Topic: Is Bitcoin about to be 51%ed??? - page 4. (Read 5185 times)
Right now it is 48%. Soon Ghash.io will remove more of their own hash power and it will come down to 40%. But when they'll provide all power to deliberately reverse a certain Tx, it'll be almost 70%+. It is now indeed required to find out the real owners of Ghash.io or CEX.io.
51% is totally a problem.
if someone has 51% of hashing power then we have to trust they aren't going to shut bitcoin down one day.
if you want a system where you need to trust someone then it already exists, its called a bank.
if someone has 51% of hashing power then we have to trust they aren't going to shut bitcoin down one day.
if you want a system where you need to trust someone then it already exists, its called a bank.
1) 51% by itself is not a problem. It becomes problem if person who is in control of those 51% does something silly which is highly not in their intrest
2) Fear of 51% attach should not be in "someone massing large amounts of ASIC hardware" or "someone attracting more than 51% of mining power". It's much easier to destroy bitcoin network. All NSA (for example) needs to do is to get to leaders of top 3-4 mining pools (somehow...some dark secrets etc.), and it's game over. As users switch from largest one to smaller pool, nothing change. They are still getting into controlled one. Person / system who would control those 3-4 people (and we all agree it's not hard to control 3-4 individuals) would be running bitcoin network as he wants and would have ability to undermine it so hard that it wouldnt come back up
3) Hardware is not protection of the network. Bitcoin is not strong because of ASIC's, it's strong because of it's protocol. So, if you need to protect software, you dont protect it with hardware, you protect it on software side. Soltions to "pool mining", "51% attack" etc. are out there. Devs just need to implement them inside code.
2) Fear of 51% attach should not be in "someone massing large amounts of ASIC hardware" or "someone attracting more than 51% of mining power". It's much easier to destroy bitcoin network. All NSA (for example) needs to do is to get to leaders of top 3-4 mining pools (somehow...some dark secrets etc.), and it's game over. As users switch from largest one to smaller pool, nothing change. They are still getting into controlled one. Person / system who would control those 3-4 people (and we all agree it's not hard to control 3-4 individuals) would be running bitcoin network as he wants and would have ability to undermine it so hard that it wouldnt come back up
3) Hardware is not protection of the network. Bitcoin is not strong because of ASIC's, it's strong because of it's protocol. So, if you need to protect software, you dont protect it with hardware, you protect it on software side. Soltions to "pool mining", "51% attack" etc. are out there. Devs just need to implement them inside code.
Ah another fear mongering thread. All of the screeching does more damage than the infinitesimally remote chance that someone might destroy their own profitable business in order to hurt bit coin.
Hardware mining is fail. Use NXT.
I'll CONSIDER investigating NXT when the first google result isn't this: http://www.wwe.com/shows/wwenxtUntil then, YOU are the fail, and nobody cares.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I suspect that the typical bitcoin user doesn't worry about a 51% attack all that much. In any case, even if Gigahash gets 51%, unless they aren't legitimate miners and are someone with a vested interest in taking down Bitcoin, which I suspect isn't the case, it's in their own interest to not execute a double spend attack.
It is not a good idea to let them have 51%. They could decide at any time to engage in selfish mining and institute a monopoly.
51% power means they could solve 100% of the blocks by producing the longest chains and shut everyone else out...
IF they chose to do that.
Another thought. A real nice TODO for the next version of cgminer would be a pool hop function based of pool hash %.
So if pool A >= 30% move to pool B, etc...
So if pool A >= 30% move to pool B, etc...
It'll be interesting to watch the price of bitcoins if Gigahash goes over 51%. My guess: it won't change much. I suspect that the typical bitcoin user doesn't worry about a 51% attack all that much. In any case, even if Gigahash gets 51%, unless they aren't legitimate miners and are someone with a vested interest in taking down Bitcoin, which I suspect isn't the case, it's in their own interest to not execute a double spend attack. They have the most mining power and the coins that they're generating will be devalued if they do, because them hitting 51% might not affect the price of bitcoins much. But you can bet them executing a 51% attack would definitely negatively impact the price of bitcoins.
