Is Bitcoin a scam: The long debated argument discussion by Bloomberg - Quicktake - page 3.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 23, 2021, 08:41:24 AM

What happens when the last bitcoin is mined. The miners are used when transactions on the blockchain are put in and it completes when they are confirmed. But once the last amount is done (some have said as soon as 2037) what happens then?

The block reward will not drop to 0 until around 2140, but we will have mined 99.9% of all bitcoin by 2044, at which point the block reward will have fallen to less than 0.1 BTC from its current 6.25 BTC.

What happens is that over time, the fee being paid for transactions contributes more to the total mining reward and the block reward contributes less. The most recent block mined at time of writing, block 675,996, has a total mining reward of 6.98 BTC, of which 6.25 BTC is the block reward and 0.73 BTC is from fees.

rdbase

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Someone just bought at the dip with this tweet just released.

Quote from: shahzadafzal on March 23, 2021, 01:58:50 PM

“Someone just transferred 12,000 #bitcoin off of Coinbase, that's over half a billion dollars. They bought the dip.”
https://twitter.com/documentingbtc/status/1374356761000431620?s=21
Elon is that you?

I don't think it was mr.musk as that would be just to obvious. Cheesy

Transaction id: https://mempool.space/tx/98af142954ccc235516594fc0d8aa5d67516f1bfec312271ba599f89408b850b

Mugtaiya

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Quote from: Lucius on March 23, 2021, 05:54:45 AM

Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 22, 2021, 10:53:45 AM

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.

I'm only referring to the video you can see if you visit the link from the OP, because it mentions only those two people as some of the critics or skeptics - and we all know that Jamie Dimon changed his mind a long time ago, and that JPM is today a bank that every week gives very positive opinions when it comes to BTC.

At the moment, banks are just trying to slow down the adaptation until they are ready to jump on the BTC train and profit from it. It is only important to them that they earn as much as possible, and it is less important whether they launder money for drug cartels or take fees for crypto exchange/custody.

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 04:33:18 PM

I had the foresight to the question coming up with this source for my evidence on the matter:
Mining in the Arctic (Norilsk) using gases
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372955971367108610

Journalists and their research work, we had this topic on the forum almost 2 months ago. It would actually be more correct for Quicktake to become Slowtake Wink

Bitcoin in Arctic Circle - The northernmost mining farm in the world!

Fair enough.
But this topic had got me thinking.
What happens when the last bitcoin is mined. The miners are used when transactions on the blockchain are put in and it completes when they are confirmed. But once the last amount is done (some have said as soon as 2037) what happens then? No more mining means no more transactions being confirmed?

Quote from: davis196 on March 23, 2021, 07:23:37 AM

There's no need for me to watch this video.
I guess that the question "Is Bitcoin a scam?" is rhetorical.The FUDsters will keep asking this question until the end.
I can assume that this is some BS combined with a bit of FUD.Even the comments under the tweet are BS and FUD.

Quote

Love how everyone becomes so philosophical whenever bitcoin dumps.

Just stfu and buy the dip.

This is the only good comment under the tweet.Just stop thinking and buy the dip. Grin

Yes. The term BTFD is the word to use against these FUDsters.

buwaytress

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It's only as much a scam as the current financial/banking system. I mean, I get told I have digits in my bank account, and that can magically move almost anywhere I want it to, with the blessings of my banks and if everything goes right.

Visa not being a settlement system is also really important point but doesn't mean anything to the average user. And once we all get on LN (or similar) and accept it as settlement, then it's no point to even compare =)

davis196

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There's no need for me to watch this video.
I guess that the question "Is Bitcoin a scam?" is rhetorical.The FUDsters will keep asking this question until the end.
I can assume that this is some BS combined with a bit of FUD.Even the comments under the tweet are BS and FUD.

Quote

Love how everyone becomes so philosophical whenever bitcoin dumps.

Just stfu and buy the dip.

