Is Bakkt really an overrated event? | Bitcointalksearch.org

deisik

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Quote from: eaLiTy on February 11, 2019, 05:40:00 PM

Quote from: Crypto-DesignService on February 01, 2019, 11:20:33 PM

This month, Bakkt implementation will push through or maybe not as what they always do(postpone it) and I see lot of people talked about how it affects the price. Question is will it really make the price soar/higher or this is just an overrated assumption?

I am not sure when they are launching as it keeps on delaying as the dead line reaches and i am not sure when they will be able to launch it, but the initiative is a great one, if they can built a global infrastructure which could connect everybody and if it is a good front end system which can be used by any novice user, then it will be a great success, there are a lot of developments yet to come in this market and hopefully we will see some rapid changes in the next few years

And while we are at it, I have a few questions regarding Bakkt

As I got it, Bakkt can be a game-changer and as such it involves a lot of effort in building the platform (given how much its launch gets postponed). Obviously, the engineers building it should have a thorough understanding of Bitcoin intricacies and technicalities, how it works in general and in particular. But when you are deeply involved in some project, you will inevitably find a lot of shortcomings or even pitfalls, which you would want fixed or removed

So did anyone from the Bakkt development team contact Bitcoin developers regarding adding or changing things in Bitcoin in some way? Somehow you would expect this from the project that big. Or are they contacting in private to keep things in secrecy?

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Crypto-DesignService on February 01, 2019, 11:20:33 PM

This month, Bakkt implementation will push through or maybe not as what they always do(postpone it) and I see lot of people talked about how it affects the price. Question is will it really make the price soar/higher or this is just an overrated assumption?

I am not sure when they are launching as it keeps on delaying as the dead line reaches and i am not sure when they will be able to launch it, but the initiative is a great one, if they can built a global infrastructure which could connect everybody and if it is a good front end system which can be used by any novice user, then it will be a great success, there are a lot of developments yet to come in this market and hopefully we will see some rapid changes in the next few years.

deisik

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 10, 2019, 01:47:53 PM

https://www.ccn.com/nyse-owner-bakkt-is-our-moonshot-bitcoin-bet

The whole thing is still sounding rather woolly by the sounds of that.

“It’s a bit of a moonshot bet and it’s been organized in a manner that is very different than the way ICE typically does businesses.”

“Bakkt has its own offices, its own management team, etc. They’re well along in building out an infrastructure that I think you’ll see launch later this year.”

I'm sure this type of casualness happens all the time. It doesn't usually have a rabid audience giving it more attention than it should

People are desperate for positive news

Though it is not something which you would want to hear from a SEC member (if you were to remain neutral). I don't know about their internal policies which should be followed in such matters but he might well be abusing them. Basically, he expresses his opinion (provided you posted his words verbatim) is such a way as if he were making an assertion like "I assure you Bakkt will be launched this year". Just think how his words will sound if Bakkt isn't launched this year (or any other year)

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https://www.ccn.com/nyse-owner-bakkt-is-our-moonshot-bitcoin-bet

The whole thing is still sounding rather woolly by the sounds of that.

“It’s a bit of a moonshot bet and it’s been organized in a manner that is very different than the way ICE typically does businesses.”

“Bakkt has its own offices, its own management team, etc. They’re well along in building out an infrastructure that I think you’ll see launch later this year.”

I'm sure this type of casualness happens all the time. It doesn't usually have a rabid audience giving it more attention than it should.

deisik

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Quote from: olumyd on February 10, 2019, 04:00:12 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2019, 07:56:22 PM

I think I can explain that thing to you in simple words

As it is definitely not about the technological barrier (whatever you might mean by this) or anything similar. The Wall Street types are wolves and sharks, they won't engage in an activity (read, speculation) unless they will the ones earning profits. But Bitcoin is not their element as there are no futures and options, and all other derivative financial instruments which would them to use their sophisticated techniques to strip the regular trading crowd off of its money

Well, technically, there are Bitcoin futures, but I rather mean the market here like gold or crude oil (in terms of trading volume and money circulating). In simple terms, they don't want to be bagholders, and that's a rational decision on their part to stay away from Bitcoin for the time being. They will enter the market after it gets filled with money

I disagree on the part where you implied that Bitcoin trading as well as all the introduced asset class derivatives market don't require sophisticated techniques to maneuver the pockets of the masses

I don't see where your disagreement applies to my post

Actually, I was telling essentially the same but looked at from another angle. And I specifically mentioned that Bitcoin is not their element where they could easily apply their sophisticated techniques to steal money from common people. That in no case should be understood in the way you (mis)interpreted my words. It is the nature of cryptocurrencies (where you can simply hold coins and wait out hardships) which makes Wall Street types powerless while their schemes useless. You can't dance on nothing (but you can try)

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Quote from: shoreno on February 06, 2019, 03:24:32 AM

Quote from: ophyrim on February 05, 2019, 09:44:06 AM

Bakkt is very important. Of course, the price will not go to the moon.

