I've just bought a KnC KnCMiner Bitcoin Miner ASIC Jupiter so feeling pretty bullish about Bitcoin right now.
So now we know your vested interests and why you were not being objective.
That is what I assumed.
Topic: Is Bitcoin a Pyramid or Ponzi scheme & what are the ramifications? - page 7. (Read 10974 times)
November 21, 2013, 03:08:23 PM
So now we know your vested interests and why you were not being objective.
That is what I assumed.
November 21, 2013, 02:56:16 PM
The expectation is that it will grow a lot.
November 21, 2013, 02:28:05 PM
The price is not related to the present value of bitcoin. Its related to the assumption that at some future date, adoption will be enough that the price is justified by scarcity.
Same way as i see it, basicly. No different than shares in e.g. Twitter, fueled by hope for growth. But the transaction amount *has* to grow a *lot* to sustain long term surviveability.Possible? Sure, Paypal was already moving $315M worth of transactions per day in 2011.
November 21, 2013, 01:47:24 PM
If we agree with this, we can ask ourselves if Bitcoin falls in one of those categories :
1. Ponzi scheme
2. Pyramid scheme
3. Economic bubble
1. Ponzi scheme
2. Pyramid scheme
3. Economic bubble
I say 3. For the following reason:
Bitcoin is not generating enough revenue as a service. The bitcoin network is basicly a transaction service and bitcoins themselves transaction tokens.
Currently most of the income for miners is generated via block rewards and not via transaction fees.
I would feel far more comfortable if the bitcoins were still valued at $10 and 1.5k BTC paid out to miners for transaction fees. While that would mean basicly the same income for a miner it would mean bitcoin were actually damn usefull as a transaction service. On the other hand that would mean shifting like 750k worth of bitcoins per block assuming a 0.2% transaction fee, or at $10, some $7.5M worth of transactions per block (or $45M+ per hour, $1B per day or $30B per month).
Yeah, thats a lot, but basicly that has to be the current goal to sustain the network since that would generate about the same mining income in fiat currency as is currently achieved via block rewards.
Feel free to recalculate with different numbers for e.g. transaction fees, but since block rewards arent given out indefinately the transition to income via transaction fees has to happen sometime.
The price is not related to the present value of bitcoin. Its related to the assumption that at some future date, adoption will be enough that the price is justified by scarcity. Even if the only use of Bitcoin is for illegal drugs, that market is huge and won't go away and buying online is the safest and easiest way to do it. That market alone will push the Bitcoin value significantly higher.
I've just bought a KnC KnCMiner Bitcoin Miner ASIC Jupiter so feeling pretty bullish about Bitcoin right now.
November 21, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
If we agree with this, we can ask ourselves if Bitcoin falls in one of those categories :
1. Ponzi scheme
2. Pyramid scheme
3. Economic bubble
1. Ponzi scheme
2. Pyramid scheme
3. Economic bubble
I say 3. For the following reason:
Bitcoin is not generating enough revenue as a service. The bitcoin network is basicly a transaction service and bitcoins themselves transaction tokens.
Currently most of the income for miners is generated via block rewards and not via transaction fees.
I would feel far more comfortable if the bitcoins were still valued at $10 and 1.5k BTC paid out to miners for transaction fees. While that would mean basicly the same income for a miner it would mean bitcoin were actually damn usefull as a transaction service. On the other hand that would mean shifting like 750k worth of bitcoins per block assuming a 0.2% transaction fee, or at $10, some $7.5M worth of transactions per block (or $45M+ per hour, $1B per day or $30B per month).
Yeah, thats a lot, but basicly that has to be the current goal to sustain the network since that would generate about the same mining income in fiat currency as is currently achieved via block rewards.
Feel free to recalculate with different numbers for e.g. transaction fees, but since block rewards arent given out indefinately the transition to income via transaction fees has to happen sometime.
November 21, 2013, 01:08:15 PM
Can people please, please stop encouraging this guy and feeding his need to muddy the forum. It's not intelligent, it's not insightful, it's dribble, babble, nonsense.
Fair point.
I'm out. Anonymint is on my ignore list.
He still takes up a ton of space even on my ignore list. He sounds like a friend of mine when he's off his meds.
November 21, 2013, 11:44:47 AM
Can people please, please stop encouraging this guy and feeding his need to muddy the forum. It's not intelligent, it's not insightful, it's dribble, babble, nonsense.
Fair point.
I'm out. Anonymint is on my ignore list.
Socialists must stick together and copy each other like mindless drones for alone and independent they are weak and incapable.
November 21, 2013, 11:40:34 AM
Can people please, please stop encouraging this guy and feeding his need to muddy the forum. It's not intelligent, it's not insightful, it's dribble, babble, nonsense.
Fair point.
