay taxes, they don't care?

TimeTeller

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Quote from: paxmao on January 04, 2022, 06:07:11 PM

Quote from: eaLiTy on January 02, 2022, 03:52:27 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on December 30, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

~
While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime.

I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others.

They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in Cheesy

.

Perhaps this is just a legal requirement to be able to later indict those that took bribes or earned on illicit activities on the usual charges plus the ones related to financial fraud. Effectively, this means that they will, for example get 10 years for drug trafficking and another 5 for fraud, so it basically makes their liability for anything that produces a profit even larger and also allows going after their accounts easier.

Do they really think that people who steal or accept bribes will report what they got?
This is somewhat funny but I believe, there's more story on this.
But high likely that people doing their illegal activities won't report it.
Because it is admitting their crime and it equates to possible jail time.
So don't know how they can encourage those people to come up front and report what they did?

paxmao

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Quote from: eaLiTy on January 02, 2022, 03:52:27 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on December 30, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

~
While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime.

I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others.

They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in Cheesy

.

Perhaps this is just a legal requirement to be able to later indict those that took bribes or earned on illicit activities on the usual charges plus the ones related to financial fraud. Effectively, this means that they will, for example get 10 years for drug trafficking and another 5 for fraud, so it basically makes their liability for anything that produces a profit even larger and also allows going after their accounts easier.

avikz

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Quote from: Hydrogen on December 30, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime.

Well, does that mean, crime will be legal in future as an individual will be paying taxes on it?

The entire matter sounds like an oxymoron to me! Why on earth someone will be declaring that he had stolen a property and earned some money from it and then paying taxes on it! It's hilarious to be honest!

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Hydrogen on December 30, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

~
While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime.

I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others.

They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in Cheesy

.

pinggoki

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I don't know if this is a trap or an invitation for criminals. I think that declaration of stolen goods isn't really a good thing because I don't think that people aren't dumb enough to declare what they've stolen. Besides being absurd, I think that this is also a big waste on time and tax dollars.

Wexnident

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I mean, they're technically right you know? It is technically income, and well, the IRS is responsible for collecting taxes from the citizens, so with that being the case, just looking beyond whether said income is stolen or not, they're actually doing their job. Now whether this is actually ethically correct or not, well... I'm pretty sure we all know the answer to that.

Though I guess seeing the case of Al Capone (pointed out by DaveF and odolvlobo), if it were used that way then it does make some sense, but I guess it's more of a specialized method hence why it's rather odd for most people (including me) to actually see it. Tried looking for more cases like Al Capone though I didn't find any, that or I suck at looking up stuff on the internet.

so98nn

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. . and why is this not a part of money laundering? I mean if we go with this news then imagine the amount of drugs that is caught up at the airports every year around the world! This could be part of big revenue in terms of taxes. However, I don't understand one thing here, in what legal book this one is written? Or is it like they are making their own comforting rules for themselves? How they can levy taxes on smuggled things if no one is gonna utilise it after it is being captured by the legal authorities. For example, goods and services when sold get the taxes paid by end user which then is paid to the IRS while filing the income tax returns.

Since in this case there are no organisation, no user, how are they getting the same?

If property is stolen and it got captured by authorities then its value is zero because it wont be sold up ahead, right? How is it going to be taxed property!

DaveF

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Quote from: hello_good_sir on December 31, 2021, 08:38:15 AM

Do they expect criminals to reveal all their wrongdoings for the greater good? What is even the point of saying this anyway?

The point as was shown above was a round about way to go after people like Capone and other criminals who through bribes / influence / killing of witnesses / fear / etc. could not be convicted of other things other ways. They rarely go after the smaller people with this it's is usually the bigger criminals who would get away with it.
It's also used against politicians where you can see that they have been spending more then they earned but you can't figure out where the bribe came from....

-Dave

hello_good_sir

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This is beyond absurd.

Do they expect criminals to reveal all their wrongdoings for the greater good? What is even the point of saying this anyway?

They must be high when they wrote this law - legitimately. Or perhaps they unironically thought that it would be a good profit-making undertaking to include these two paragraphs. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

kaya11

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Quote from: Gozie51 on December 30, 2021, 12:36:54 PM

Well I don't understand the duty of the law enforcement agency in the case where stolen bitcoin will be reported as income. I mean that in the instance is stealing and the person has to face punishment and not just the interest of the income to it . This is to discourage hackers and scammers. Is awful to here such that the first interest should be tax.

It is a trap, where in a side your free to steal Bitcoin and therefore when you report it to the authorities, cuffs and bars are waiting for you and goodbye to stealing Bitcoin again. What the hell is wrong with the people today, telling people it is okay to steal then report it as an income?

odolvlobo

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This is old news.

Al Capone, the famous Chicago crime boss in the 1920's, was not convicted and sent to prison for murder, etc. He was convicted and sent to prison for tax evasion.

Sithara007

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We have similar laws in our country (India) as well. Even if the income is sourced from an illegal business, the tax law states that it needs to be reported in the returns and due tax needs to be paid. A few years ago, when the legal status of Bitcoin was in limbo, several of the Bitcoin traders received notices from the income tax department. It explicitly stated that Bitcoin trading is not 100% legal, but the traders still need to pay taxes on any profits they receive from these transactions. Fortunately in India, the IT department is not as stringent as the one in the States.

timerland

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Ah yes - criminals are going to expose themselves by paying their taxes so that when they do get charged, they will at least avoid the tax evasion ones Roll Eyes

It's honestly ridiculous and a perfect encapsulation of how archaic and unreasonable the current tax code is in most countries.

Hopefully blockchain technology can help the processing of tax be more efficient and fair for everyone involved.

bittraffic

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Robbers from now on have to have thier inventory for the stolen cars and money they got from robbing. Unless they are returning it in the same year Cheesy

They are going to be listed as the dumbest criminals after reporting thier inventory to the IRS.

This has got to be the most unbelievable laws they've created but they are pretty much serious about it so one thing is for sure politicians are likely to be jailed soon.

Darker45

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Funny! But if we are to be strict about it, what the IRS is doing sounds just right, although they seem to be too religious on their job that they seem to be doing the unnecessary extra mile and obviously look ridiculous as a result. But they're doing their job perfectly. I'd say they deserve an applause for it. Indeed, income comes in many forms and it certainly includes bribes and whatnot. But what I am curious of is whether the people who are involved in such activities would be so honest they would declare even their stolen money or properties?

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