The price did go to the moon before and guess what ?there is no bakkt that time . its just a pure demand from the public. bakkt is not really important because it is not the only way to help the price recover although it can somehow help a little if ever it will got accepted as early as possible .

Maybe Bakkt is not so important in the long run but at the present moment we need some big investment and some big news like Bakkt coming in crypto currency, to be able to pull back this bear trend. This bear market is the longest one in the history of bitcoins and only big investments in bitcoin can break this trend and start the bull market.

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Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2019, 07:56:22 PM

Quote from: exstasie on February 09, 2019, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2019, 10:54:32 PM

It all depends on the demand for Bitcoin, it's as simple as that. If Bakkt, ETF, Fidelity and products like that will allow a ton of investors which have been intimidated by the technological barrier to enter Bitcoin interested in buying, then the pump will be legendary, since Bitcoin is still tiny.

So as soon as all that money that has been on hold to enter comes, ATH will be achieved quickly

That's the eternal question......is there really all this hidden Wall Street demand just waiting for the right regulated security to come along? Are they really intimidated by the technological barrier?

I think I can explain that thing to you in simple words

As it is definitely not about the technological barrier (whatever you might mean by this) or anything similar. The Wall Street types are wolves and sharks, they won't engage in an activity (read, speculation) unless they will the ones earning profits. But Bitcoin is not their element as there are no futures and options, and all other derivative financial instruments which would them to use their sophisticated techniques to strip the regular trading crowd off of its money

Well, technically, there are Bitcoin futures, but I rather mean the market here like gold or crude oil (in terms of trading volume and money circulating). In simple terms, they don't want to be bagholders, and that's a rational decision on their part to stay away from Bitcoin for the time being. They will enter the market after it gets filled with money

I disagree on the part where you implied that Bitcoin trading as well as all the introduced asset class derivatives market don't require sophisticated techniques to maneuver the pockets of the masses.

The truth is that, they don't have the required sophistication just yet (maybe that could be considered a tech barrier for what it's worth) - crypto's high and unpredictable volatility makes it hard to draw up a working protocol to that end. So, they are simply waiting and studying to know when and how to enter the market. Making the current market more like the traditional market (seen by the the introduction of the so called derivative instruments with the aim of luring institutional investors) is a poor attempt to colonize the system.

What remains to be seen is if this decentralized system can truly be colonized. Yes, we have see the possibility of centralizing the decentralized systems built on crypto systems, but colonization is one feat arguably achievable.

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Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2019, 10:54:32 PM

It all depends on the demand for Bitcoin, it's as simple as that. If Bakkt, ETF, Fidelity and products like that will allow a ton of investors which have been intimidated by the technological barrier to enter Bitcoin interested in buying, then the pump will be legendary, since Bitcoin is still tiny.

So as soon as all that money that has been on hold to enter comes, ATH will be achieved quickly:

Hi Cellard, can you share the source of that data. I'd really love to read more on it. As u said earlier, these instruments may be necessary for the next term ATH, but we talking about stability, and long term sustainability. I look at the conventional traditional market, it's awful. It's design is for the top 1% of the 1%, regular guys - like those enriched by the crypto revolution wouldn't survive there. So in the end we need more sustained growth plans and not 'just' derivative instruments.

Ps: couldn't see the referenced double green dots in the image.

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Quote from: exstasie on February 09, 2019, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2019, 10:54:32 PM

It all depends on the demand for Bitcoin, it's as simple as that. If Bakkt, ETF, Fidelity and products like that will allow a ton of investors which have been intimidated by the technological barrier to enter Bitcoin interested in buying, then the pump will be legendary, since Bitcoin is still tiny.

So as soon as all that money that has been on hold to enter comes, ATH will be achieved quickly

That's the eternal question......is there really all this hidden Wall Street demand just waiting for the right regulated security to come along? Are they really intimidated by the technological barrier?

