Let's not forget the long-term value of Bitcoin is 100% determined by is utility. That utility can only grow if it is SPENT!
SPEND your Bitcoins! SPEND your bitcoins for &#$@ sake! But buy at least as much as you spent back back with your fiat.
Doing that insures you maintain your holding AND builds utility so those holding don't turn into nothing later on.
Topic: Is bitcoin doomed to fail because of all the horders? - page 2. (Read 2504 times)
It seems like everyone is in this for the end game. That is the currency being very scarce and worth lots of money, IE. hoarders becoming rich. But if it appreciates so fast and everyone wants to just hold on to it. It isn't very liquid a commodity is it? Those people exchanging gift cards for bit coins etc, turn around and do what? Do they cash in their bitcoins usually for a marginal profit? Seems like hoarding might be artifically inflating the price of the currency. Just looking at the charts it seems 17 dollars is a more practical figure. Thoughts?
Computers fall massively in price every year yet for some crazy unknown reason people still buy computers, why oh why does anyone EVER buy a computer when they know it will be cheaper next year?
Not doomed to fail, but it is a big problem that makes it look like a ponzi. I know it's not!
But in order for Bitcoin to make it as a currency, it must work. Right now, it doesn't work. By "work" I mean, it must flow, move, be used for things other than speculation.
But in order for Bitcoin to make it as a currency, it must work. Right now, it doesn't work. By "work" I mean, it must flow, move, be used for things other than speculation.
Sad.
Bitcoin does flow, and is being used for other things than speculation. For myself, I buy stuff with it all of the time; from cell service airtime to handmade knick-knacks of Etsy to high end candies to hats for my characters on Team Fortress 2. As of this moment, Bitcoinwatch reports that while there have been just over 20K BTC that have changed hands in the past 24 hours there have been nearly 5 and half million BTC sent across the network during that same period. Even discounting double the volume on MtGox from the main network, in order to account for the maximum number of coins that could have been fed into and withdrawn from MtGox during that same time period to service the speculators still leaves us with over 5.4 M BTC in motion. That's just about 270 times the nominal bitcoin volume of the single largest pool of speculators in the bitcoin economy. During the last fast rise and crash in 2011, speculation formed the greater part of the Bitcoin economy; but this is no longer so.
Hold Your Horses There Guys!
Bitcoin is a currency. Why compare it to fiat, which is basically crap? Oh yeah, because the prices of your water and your gas and your milk are in fiat. So sorry about that! Who wants to start a Bitcoin grocery chain? We could provide a steadily increasing exchange rate so people with cash can still buy. Eventually, employees and other bitcoiners will be the only ones able to afford our groceries, so people will have to hop on or become subsistence farmers, just like the bankers have already done to the world with their fiat!
Only I don't think any of US are going to feel justified using governments to force people to use bitcoins the way legal tender laws do all over the planet. And war? Who wants to go to war over bitcoin? That's nuts!
Bitcoin is a currency. Why compare it to fiat, which is basically crap? Oh yeah, because the prices of your water and your gas and your milk are in fiat. So sorry about that! Who wants to start a Bitcoin grocery chain? We could provide a steadily increasing exchange rate so people with cash can still buy. Eventually, employees and other bitcoiners will be the only ones able to afford our groceries, so people will have to hop on or become subsistence farmers, just like the bankers have already done to the world with their fiat!
Only I don't think any of US are going to feel justified using governments to force people to use bitcoins the way legal tender laws do all over the planet. And war? Who wants to go to war over bitcoin? That's nuts!
Not doomed to fail, but it is a big problem that makes it look like a ponzi. I know it's not!
But in order for Bitcoin to make it as a currency, it must work. Right now, it doesn't work. By "work" I mean, it must flow, move, be used for things other than speculation.
But in order for Bitcoin to make it as a currency, it must work. Right now, it doesn't work. By "work" I mean, it must flow, move, be used for things other than speculation.
Bitcoin is doomed to SUCCEED because of the hoarders!
Bitcoin's secret weapon is that so many are held by true believers, people in it for the long term, who will not dump on the dips, but will use them as an opportunity to accumulate more.
What we need is relatively stable, steadily increasing prices, and the hoarders are the ones who will make that happen.
One of Bitcoin's biggest strengths is that they cannot be shorted - you have to have Bitcoins to sell them - so we will not see the extreme volatility you see in other places.
There will always be liquidity. When BTC reaches $1,000 USD, I'll probably sell a few hundred to lock in my profits. When it gets to $10,000, I'll probably sell a few hundred more to guarantee a comfortable retirement. When it gets to $1,000,000, I'm going to sell a few to get a really nice house on a hill!
Everyone has their price!
Bitcoin's secret weapon is that so many are held by true believers, people in it for the long term, who will not dump on the dips, but will use them as an opportunity to accumulate more.
What we need is relatively stable, steadily increasing prices, and the hoarders are the ones who will make that happen.
One of Bitcoin's biggest strengths is that they cannot be shorted - you have to have Bitcoins to sell them - so we will not see the extreme volatility you see in other places.