This is the only good comment under the tweet.Just stop thinking and buy the dip. Grin

Innerpumper

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Electricity is one of the scattered problems when it comes to mining bitcoin today. I know that, but. See the price of bitcoin now. If the upper class continues to support bitcoin through $1m/btc will power companies be harmed? I think it's going to be better. It does not make sense that bitcoin was created and then abandoned for less obvious reasons. But it's been almost 10 years since bitcoin went without any major problems just a few rumors from people who still don't trust bitcoin.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on March 22, 2021, 10:52:03 AM

I mean, he even gets Satoshi's name wrong at the 1 minute mark, so that should give you a good indication of just how much thought and research went in to producing this awful video.
At 2 minutes they say that the Whitepaper states there would be a cap on supply. This is completely false. The Whitepaper does no such thing.

Some things I obviously missed, but all you noticed is just proof that these so-called journalists know a lot less than the average user of this forum - you're going to talk about Bitcoin, and you can't even say the name of the person who invented it properly.

Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 22, 2021, 10:53:45 AM

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.

I'm only referring to the video you can see if you visit the link from the OP, because it mentions only those two people as some of the critics or skeptics - and we all know that Jamie Dimon changed his mind a long time ago, and that JPM is today a bank that every week gives very positive opinions when it comes to BTC.

At the moment, banks are just trying to slow down the adaptation until they are ready to jump on the BTC train and profit from it. It is only important to them that they earn as much as possible, and it is less important whether they launder money for drug cartels or take fees for crypto exchange/custody.

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 04:33:18 PM

I had the foresight to the question coming up with this source for my evidence on the matter:
Mining in the Arctic (Norilsk) using gases
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372955971367108610

Journalists and their research work, we had this topic on the forum almost 2 months ago. It would actually be more correct for Quicktake to become Slowtake Wink

Bitcoin in Arctic Circle - The northernmost mining farm in the world!

rdbase

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Quote from: cr1776 on March 22, 2021, 04:50:22 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on March 22, 2021, 11:24:35 AM

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Final settlement means of the payment can't be reversed. Credit cards can be reversed for 3-6 months. I didn't write the tweet either but that is almost assuredly what they meant.
Now, 3-6 months is a really, really slow payment system. How can someone buy coffee with it?

Okay, thanks for clearing that up for us then.
Also Visa has a partnership with crypto.com just last week so they are not looking to avoid cryptocurrency use like the banks have been doing all these years in the past, but embracing it. Wink

Quote from: LFC_Bitcoin on March 22, 2021, 03:39:53 PM

https://twitter.com/adamegressy/status/1374088034526883847?s=21

HAVE FUN STAYING POOR!
#HFSP

Solar and crypto mentioned in the same tweet.
Not so scare as one might think wouldn't you say? Embarrassed

Quote from: wxa7115 on March 22, 2021, 05:04:27 PM

Quote from: shahzadafzal on March 22, 2021, 04:45:30 PM

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1373890850493591552?s=21

“Watch what they do not what they say” they say, with that in mind I cannot help to think that despite all the complaining people love to be poor as they are not buying bitcoin, the best way to stop being poor that has appeared during the last century.

Thought I heard those very same words before. Cheesy

pixie85

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Who's there to say what's a waste and what is not?

Like when I see someone burning rubber in a car I feel like it's a waste of good tires but for that driver it's fun. It's the same fun someone else pays for when they launch fireworks. It's resources being wasted and air being polluted but someone paid to have some fun this way and someone else was paid to produce them.

If I want to spend my money on mining bitcoin it's my money and my choice. For them it may be a waste but when I see them fueling a V12 car that burns 10 times more than my car to travel the same distance I feel like they're wasting money and resources.

cr1776

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Quote from: Saint-loup on March 22, 2021, 11:24:35 AM

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Final settlement means of the payment can't be reversed. Credit cards can be reversed for 3-6 months. I didn't write the tweet either but that is almost assuredly what they meant.