I think I can explain that thing to you in simple words

As it is definitely not about the technological barrier (whatever you might mean by this) or anything similar. The Wall Street types are wolves and sharks, they won't engage in an activity (read, speculation) unless they will the ones earning profits. But Bitcoin is not their element as there are no futures and options, and all other derivative financial instruments which would allow them to use their sophisticated techniques to strip the regular trading crowd off of its money

Well, technically, there are Bitcoin futures, but I rather mean the market here like gold or crude oil (in terms of trading volume and money circulating). In simple terms, they don't want to be bagholders, and that's a rational decision on their part to stay away from Bitcoin for the time being. They will enter the market after it gets filled with money

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Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2019, 10:54:32 PM

It all depends on the demand for Bitcoin, it's as simple as that. If Bakkt, ETF, Fidelity and products like that will allow a ton of investors which have been intimidated by the technological barrier to enter Bitcoin interested in buying, then the pump will be legendary, since Bitcoin is still tiny.

So as soon as all that money that has been on hold to enter comes, ATH will be achieved quickly

That's the eternal question......is there really all this hidden Wall Street demand just waiting for the right regulated security to come along? Are they really intimidated by the technological barrier?

I suspect it's all a bit more organic than that. Bitcoin isn't exactly proven as a reliable asset that can stand alongside gold, physical assets like real estate, etc. It's been around ten years, it's very experimental, serious bugs are still emerging. In due time, we could see Bitcoin exposure in pension funds and the like, but I wouldn't put all the emphasis on Bakkt or any instrument like that. It still may take a lot more time for the type of institutional demand you're suggesting to really develop.

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Bakkt will be great.If you want news about Bakkt development you can follow his twitter https://twitter.com/Bakkt

Problem is shutdown and CFTC has not any deadline for Bakkt approval
Bakkt will be global from day one will support big merchants
It will be possible to pay with bitcoin without any fee
But Bakkt has much more to offer
Below best article what i have found about what Bakkt really will be

http://fortune.com/2019/01/14/bakkt-acquisition-consumer-payments/

cellard

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It all depends on the demand for Bitcoin, it's as simple as that. If Bakkt, ETF, Fidelity and products like that will allow a ton of investors which have been intimidated by the technological barrier to enter Bitcoin interested in buying, then the pump will be legendary, since Bitcoin is still tiny.

So as soon as all that money that has been on hold to enter comes, ATH will be achieved quickly:

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I am not quite sure whether the current rise in Bitcoin price is related to the fact that Bakkt will be launched in March, but if this happen and the launch will not be transferred again for any reason, then this should lead to a significant increase in Bitcoin price possibly up to level 5000.

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Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2019, 11:53:27 AM

Quote from: olumyd on February 07, 2019, 09:43:56 AM

Quote from: Crypto-DesignService on February 01, 2019, 11:20:33 PM

This month, Bakkt implementation will push through or maybe not as what they always do(postpone it) and I see lot of people talked about how it affects the price. Question is will it really make the price soar/higher or this is just an overrated assumption?

Problem is we keep depending on alternative financial instruments to help bitcoin and crypto in general gain traction, and I believe that that wasn't the original design for cryptocurrencies (or bitcoin in particular). We may have to focus on more mainstream payment channels and less on derivatives

But how can it possibly be any other way? It is definitely not like Bitcoin was created yesterday and overnight it is a universally accepted world reserve currency (or "digital gold"). Things simply don't work that way. It is more like one step forward, two steps back (well, maybe, not back but rather sideways, but you get the point). We have to rely on legacy systems, no matter what Bitcoin maximalists or cultists may think or claim to the contrary. This is a given

Even fiat money had been backed up by hard assets (gold in most cases) for centuries

Truth is global adoption has gained the necessary traction for the first phase of digital disruption. But I kinda agree with what CZ says in regards to ETFs, with or without crypto is still golden. And I can say the same thing about other crypto.

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Quote from: shoreno on February 06, 2019, 03:24:32 AM

Quote from: ophyrim on February 05, 2019, 09:44:06 AM

Bakkt is very important. Of course, the price will not go to the moon.

The price did go to the moon before and guess what ?there is no bakkt that time . its just a pure demand from the public. bakkt is not really important because it is not the only way to help the price recover although it can somehow help a little if ever it will got accepted as early as possible .