I'm out. Anonymint is on my ignore list.
November 21, 2013, 11:39:31 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
Of course you are not putting women down. Why should they trouble their pretty little heads with such nonsense as Bitcoin when they could be working on a production line sewing clothes for us real men?
Sorry if it makes you angry but women are not capable of the same achievements as men. Period. They prefer jobs that are planned out, very few can burn creative and strategic roads as well as men can. Some can. The CEO of Yahoo comes to mind as well as Barbara Liskov for the Liskov Substitution Principle, which is fundamental to all computer languages.
I am not proposing women sew all day in sweat shops, we can make robots for that now I hope.
I'd rather see her doing what ever she is happy doing, without you bastards (and your mass media mind programming) trying to tell her she has to be a man. Let her choose for herself.
Well now we know how you see women I can't wait to hear your views on Jews and Blacks.
Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average IQ than even Germans. Blacks have the lowest average IQ. There are many smart blacks and many dumb Jews.
Other than that I couldn't say much except to know each as a person.
I suppose I could describe different physical traits of blacks.
November 21, 2013, 11:37:52 AM
Can people please, please stop encouraging this guy and feeding his need to muddy the forum. It's not intelligent, it's not insightful, it's dribble, babble, nonsense.
November 21, 2013, 11:32:16 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
Of course you are not putting women down. Why should they trouble their pretty little heads with such nonsense as Bitcoin when they could be working on a production line sewing clothes for us real men?
Sorry if it makes you angry but women are not capable of the same achievements as men. Period. They prefer jobs that are planned out, very few can burn creative and strategic roads as well as men can. Some can. The CEO of Yahoo comes to mind as well as Barbara Liskov for the Liskov Substitution Principle, which is fundamental to all computer languages.
I am not proposing women sew all day in sweat shops, we can make robots for that now I hope.
I'd rather see her doing what ever she is happy doing, without you bastards (and your mass media mind programming) trying to tell her she has to be a man. Let her choose for herself.
Well now we know how you see women I can't wait to hear your views on Jews and Blacks.
November 21, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
Of course you are not putting women down. Why should they trouble their pretty little heads with such nonsense as Bitcoin when they could be working on a production line sewing clothes for us real men?
Sorry if it makes you angry but women are not capable of the same achievements as men. Period. They prefer jobs that are planned out, very few can burn creative and strategic roads as well as men can. Some can. The CEO of Yahoo comes to mind as well as Barbara Liskov for the Liskov Substitution Principle, which is fundamental to all computer languages.
I am not proposing women sew all day in sweat shops, we can make robots for that now I hope.
I'd rather see her doing what ever she is happy doing, without you bastards (and your mass media mind programming) trying to tell her she has to be a man. Let her choose for herself.
November 21, 2013, 11:26:45 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
We push women in the west to be like men. And push men to be like women. This messes up the evolutionary strategy of women, which is hypergamy.
Men have a different strategy which is "I will have sex with anything".
here is a reference on this where I learned a lot:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3000
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4934
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
We push women in the west to be like men. And push men to be like women. This messes up the evolutionary strategy of women, which is hypergamy.
Men have a different strategy which is "I will have sex with anything".
here is a reference on this where I learned a lot:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3000
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4934
November 21, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
Of course you are not putting women down. Why should they trouble their pretty little heads with such nonsense as Bitcoin when they could be working on a production line sewing clothes for us real men?
November 21, 2013, 11:22:12 AM
...snip...
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
Not exactly. I am just saying that men will turn real nasty when they don't have money for that is their entire identity these days. They don't get women without it also.
I was using the irrationality of women as an example of how men will behave when they are really pissed off. Women tend to get pissed off about daily things such as when you don't give them some of your time. Men tend to get pissed off about dick strategy things. Being poor is going to be very hard on western men. They are not used to it.
I am used to it. I lived in Nipa hut and ate only rice and bananas when I wrote coolpage.com for million users. No problem for me. I can code any where.
You aren't helping yourself here. Really, not helping yourself at all.
Women are rational within their home-community building goals. But their priorities seem quite irrational to a man at times, because our priorities are more competitive.
However, I probably don't speak for westerners any more, as men have become women there in some cases. We joke about that in the developing world where men are still men.
The women are happier here, because we let them be women. Not like all the birth control, abortion, equal crap in the west.
Sorry I am not a socialist. We will not agree.
If the belief that women are as capable of rational behaviour as men is your definition of socialism, you have every reason to apologise for not being a socialist.
We completely disagree.
Women are women. And men are men.
Women are rational yes, but not strategically rational. They base their decisions more on emotions of the small group centered around home and family which is very rational in terms of their evolutionary strategy.
If you deny this, you deny nature. Which most westerners do now deny nature. But the payback is coming 2016ish. Western civilization will collapse.