Now, 3-6 months is a really, really slow payment system. How can someone buy coffee with it?

cr1776

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Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 22, 2021, 10:53:45 AM

Quote from: Lucius on March 22, 2021, 10:40:07 AM

I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump Roll Eyes

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.
Yet big banking corporations are looking towards diversifying their own assets into bitcoin namely J.P Morgan and Goldman sachs
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/bitcoin-banks-closer-accepting-cryptocurrency-asset-class.html

Even heard a while ago a germany bank has started accepting bitcoin deposits and I think there is one in sweden or somewhere else in europe who has recently started taking in bitcoin as if it were their own local currency.

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.
Quite outlandish statement from the ones who produced this video while it is a known globally accepted currency already.

I think it is more likely that the bigger skeptics are the entrenched governmental so-called elites. They know that bitcoin will undermine their ability to skim a percentage every year off of everyone's fiat, seemingly below the radar. So I think the banks are one level removed from the true people who are afraid. People are catching on that governments are not there for their benefit. The governments are there to benefit the people who are running them so they can control everyone else. They do it by trying to divide people by immutable, irrelevant characteristics such as skin color so that people don't notice the evil that the so-called elite is foisting upon them.

rdbase

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Quote from: Saint-loup on March 22, 2021, 11:24:35 AM

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?

Why it would be odd while it's true? Huh

The time frame is the same. In one second or in one year the Bitcoin network consume more electricity than Argentina.

Quote

Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.
[...]
The online tool has ranked Bitcoin’s electricity consumption above Argentina (121 TWh), the Netherlands (108.8 TWh) and the United Arab Emirates (113.20 TWh) - and it is gradually creeping up on Norway (122.20 TWh).
The energy it uses could power all kettles used in the UK for 27 years, it said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952
The Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index : https://cbeci.org

I didn't write the comment to that tweet so I am not exactly sure about the settlement part of it.
But I would imagine they mean the payee purchases something using their visa card then they actually owe the credit card company 30 days after the purchase date for this amount, so they actually are on the hook while bitcoin you are paying with something that you already own. So it is settled once it fully confirms on the blockchain.
Atleast this is how I seen it with just a glance and not overthinking it too much after reading it.

Along with the electricity debate. There are bitcoin farms which use renewable resources such as wind farms and solar power to provide the electricity so to power their entire mining rigs.
I had the foresight to the question coming up with this source for my evidence on the matter:

Mining in the Arctic (Norilsk) using gases
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372955971367108610

Bitcluster opening a mining farm

The above should settle any argument about "Is bitcoin mining wasting the world's resources in it's power consumption?" Grin

BrewMaster

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Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

Post your comments on this argument they have put forth against the cryptocurrency that is taking over the world.

as Gandhi said: "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
we shouldn't waste our time on media outlets that have been going through all these phases so far and are now transitioning to fighting. just let them spread their FUD like they always do and we win...

Mugtaiya

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on March 22, 2021, 11:29:38 AM

Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 22, 2021, 10:53:45 AM

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.

It's the same with all the big banks. "Do as I say, not as I do". Publicly, they call bitcoin a scam because they know it threatens the fiat monetary system that they have worked so hard to control. It threatens their ability to suppress the working class, to buy out politicians, to influence elections, to line their own pockets. But they also know bitcoin isn't going anywhere, so while they publicly call it a scam, they work behind the scenes to invest in it so they aren't left behind. While Jamie Dimon goes on television to say "Bitcoin is a fraud and a Ponzi scheme", his own bank is buying bitcoin and recommending to their investors to put a percentage of their holdings in to bitcoin.

Quote from: avikz on March 22, 2021, 10:56:16 AM

For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer!

It reminds me of that quote by Neil deGrasse Tyson - "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it". Dimon and Buffet can call bitcoin a fraud all they like. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use it to send money to friends and family and purchase goods and services without any centralized third parties, without any middlemen, and without any influence from banks or governments. The good thing about bitcoin is that it works whether or not you believe in it.

Well of course they say what they want in public so to keep up appearances. While behind the scenes they are doing whatever it is to quell their own best interests. This is a common human trait, just look at any politician to get a clear view of what I am saying.