I was so excited before if there is bakkt that would change the situation in the market but as long as i've waited too long the longer i feel that bakkt has no need for the changes in the situation of the market. I am not waiting for the ETF and Bakkt anymore since the situation of the market would be the same anyway.

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Quote from: exstasie on February 07, 2019, 06:36:48 PM

Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2019, 11:53:27 AM

Quote from: exstasie on February 06, 2019, 04:17:29 AM

This means institutions using non-collateralized leverage (like shorting gold with USD collateral). It also means central counterparties using omnibus accounts and lending each unit of "backed" assets to multiple parties. That artificially increases circulating supply

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Care to explain?

You can short the COMEX Gold market without actually needing to borrow gold and sell it. This means USD and other collateral can be used to push prices down. If COMEX actually leads the spot market due to its superior liquidity, it's a theoretical avenue for manipulating price downward

Well, that was kinda obvious to me

Somehow I thought something more intricate and complicated than that. Moreover, I don't think that gold is very interesting in this regard (I mean when assessing the potential of price manipulation). If we take a look at the market for crude oil, for example, we will see that it is by far more susceptible to manipulation and on entirely different levels at that (e.g. via cartel agreements between major oil producers like SA, other OPEC countries, Russia, etc)

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Quote from: DeathAngel on February 07, 2019, 11:22:56 AM

Quote from: 2chase on February 07, 2019, 08:25:17 AM

Undoubtedly - if the Bakkt platform will be opened and running without any restrictions that could interfere with its work on the part of SEC, this can very positively affect the entire cryptocurrency market. But I think that the SEC can still announce a number of conditions that will limit the capabilities of this platform.

I haven’t seen an update for ages now, when is BAKKT due to open its doors, so to speak.

The US government shutdown the longest in its history of that coubtry had really affected the launching of bakkt and causes a major delay and setback I hope this issue is resolved as soon as possible and bring things back to normal as expectations for a bullish runs of Cryptos this year is high and not to dash the hope of Cryptos enthusiasts.

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Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2019, 11:53:27 AM

Quote from: exstasie on February 06, 2019, 04:17:29 AM

This means institutions using non-collateralized leverage (like shorting gold with USD collateral). It also means central counterparties using omnibus accounts and lending each unit of "backed" assets to multiple parties. That artificially increases circulating supply

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Care to explain?

You can short the COMEX Gold market without actually needing to borrow gold and sell it. This means USD and other collateral can be used to push prices down. If COMEX actually leads the spot market due to its superior liquidity, it's a theoretical avenue for manipulating price downward.

On omnibus accounts and related issues: https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/allen-bishop-crespigny-fearey-long.pdf

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Quote from: olumyd on February 07, 2019, 09:43:56 AM

Quote from: Crypto-DesignService on February 01, 2019, 11:20:33 PM

This month, Bakkt implementation will push through or maybe not as what they always do(postpone it) and I see lot of people talked about how it affects the price. Question is will it really make the price soar/higher or this is just an overrated assumption?

Problem is we keep depending on alternative financial instruments to help bitcoin and crypto in general gain traction, and I believe that that wasn't the original design for cryptocurrencies (or bitcoin in particular). We may have to focus on more mainstream payment channels and less on derivatives

But how can it possibly be any other way? It is definitely not like Bitcoin was created yesterday and overnight it is a universally accepted world reserve currency (or "digital gold"). Things simply don't work that way. It is more like one step forward, two steps back (well, maybe, not back but rather sideways, but you get the point). We have to rely on legacy systems, no matter what Bitcoin maximalists or cultists may think or claim to the contrary. This is a given

Even fiat money had been backed up by hard assets (gold in most cases) for centuries

Quote from: exstasie on February 06, 2019, 04:17:29 AM

This means institutions using non-collateralized leverage (like shorting gold with USD collateral). It also means central counterparties using omnibus accounts and lending each unit of "backed" assets to multiple parties. That artificially increases circulating supply

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Care to explain?

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Quote from: 2chase on February 07, 2019, 08:25:17 AM

Undoubtedly - if the Bakkt platform will be opened and running without any restrictions that could interfere with its work on the part of SEC, this can very positively affect the entire cryptocurrency market. But I think that the SEC can still announce a number of conditions that will limit the capabilities of this platform.

I haven’t seen an update for ages now, when is BAKKT due to open its doors, so to speak.

Topic: Is Bakkt really an overrated event? (Read 683 times)