Is bitcoin democratic? - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Portnoy

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Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 09:31:24 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 09:27:28 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:42:24 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:12 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

Not in my bookclub; we get along just fine. And do we need any more example to prove the statement, that it happens in every democracy, false?

How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? Define "democracy" (don't just make up a definition, of course) and then demonstrate that your book club fits this definition (not in a "well, X is kinda like Y" -- that's not an argument I will accept). Of course, be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

Let's see how clear your thinking is.

It is democratic. It is of the people in the bookclub by the people in the bookclub for the people of the bookclub. It adheres to the principle of equality of rights and privileges for all members of the bookclub.

You did not answer any of my questions, thus we do not yet know whether your book club is "democratic" or not.

So, in the interest of actually having a rational conversation, can you respond to the questions I asked? They are, to wit:

1. How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? "It is democratic" is not a response.

2. Define "democracy". You did not do that.

3. Demonstrate that your book club fits this definition

4. Be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

If you're not going to address what is being asked of you to prove your hypotheses, at least do me (and everyone else) the favor of not contributing more noise to the conversation? Thanks.

All of that is answered in my response if you know how to read normal forum conversation...

but here, more formal definitions:

* government of the people by the people for the people.

* a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.

* political or social equality.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question, which I asked first.

"The best social system is one where ____ "

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: hazek on November 26, 2012, 08:54:50 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

"The best social system is one where everyone is given a voice and allowed equal participation."

Yes such a system, which some of us might call a "democracy", does often involve something that might be called "sacrifice" but is perhaps better called "compromise".
Its also called "playing nice" and "getting along with others" ... something most people learned in kindergarten. Wink

What a nice way to describe mob rule. Roll Eyes

And what would you prefer? Every man for himself?

Quote

To answer your question, if one's goal is to live in a society that has the freedom to maximize it's potential the best social system is the one where each participant has the freedom to live, to own and be in absolute control over their body and their property, meaning no involuntary participation or taxation.

And that doesn't go against the principles of democracy given the proper supports such as those constitutions and charters of rights and freedoms I mentioned.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 09:27:28 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:42:24 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:12 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

Not in my bookclub; we get along just fine. And do we need any more example to prove the statement, that it happens in every democracy, false?

How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? Define "democracy" (don't just make up a definition, of course) and then demonstrate that your book club fits this definition (not in a "well, X is kinda like Y" -- that's not an argument I will accept). Of course, be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

Let's see how clear your thinking is.

It is democratic. It is of the people in the bookclub by the people in the bookclub for the people of the bookclub. It adheres to the principle of equality of rights and privileges for all members of the bookclub.

You did not answer any of my questions, thus we do not yet know whether your book club is "democratic" or not.

So, in the interest of actually having a rational conversation, can you respond to the questions I asked? They are, to wit:

1. How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? "It is democratic" is not a response.

2. Define "democracy". You did not do that.

3. Demonstrate that your book club fits this definition

4. Be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

If you're not going to address what is being asked of you to prove your hypotheses, at least do me (and everyone else) the favor of not contributing more noise to the conversation? Thanks.

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:42:56 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:28:27 PM

Note I said "social system" which perhaps can be differentiated from private matters.

Private relationships are social systems too.

Fine... did you also read what I said about constitutions and charters of rights and freedoms?

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:42:24 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:12 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

Not in my bookclub; we get along just fine. And do we need any more example to prove the statement, that it happens in every democracy, false?

How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? Define "democracy" (don't just make up a definition, of course) and then demonstrate that your book club fits this definition (not in a "well, X is kinda like Y" -- that's not an argument I will accept). Of course, be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

Let's see how clear your thinking is.

It is democratic. It is of the people in the bookclub by the people in the bookclub for the people of the bookclub. It adheres to the principle of equality of rights and privileges for all members of the bookclub.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 09:21:48 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:39:23 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:31:18 PM

And we also have an excellent general term called "democracy." Get yourself a dictionary. It will help you with that clear thinking problem you seem to be having. Wink

You first imply that I'm wrong by saying "get a dictionary" and then you imply that I am somehow the victim of "befuddled thinking".

I didn't say you were wrong but that there can be more than one word for any particular concept.

You said more than that, and you know it.

We're waiting for you to defend your ideas.

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:39:23 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:31:18 PM

And we also have an excellent general term called "democracy." Get yourself a dictionary. It will help you with that clear thinking problem you seem to be having. Wink

You first imply that I'm wrong by saying "get a dictionary" and then you imply that I am somehow the victim of "befuddled thinking".

I didn't say you were wrong but that there can be more than one word for any particular concept.

hazek

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

"The best social system is one where everyone is given a voice and allowed equal participation."

