Is ASIC's a SCAM? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Frequency

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COINDER

Quote from: BitcoinOxygen on October 19, 2012, 07:22:17 PM

Quote from: Frequency on October 19, 2012, 07:12:21 PM

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on October 19, 2012, 05:51:46 PM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 08:46:40 AM

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

so, gpus were a scam when everyone was mining with cpus?

\

come on gpu comes from an million dollar gaming industrie that are facts ...not air,

another fact is this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-butterfly-labs-ceo-25-million-usd-mail-fraud-a-concise-summary-of-evidence-110805

Lets all just mine on ,..in 6 weeks a lot wil be cleared out...Cheers

6 week's is a long time

if they turn out to be true everyone who did not preorder is losing the chance of mining with big hasrate at a low difficulty.

and if they turn out to be a scam everyone who did preorder ASIC will be in LOSS.

i can wait and take some lose, but if it,s for real i jump the fuck in to maybe a little later there are years ahead of mining it is not a short distance race, and IF they deliver as promised u will get some advantage for taking the risk of an pre order but don,t count on it its freaking end of oktober still no signs.. nothing ...but i really hoop they don,t scam on my fello miners i really do ...

SLok

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Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 05:34:31 PM

Quote from: yrtrnc on October 19, 2012, 03:04:36 PM

Because you can make more money selling the equipment for a profit. And its riskier to mine than sell the equipment..

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 11:06:32 AM

Quote from: maqifrnswa on October 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 09:01:10 AM

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

I feel like I have to respond before something thinks what he wrote is true. The 30,000 rig will take much more than 50 days to payoff unless you are the only person in the world with the equipment. The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, so within a few days of the first batch being received difficulty will rise by a factor of 4 (the maximum it can change, see the wiki article on "target") and will continue until it reaches steady state. your 50 days has now become 200 days a few days after receiving your rig, and will probably settle at somewhere around a year or more in the end.

Stating that BLF wont be "the only ~~person~~company in the world to have them"?

Edit:

I'm just saying, why wouldn't a company use this, make a shit load of cash, forcing the blocks to be harder, in turn forcing people to buy their products?

Explain your logic, good sir? $30,000 in 50 days is more profit than $10-20,000 in 1 sale.

But it doesn't take 50 days to make and sell one. Say they make 1 a day, and sell it, that's $10,000 to $20,000 (to keep your estimated profit per piece) a day, so profit is in producing and selling fast, while people still see a roi in it.

BitcoinOxygen

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Quote from: Frequency on October 19, 2012, 07:12:21 PM

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on October 19, 2012, 05:51:46 PM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 08:46:40 AM

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

so, gpus were a scam when everyone was mining with cpus?

\

come on gpu comes from an million dollar gaming industrie that are facts ...not air,

another fact is this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-butterfly-labs-ceo-25-million-usd-mail-fraud-a-concise-summary-of-evidence-110805

Lets all just mine on ,..in 6 weeks a lot wil be cleared out...Cheers

6 week's is a long time

if they turn out to be true everyone who did not preorder is losing the chance of mining with big hasrate at a low difficulty.

and if they turn out to be a scam everyone who did preorder ASIC will be in LOSS.

Frequency

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Activity: 540

Merit: 500

COINDER

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on October 19, 2012, 05:51:46 PM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 08:46:40 AM

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

so, gpus were a scam when everyone was mining with cpus?

\

come on gpu comes from an million dollar gaming industrie that are facts ...not air,

another fact is this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-butterfly-labs-ceo-25-million-usd-mail-fraud-a-concise-summary-of-evidence-110805

Lets all just mine on ,..in 6 weeks a lot wil be cleared out...Cheers

BitcoinOxygen

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on October 19, 2012, 05:51:46 PM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 08:46:40 AM

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

so, gpus were a scam when everyone was mining with cpus?

no GPU's where not a scam everyone had access to prove GPU mining is real?

but is there anyway to prove that ASIC's are for real?

jjiimm_64

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Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 08:46:40 AM

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

so, gpus were a scam when everyone was mining with cpus?

farlack

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Activity: 1310

Merit: 1000

Quote from: yrtrnc on October 19, 2012, 03:04:36 PM

Because you can make more money selling the equipment for a profit. And its riskier to mine than sell the equipment..