Oh, Western society will collapse in 2016. Since you are telling the future Mr. Nature, tell me something useful; what will the winning UK Lottery Number be tonight?
November 21, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
Calling bitcoin a ponzi is soooo 2010. 
November 21, 2013, 11:20:10 AM
Actually my closest confidant on all matters I write about here is a very very rational and high IQ female. So I should qualify my statement by saying not all females. But my confidant is exceptionally rare.
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
We push women in the west to be like men. And push men to be like women. This messes up the evolutionary strategy of women, which is hypergamy.
Men have a different strategy which is "I will have sex with anything".
here is a reference on this where I learned a lot:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3000
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4934
I am not putting down women. I love seeing them happy doing what feels most natural to them. And those like my confidant who are capable of strategic thought with me, wow I am grateful to God for such diversity.
What I resent is this feminism and socialism that tells us everything is fair. Bullshit. Everything is a competition. Even women are competing for what they want, it just so happens their priorities are more in the home+locale realm usually, but not all of course.
We push women in the west to be like men. And push men to be like women. This messes up the evolutionary strategy of women, which is hypergamy.
Men have a different strategy which is "I will have sex with anything".
here is a reference on this where I learned a lot:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3000
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4934
November 21, 2013, 11:03:05 AM
...snip...
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
Not exactly. I am just saying that men will turn real nasty when they don't have money for that is their entire identity these days. They don't get women without it also.
I was using the irrationality of women as an example of how men will behave when they are really pissed off. Women tend to get pissed off about daily things such as when you don't give them some of your time. Men tend to get pissed off about dick strategy things. Being poor is going to be very hard on western men. They are not used to it.
I am used to it. I lived in Nipa hut and ate only rice and bananas when I wrote coolpage.com for million users. No problem for me. I can code any where.
You aren't helping yourself here. Really, not helping yourself at all.
Women are rational within their home-community building goals. But their priorities seem quite irrational to a man at times, because our priorities are more competitive.
However, I probably don't speak for westerners any more, as men have become women there in some cases. We joke about that in the developing world where men are still men.
The women are happier here, because we let them be women. Not like all the birth control, abortion, equal crap in the west.
Sorry I am not a socialist. We will not agree.
If the belief that women are as capable of rational behaviour as men is your definition of socialism, you have every reason to apologise for not being a socialist.
We completely disagree.
Women are women. And men are men.
Women are rational yes, but not strategically rational. They base their decisions more on emotions of the small group centered around home and family which is very rational in terms of their evolutionary strategy.
If you deny this, you deny nature. Which most westerners do now deny nature. But the payback is coming 2016ish. Western civilization will collapse.
November 21, 2013, 11:00:16 AM
...snip...
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
Not exactly. I am just saying that men will turn real nasty when they don't have money for that is their entire identity these days. They don't get women without it also.
I was using the irrationality of women as an example of how men will behave when they are really pissed off. Women tend to get pissed off about daily things such as when you don't give them some of your time. Men tend to get pissed off about dick strategy things. Being poor is going to be very hard on western men. They are not used to it.
I am used to it. I lived in Nipa hut and ate only rice and bananas when I wrote coolpage.com for million users. No problem for me. I can code any where.
You aren't helping yourself here. Really, not helping yourself at all.
Women are rational within their home-community building goals. But their priorities seem quite irrational to a man at times, because our priorities are more competitive.
However, I probably don't speak for westerners any more, as men have become women there in some cases. We joke about that in the developing world where men are still men.
The women are happier here, because we let them be women. Not like all the birth control, abortion, equal crap in the west.
Sorry I am not a socialist. We will not agree.
If the belief that women are as capable of rational behaviour as men is your definition of socialism, you have every reason to apologise for not being a socialist.
November 21, 2013, 10:51:17 AM
...snip...
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
The notion that women are irrational all the time while men are only "like that" over money. Is that your belief?
Not exactly. I am just saying that men will turn real nasty when they don't have money for that is their entire identity these days. They don't get women without it also.
I was using the irrationality of women as an example of how men will behave when they are really pissed off. Women tend to get pissed off about daily things such as when you don't give them some of your time. Men tend to get pissed off about dick strategy things. Being poor is going to be very hard on western men. They are not used to it.
I am used to it. I lived in Nipa hut and ate only rice and bananas when I wrote coolpage.com for million users. No problem for me. I can code any where.
You aren't helping yourself here. Really, not helping yourself at all.
Women are rational within their home-community building goals. But their priorities seem quite irrational to a man at times, because our priorities are more competitive.
However, I probably don't speak for westerners any more, as men have become women there in some cases. We joke about that in the developing world where men are still men.
The women are happier here, because we let them be women. Not like all the birth control, abortion, equal crap in the west.
Sorry I am not a socialist. We will not agree.
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