Yes such a system, which some of us might call a "democracy", does often involve something that might be called "sacrifice" but is perhaps better called "compromise".
Its also called "playing nice" and "getting along with others" ... something most people learned in kindergarten. Wink

What a nice way to describe mob rule. Roll Eyes

To answer your question, if one's goal is to live in a society that has the freedom to maximize it's potential the best social system is the one where each participant has the freedom to live, to own and be in absolute control over their body and their property, meaning no involuntary participation or taxation.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:28:27 PM

Note I said "social system" which perhaps can be differentiated from private matters.

Private relationships are social systems too.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:12 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

Not in my bookclub; we get along just fine. And do we need any more example to prove the statement, that it happens in every democracy, false?

How exactly is your book club a "democracy"? Define "democracy" (don't just make up a definition, of course) and then demonstrate that your book club fits this definition (not in a "well, X is kinda like Y" -- that's not an argument I will accept). Of course, be prepared to be challenged by common dictionary definitions.

Let's see how clear your thinking is.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:31:18 PM

And we also have an excellent general term called "democracy." Get yourself a dictionary. It will help you with that clear thinking problem you seem to be having. Wink

You first imply that I'm wrong by saying "get a dictionary" and then you imply that I am somehow the victim of "befuddled thinking".

That's a clever manipulative non-argument composed entirely of attacks and discrediting, but it changes nothing: you're still wrong, and you prove it over and over by not being able or willing to advance arguments proving that you're right.

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:20:09 PM

Quote from: grantbdev on November 26, 2012, 07:00:32 PM

I think of "democratic" as an adjective as "by the people, for the people." I think that fits Bitcoin.

And some, like Lincoln, would include, "of the people", and I feel that is a good description of democracy and yes, fits what Bitcoin is about.

We already have a word to describe "by the people, for the people, of the people". The word is called populist. No need to conflate democracy with populism. Clear thinking starts with clear concepts.

And we also have an excellent general term called "democracy." Get yourself a dictionary. It will help you with that clear thinking problem you seem to be having. Wink

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: theymos on November 26, 2012, 07:16:10 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

"The best social system is one where everyone is given a voice and allowed equal participation."

I certainly don't agree with that. There are probably no situations where everone deserves an equal voice. If we're deciding what to do with my property, my voice is the only voice that matters; it's my property.

Note I said "social system" which perhaps can be differentiated from private matters. There is also nothing stopping us from including in a democracy things like constitutions and bills of rights and charters ensuring individual rights etc. etc. Such things can help with the potential "tyranny of the majority" problem.

But lets hear yours, and also Rudd-o, ideas on a better system.

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 26, 2012, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

Not in my bookclub; we get along just fine. And do we need any more example to prove the statement, that it happens in every democracy, false?

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 07:20:09 PM

Quote from: grantbdev on November 26, 2012, 07:00:32 PM

I think of "democratic" as an adjective as "by the people, for the people." I think that fits Bitcoin.

And some, like Lincoln, would include, "of the people", and I feel that is a good description of democracy and yes, fits what Bitcoin is about.

We already have a word to describe "by the people, for the people, of the people". The word is called populist. No need to conflate democracy with populism. Clear thinking starts with clear concepts.

Portnoy

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1000

My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: grantbdev on November 26, 2012, 07:00:32 PM

I think of "democratic" as an adjective as "by the people, for the people." I think that fits Bitcoin.

And some, like Lincoln, would include, "of the people", and I feel that is a good description of democracy and yes, fits what Bitcoin is about.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: theymos on November 26, 2012, 07:16:10 PM

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

"The best social system is one where everyone is given a voice and allowed equal participation."

I certainly don't agree with that. There are probably no situations where everone deserves an equal voice. If we're deciding what to do with my property, my voice is the only voice that matters; it's my property.

It's cool that people want to have a voice and are allowed to speak. It's not cool when they start to aggressively impose their criteria on others. That principle rules out both rape and democracy.

Rudd-O

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

do you think, that when I use the word democracy, I am actually advocating an exclusive clique having special privileges and powers
over everyone else? Seriously?

That's what observably happens in every democracy, is it not? Unless you distort and pervert reality to deny what your eyes can see, I don't see how you could refute that.

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

Quote from: Portnoy on November 26, 2012, 06:55:36 PM

"The best social system is one where everyone is given a voice and allowed equal participation."

I certainly don't agree with that. There are probably no situations where everone deserves an equal voice. If we're deciding what to do with my property, my voice is the only voice that matters; it's my property.

grantbdev

sr. member

Activity: 292

Merit: 250

I think of "democratic" as an adjective as "by the people, for the people." I think that fits Bitcoin.

Topic: Is bitcoin democratic? - page 3. (Read 8769 times)