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 11:06:32 AM

Quote from: maqifrnswa on October 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 09:01:10 AM

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

I feel like I have to respond before something thinks what he wrote is true. The 30,000 rig will take much more than 50 days to payoff unless you are the only person in the world with the equipment. The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, so within a few days of the first batch being received difficulty will rise by a factor of 4 (the maximum it can change, see the wiki article on "target") and will continue until it reaches steady state. your 50 days has now become 200 days a few days after receiving your rig, and will probably settle at somewhere around a year or more in the end.

Stating that BLF wont be "the only ~~person~~company in the world to have them"?

Edit:

I'm just saying, why wouldn't a company use this, make a shit load of cash, forcing the blocks to be harder, in turn forcing people to buy their products?

Explain your logic, good sir? $30,000 in 50 days is more profit than $10-20,000 in 1 sale.

makomk

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Quote from: Gatorhex on October 19, 2012, 06:07:45 AM

If I had to bet on anyone delivering ASIC it would be BFL as they are way ahead of anyone else on delivering bitcoin consumer products.

They've got the most convincing photos and should have machine capacity for 900 units per day.

That should burn through pre-orders quickly, so I'm just gonna sit tight and wait for the thing to be in stock.

If they're planning to have the capacity to pump out 900 units per day on a long-term basis, then everyone who buys one is going to be even more screwed than if it was a scam, though. Assuming their mixture of devices averages out to about 30 GH/s per unit, which seems like a reasonably conservative assumption, that means they have the capacity to turn out 27 TH/s of kit every day. That's nearly a petahash/s every month. It won't take long for the break-even point to reach years. Unfortunately most of the costs of ASIC design are non-recurring and BFL will want to make the most of their investment, so if they're rational they'll drop prices hugely once that happens - making the break-even point appear reasonable to new customers, but meaning older ones may never make their costs back at all.

bobitza

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Quote

Is ASIC's a SCAM?

Yes. Don't get scammed.

yrtrnc

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Because you can make more money selling the equipment for a profit. And its riskier to mine than sell the equipment..

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 11:06:32 AM

Quote from: maqifrnswa on October 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 09:01:10 AM

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

I feel like I have to respond before something thinks what he wrote is true. The 30,000 rig will take much more than 50 days to payoff unless you are the only person in the world with the equipment. The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, so within a few days of the first batch being received difficulty will rise by a factor of 4 (the maximum it can change, see the wiki article on "target") and will continue until it reaches steady state. your 50 days has now become 200 days a few days after receiving your rig, and will probably settle at somewhere around a year or more in the end.

Stating that BLF wont be "the only ~~person~~company in the world to have them"?

Edit:

I'm just saying, why wouldn't a company use this, make a shit load of cash, forcing the blocks to be harder, in turn forcing people to buy their products?

regular

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Asics will eventually be made so it's likely not a scam. Even if the current preorders are scams, someone will make one.

Gatorhex

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Quote

"I'm just saying, why wouldn't a company use this, make a shit load of cash, forcing the blocks to be harder, in turn forcing people to buy their products?"

Because you need to raise $millions to make ASICs so you got to sell something to raise the cash I guess.

There's also the problem that if you become the market, there is no market. When the Hunt Bros. cornered the silver market they found there was nobody to sell to, and the price plummeted. Max Keiser did the same thing when he was a trader, he cornered the market in Phillip Morris Options, then later found there was only one buyer who could set the price and lost $millions.

farlack

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Quote from: maqifrnswa on October 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 09:01:10 AM

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

I feel like I have to respond before something thinks what he wrote is true. The 30,000 rig will take much more than 50 days to payoff unless you are the only person in the world with the equipment. The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, so within a few days of the first batch being received difficulty will rise by a factor of 4 (the maximum it can change, see the wiki article on "target") and will continue until it reaches steady state. your 50 days has now become 200 days a few days after receiving your rig, and will probably settle at somewhere around a year or more in the end.

Stating that BLF wont be "the only ~~person~~company in the world to have them"?