There will always be liquidity. When BTC reaches $1,000 USD, I'll probably sell a few hundred to lock in my profits. When it gets to $10,000, I'll probably sell a few hundred more to guarantee a comfortable retirement. When it gets to $1,000,000, I'm going to sell a few to get a really nice house on a hill!
Everyone has their price!
Pthh. The price is going to be a trillion per BTC by 2020. No way in hell I'm letting my .004 BTC go.
Hoarding inflates the price of bitcoins...just like it does every other commodity on the planet. That doesn't mean hoarding is bad. Its just a part of human nature to hoard things that are valuable, like birds and shiny things lol.
I appreciate the Jr and Senior members of the board chiming and addressing my concerns. I'm not sure if there's a study on mob greed but I can't ever recall it being a good thing. Of course I do feel very pleased that no major websites have accepted BTC yet, that seems like another milestone domino just iching to fall. Also the MSBNC types are advising people not to get involved, which is another good sign because they always lead their viewer astray. We will see how it goes.. everything's a risk, but its always interesting to get the opinion of those with more experience.
Wordpress and Reddit are fairly big websites.
Nah.. I mean Wordpress was free from what I thought.. and well Reddit is free too. I mean they aren't very ecommerce driven sites. When I say big I'm thinking. Amazon (unlikely have own currency), Ebay (impossible), NewEgg, EastBay (shoes!), Walmart.com, Apple.com, etc... The sites that rack in huge money online and are all about moving product.
Well, you should have specified "commerce" websites.
But you do see my point that there are still many milestones out there to boost the currency to greater highs, right?
I appreciate the Jr and Senior members of the board chiming and addressing my concerns. I'm not sure if there's a study on mob greed but I can't ever recall it being a good thing. Of course I do feel very pleased that no major websites have accepted BTC yet, that seems like another milestone domino just iching to fall. Also the MSBNC types are advising people not to get involved, which is another good sign because they always lead their viewer astray. We will see how it goes.. everything's a risk, but its always interesting to get the opinion of those with more experience.
Wordpress and Reddit are fairly big websites.
Nah.. I mean Wordpress was free from what I thought.. and well Reddit is free too. I mean they aren't very ecommerce driven sites. When I say big I'm thinking. Amazon (unlikely have own currency), Ebay (impossible), NewEgg, EastBay (shoes!), Walmart.com, Apple.com, etc... The sites that rack in huge money online and are all about moving product.
I appreciate the Jr and Senior members of the board chiming and addressing my concerns. I'm not sure if there's a study on mob greed but I can't ever recall it being a good thing. Of course I do feel very pleased that no major websites have accepted BTC yet, that seems like another milestone domino just iching to fall. Also the MSBNC types are advising people not to get involved, which is another good sign because they always lead their viewer astray. We will see how it goes.. everything's a risk, but its always interesting to get the opinion of those with more experience.
Hoarders? You've heard of BitcoinJam right? If you feel that way then go lend your coins to startups and people there you filthy miser
I think it all depends on how the dev team handles it and the community remains pretty anarchistic Bitcoin will probably do well, but I'm feeling fairly cautious right now, I'm still betting on Bitcoin because it's a wise move and really damn cheap right now
, but when I can afford it I'll probably diversify into gold and silver.
I think it all depends on how the dev team handles it and the community remains pretty anarchistic Bitcoin will probably do well, but I'm feeling fairly cautious right now, I'm still betting on Bitcoin because it's a wise move and really damn cheap right now
, but when I can afford it I'll probably diversify into gold and silver.
Saving simply increases the value of the circulating coins. If anything, this acts as a positive price signal to the market that there is confidence in bitcoin being a superior secure distributed ledger than other ledgers such as fiat and precious metals.
I know that I will die of starvation, homeless on the streets, before I sell a single Bitcoin. So... yes.
To be honest looking at the numbers if this ball keeps rolling I'd agree with this philosophy. I'd hate for it to be worth 1000 bucks one day and I look back at using 1 to buy a 50 dollar Walmart giftcard or a pizza.
I agree
I know that I will die of starvation, homeless on the streets, before I sell a single Bitcoin. So... yes.
To be honest looking at the numbers if this ball keeps rolling I'd agree with this philosophy. I'd hate for it to be worth 1000 bucks one day and I look back at using 1 to buy a 50 dollar Walmart giftcard or a pizza.
I spend some, I save some just like I have done with fiat, so no, saving will not doom bitcoin. Saving is necessary if I wish to purchase things of great value at a later date, like a house or car.
When I get paid fiat I dont feel the need to instantly spend it all so why should bitcoin be any different?
When I get paid fiat I dont feel the need to instantly spend it all so why should bitcoin be any different?
It seems like everyone is in this for the end game. That is the currency being very scarce and worth lots of money, IE. hoarders becoming rich. But if it appreciates so fast and everyone wants to just hold on to it. It isn't very liquid a commodity is it? Those people exchanging gift cards for bit coins etc, turn around and do what? Do they cash in their bitcoins usually for a marginal profit? Seems like hoarding might be artifically inflating the price of the currency. Just looking at the charts it seems 17 dollars is a more practical figure. Thoughts?
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