Also to the comment about bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of argentina,
You guys do realize the consumption there includes bitcoin mining themselves of the past 5 years.
They run bitmain miners like air conditioners since their electrical bill is like pennies compared to those in the states.
So why wouldnt they want to run 50-100 asic miners in every home if they have such low cost of their own electricity?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Mugtaiya on March 22, 2021, 10:53:45 AM

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.

It's the same with all the big banks. "Do as I say, not as I do". Publicly, they call bitcoin a scam because they know it threatens the fiat monetary system that they have worked so hard to control. It threatens their ability to suppress the working class, to buy out politicians, to influence elections, to line their own pockets. But they also know bitcoin isn't going anywhere, so while they publicly call it a scam, they work behind the scenes to invest in it so they aren't left behind. While Jamie Dimon goes on television to say "Bitcoin is a fraud and a Ponzi scheme", his own bank is buying bitcoin and recommending to their investors to put a percentage of their holdings in to bitcoin.

Quote from: avikz on March 22, 2021, 10:56:16 AM

For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer!

It reminds me of that quote by Neil deGrasse Tyson - "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it". Dimon and Buffet can call bitcoin a fraud all they like. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use it to send money to friends and family and purchase goods and services without any centralized third parties, without any middlemen, and without any influence from banks or governments. The good thing about bitcoin is that it works whether or not you believe in it.

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Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Quote from: rdbase on March 22, 2021, 09:31:39 AM

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?

Why it would be odd while it's true? Huh

The time frame is the same. In one second or in one year the Bitcoin network consume more electricity than Argentina.

Quote

Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.
[...]
The online tool has ranked Bitcoin’s electricity consumption above Argentina (121 TWh), the Netherlands (108.8 TWh) and the United Arab Emirates (113.20 TWh) - and it is gradually creeping up on Norway (122.20 TWh).

The energy it uses could power all kettles used in the UK for 27 years, it said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

The Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index : https://cbeci.org

avikz

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Well we always have two sides of a story, always! For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer! So there you have it! Non-believers like Jemie Dimon or Warren Buffet will always speak against bitcoin and believes like Elon Musk will always speak in support of bitcoin.

That argument will continue and non-believers will always find ways to bring bitcoin's reputation. The bitcoin market initially used to react to such comments and views but it's now long gone! So the argument will continue while the bitcoin will also continue to flourish!

Mugtaiya

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Quote from: Lucius on March 22, 2021, 10:40:07 AM

I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump Roll Eyes

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.
Yet big banking corporations are looking towards diversifying their own assets into bitcoin namely J.P Morgan and Goldman sachs
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/bitcoin-banks-closer-accepting-cryptocurrency-asset-class.html

Even heard a while ago a germany bank has started accepting bitcoin deposits and I think there is one in sweden or somewhere else in europe who has recently started taking in bitcoin as if it were their own local currency.

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.
Quite outlandish statement from the ones who produced this video while it is a known globally accepted currency already.

o_e_l_e_o

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I mean, he even gets Satoshi's name wrong at the 1 minute mark, so that should give you a good indication of just how much thought and research went in to producing this awful video.

At 2 minutes they say that the Whitepaper states there would be a cap on supply. This is completely false. The Whitepaper does no such thing.

To state bitcoin has "failed in its goal of displacing the dollar" is also wrong, for two reasons. First of all, that was never a stated goal of bitcoin. Secondly, fiat money has been around for over a thousand years. Bitcoin has been around for 12. The collapse of fiat isn't going to happen overnight.

The electricity impact I have spoken about extensively on this forum, and is a terrible argument.

He ends by saying that we all might as well just stick to centralized payment processors. Roll Eyes

He has completely failed to understand what bitcoin is trying to achieve, and appears to have taken all his arguments from a cursory 10 minute Google search without doing any research whatsoever in to why they are all wrong.

Lucius

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I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump Roll Eyes

Topic: Is Bitcoin a scam: The long debated argument discussion by Bloomberg - Quicktake - page 3. (Read 894 times)