Ultimately, I do agree with others who say that miners in Gigahash would be wise to switch to another pool until they get down to the 30% range. Even if they have no intentions to do a double spend attack on the network, the mere possibility of them doing so might cause a bit of a panic if I'm mistaken and this is something that typical bitcoin users worry about.
Ultimately, I do agree with others who say that miners in Gigahash would be wise to switch to another pool until they get down to the 30% range. Even if they have no intentions to do a double spend attack on the network, the mere possibility of them doing so might cause a bit of a panic if I'm mistaken and this is something that typical bitcoin users worry about.
Even if gigahash was at 75% it doesn't mean Bitcoin has been forked or 51%ed. It just means that they would have that option. I'm certainly not saying this is ideal or good and I personally believe in p2p pools, but there would be no legitimate reason for any pool to 51% Bitcoin unless their goal from day 1 was nefarious.
All that being said, there are some other really nice pools (slush being my recommendation) out there besides gigahash.io, that might be worth a try for some of you to help even things out a bit
All that being said, there are some other really nice pools (slush being my recommendation) out there besides gigahash.io, that might be worth a try for some of you to help even things out a bit
...
Non-expert OROBTC would like to see a Discus Fish, a Slush, a BTC Guild, an Eligius, or others make it easy and profitable to cloudmine for those of us not ready for primetime, but who want in.
Then droves of people like me would sign up!
"AMF" to GHash.IO worries!
What´s say other mining pools?
Make it worth our while, maybe you will get rich(er?)!!!
Non-expert OROBTC would like to see a Discus Fish, a Slush, a BTC Guild, an Eligius, or others make it easy and profitable to cloudmine for those of us not ready for primetime, but who want in.
Then droves of people like me would sign up!
"AMF" to GHash.IO worries!
What´s say other mining pools?
Make it worth our while, maybe you will get rich(er?)!!!
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I think it should be common pratice to leave any pool at 35%.
+1.
or even 33 or 30%.
people should leave Gash... its too big.
Slushies miner here.. but I only have 720 G/hs..
I think it should be common pratice to leave any pool at 35%.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
people should leave Gash... its too big.
Ghash.io did turn off 'some' hashes to lower their network %.
How would you verify that? an attacker keeps their hashing secret until they release their private copy of the chain.
47% 
Someone else like Cloudhashing or another large-scale hosted setup would start getting close enough to ensure that 51% becomes impossible for GHash.io to pull off, in conjunction with, say, some of the smaller mining pools merging to better increase the chances of them getting shares. Things will gradually move towards share or contract-style setups due to economies of scale. A third or fourth pool of a similar size to both would in effect be increased insurance of the chance of 51% ever occurring.
TL;DR, the odds will shrink in the future of a 51% attack occurring through consolidation and competing services.
TL;DR, the odds will shrink in the future of a 51% attack occurring through consolidation and competing services.
Do you really think so? Join the party:
 ___________ | Ghash.io will reach 51% (or more) in the next month Options: Yes | No |
Does anyone KNOW what actual % Ghash owns? Anyone with half a brain knows that if miners see to much % at Ghash, they just point their miners at another pool. I just wish more miners would realize that bigger pools don't mean bigger payouts. MAYBE if you pool hop just right, but in the long run it all averages out.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
This is serious shit going down.
http://newsbtc.com/2014/06/08/bitcoin-community-abuzz-ghash-ios-uncomfortably-high-hashrate/
Ghash.io at 47% hashrate for the last 24 hours.
Currently between 39-42%.
Just knock off one of the other big pools and its FORKING TIME.
http://newsbtc.com/2014/06/08/bitcoin-community-abuzz-ghash-ios-uncomfortably-high-hashrate/
Ghash.io at 47% hashrate for the last 24 hours.
Currently between 39-42%.
Just knock off one of the other big pools and its FORKING TIME.
uh...no.
51% attack isn't a fork.
You guys are so cool.But the risk is there.
We have to "belive" in good on gihash?
I have to trust all my money in "they will never do that"?
doent'l like.
We have to "belive" in good on gihash?
I have to trust all my money in "they will never do that"?
doent'l like.
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