Edit:

I'm just saying, why wouldn't a company use this, make a shit load of cash, forcing the blocks to be harder, in turn forcing people to buy their products?

maqifrnswa

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Quote from: farlack on October 19, 2012, 09:01:10 AM

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

I feel like I have to respond before something thinks what he wrote is true. The 30,000 rig will take much more than 50 days to payoff unless you are the only person in the world with the equipment. The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, so within a few days of the first batch being received difficulty will rise by a factor of 4 (the maximum it can change, see the wiki article on "target") and will continue until it reaches steady state. your 50 days has now become 200 days a few days after receiving your rig, and will probably settle at somewhere around a year or more in the end.

farlack

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Quote from: Gatorhex on October 19, 2012, 08:55:22 AM

Quote

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

You do understand the difficulty to generate bitcoins will rise?
No extra profit will be made, they just make graphics cards miners redundant!

Yeah it "will" but it hasn't yet.

Right now that 30,000 rig will take 50 days to pay off.
Why the fuck would you sell something that will make you $30,000 in 50 days, and cut off your own profit? Say they're not being dicks, and they're making a decent margin, they're paying $20,000 for the rig that's $30,000 thats $10,000 profit.

OR you can hold on to them, and make $30,000 in 50 days. Then sell it, and now you have $40,000..
OR... you hold it for life, because you hold the key to the bank.

And it will become harder to get coins?
Yeah you're right, add a few days onto the top, 'when' it happens.

If they 'are' real, they're probably mining them, til the difficulty rises, because it will do 2 things
1. FUCKING BANK $$$$$$$$$$$
2. Force everyone to buy ASICS FASTER

Gatorhex

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Quote

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

You do understand the difficulty to generate bitcoins will rise and/or price per bitcoin will drop?
No extra coins will be mined, no extra profit will really be made, they just make graphics cards miners redundant by taking their share of the profit!

In a gold rush the people who get rich are the stores selling the mining equipment.

farlack

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Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.

Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.

Its bullshit.

Gatorhex

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Quote

Seeing as how they "deliver" in... what was it?... 10 days?... you'd kinda expect they'd at least have a mock up prototype to photograph by now. Hell, they could paint an Apple TV black, lay a Jalapeno on the "Jalapeno" and stick circuitry from a TV remote and some christmas lights inside and it would still be more convincing than what they have now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you prototype an ASIC by building it as an FPGA first?(done) Then you find $millions in funding? (done)
Just saying BFL are more convincing on ASIC than their competition, what have they shown? Not even design images.
You risk little by waiting for it to come into stock, the pre-order will clear pretty fast if their 900 units a day quote on new equipment is true.

Meizirkki

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Quote from: emuLOAD on October 19, 2012, 07:31:13 AM

Quote from: Meizirkki on October 19, 2012, 07:14:14 AM

I'm not very familiar with ASIC's at all, and maybe for that exact reason I find them suspicious. Is it even physically possible with todays technology to do 4.5GH/s with only 5W power consumption?

That's honestly the _least_ of my worries. The whole point of an ASIC is that it's designed exclusively with one task in mind, and when all is said and done it's a fairly "simple" task that simply needs to be done a shedload of times in parallel. With good design and technology, I don't see why that kind of power consumption would seem so low...

I do know the point of ASIC's and why they will be better than current hardware. Here's a better way to put my words: "I'm not familiar with SHA256 and IC desing". Without knowing how exactly simple the operations are and which kind of circuit is needed, I doubt it is physically possible with todays technology to achieve the promised efficiency. Unless you know that it's possible, it should be kind of a big worry. If you do know, please share.

I hope the provided data is accurate. It's time to make the whole Bitcoin network more efficient.

greyhawk

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Quote from: Gatorhex on October 19, 2012, 08:24:59 AM

Quote

How are these photos of ASICs again, which would be kinda relevant in a thread about ASICS

I never said they were photos of ASICs, you won't have photos of ASICs until they are built, will you,
I was talking "most convincing photos" of a business that could deliver ASICs.

Seeing as how they "deliver" in... what was it?... 10 days?... you'd kinda expect they'd at least have a mock up prototype to photograph by now. Hell, they could paint an Apple TV black, lay a Jalapeno on the "Jalapeno" and stick circuitry from a TV remote and some christmas lights inside and it would still be more convincing than what they have now.

Topic: Is ASIC's a SCAM? - page 4. (Read 12694 times)