Is bitcoin inflation wilder than fiat? - page 2.

sana54210

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Quote from: Negotiation on February 19, 2023, 03:14:00 AM

In my opinion, bitcoin inflation is higher than fiat but bitcoin is decentralized so it doesn't have as impact as fiat currencies. It is possible to prevent inflation by investing in bitcoin while fiat money is significantly more useful for a stable economy, countries often prefer to have a stable market rather than an advanced but highly uncertain currency.

Honestly I could not get what is bitcoin inflation. Inflation is a common thing and it does not be differentiated like fiat inflation and bitcoin inflation because inflation is basically a scenario of declining in buying power of people. In other words, people are not interested in spending more money for same product which is priced higher due to less supply or war like reasons.

Inflation is leading fiats to devalue. Inflation will happen everywhere over the time like same orange will cost more in next 2 years due to higher costs for cultivating it. Unlike fiats, 1 bitcoin is not valuing same in next 4 years hence devaluing of bitcoin is not happening over the time. So, bitcoin is protected against inflation by design concepts and adapting bitcoin will help us to fight against higher costs happening due to inflation.

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Quote from: boyptc on February 14, 2023, 08:42:59 AM

In general, the government that sees bitcoin as more stable than USD. They're not really a lot, only very few and little countries sees that and that's the reality.

But we'll come to that point that even the biggest and poweful countries will have to consider that but, they'll have to test the waters if it's going to help their economy to grow.

They cannot assert to an asset which is highly volatile and say that it's more stable than the traditional one that they've used to have.

Which government says bitcoin is more stable than USD? can you tell us which country it is from? No country says so. Even an ordinary person can see the volatility of bitcoin, I don't think the government is not stupid enough to not know about it. No asset is more volatile than bitcoin, if any then only shitcoins are pumped and dumped.

Negotiation

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In my opinion, bitcoin inflation is higher than fiat but bitcoin is decentralized so it doesn't have as impact as fiat currencies. It is possible to prevent inflation by investing in bitcoin while fiat money is significantly more useful for a stable economy, countries often prefer to have a stable market rather than an advanced but highly uncertain currency. This uncertainty also limits the utility of crypto as there is no reason to express the value of a crypto asset as a monetary unit.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 13, 2023, 12:18:54 AM

Quote from: MarjorieZimmermanGinger on February 07, 2023, 11:54:38 PM

the fact is that no one is able to control the price of bitcoin because of its decentralized nature.

No more decentralized if there are Institutional and companies have a lot of bitcoin, like blackrock, or any company like binance who have hundred thousand of bitcoin, they will easy to control bitcoin price on the market in near future, so you have noted it!.

we know gold is very decentralized on past, but after 1 country alot of gold and hoard it, nor more decentralized, the gold price were control who have alot of gold. so are bitcoins, if owned only 1 institution, company and person, I believe bitcoin isn't more decentralized in future, they will control it like fiat, bitcoin will more have inflation like fiat.

I'm not sure if bitcoin's inflation is greater than fiat money, but bitcoin's gradual loss of decentralization is something I've been thinking about. Yes, it is like gold, once an organization or country holds the majority of bitcoins, controlling the bitcoin price is not too difficult. Just like what is happening in the market, even though no one can control the bitcoin network, the sharks who own a lot of bitcoin can still manipulate the market easily. The current bitcoin price does not depend on supply and demand, it is being manipulated by the sharks, if they want it to drop, nothing can stop.

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Quote from: boyptc on February 14, 2023, 08:42:59 AM

In general, the government that sees bitcoin as more stable than USD. They're not really a lot, only very few and little countries sees that and that's the reality.

But we'll come to that point that even the biggest and poweful countries will have to consider that but, they'll have to test the waters if it's going to help their economy to grow.

They cannot assert to an asset which is highly volatile and say that it's more stable than the traditional one that they've used to have.

I don't think the government sees Bitcoin is more stable than USD, Bitcoin price can change 10% just in a day and many people would be panic to see that. Bitcoin do help their economy to grow because they can create a law to tax it, it's actually a win-win situation for them. But they just don't trust Bitcoin and can't accept the risk, that's why they haven't adopt Bitcoin yet. Still remember the early phase where El Salvador accept Bitcoin as legal tender? a lot pensions and old people are complaints because they're don't want to accept their money in Bitcoin. This is another reason why the countries doesn't ready to accept Bitcoin as legal tender.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 18, 2023, 08:04:29 PM

Yes, i ever imagined that supply minted and no more bitcoin to be mined. But, bitcoin still has units that can be Redenomination to small it again from units of satoshi today.

Smallest denomination of bitcion didn't subjected to inflation. Sometimes, people can't afford to buy huge amounts of bitcoin to do transaction or investments. That's why there was denomination of bitcoin. It gives a way for people with small amounts of money to be able to use bitcoin.

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 18, 2023, 08:04:29 PM

Example, lowest value today is 1 satoshi or 0.00000001 BTC, maybe if no more btc, we can small it unit to be 0.1 satoshi = 0.000000001 BTC BTC, it's not just adding value, but maybe next there For will be a lower fee than today.

Denomination never adds value. The value of bitcoins that gets denominated is always relying on the price of 1 bitcoin = $$$. The fees of bitcoin itself are determined by the block. I think that denomination has no relationship with determining the fees of btc.

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Quote from: tiCeR on February 15, 2023, 06:09:11 PM

The way Bitcoin is designed and the basic principle which the community agrees on will favor scarcity and a limited supply. It is still many decades to go until there will be no more Bitcoin issuance per block mined. Until then the network should be in a state where miners are still sufficiently incentivized to invest hash power and get rewarded from the transaction cost. That's an interesting situation none of us will be able to witness, but I think we'll have an idea whether the network is going to make it in several years from now when we had two or three more halvings.

Yes, i ever imagined that supply minted and no more bitcoin to be mined. But, bitcoin still has units that can be Redenomination to small it again from units of satoshi today. Example, lowest value today is 1 satoshi or 0.00000001 BTC, maybe if no more btc, we can small it unit to be 0.1 satoshi = 0.000000001 BTC BTC, it's not just adding value, but maybe next there For will be a lower fee than today.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 15, 2023, 06:00:48 AM

To assume that Bitcoin will experience same type of inflation as fiat currencies is not accurate, because of its supply is limited of 21 Million coins , whereas fiat currencies can be printed in unlimited quantity by the central banks of the countries . Inflation in fiat currencies is caused by money supply which governments usually control by increasing interest rates. In contrast, Bitcoin has been programmed for maximum supply of 21 million and it is not possible to increase it. Inflation is Bitcoin is caused by increase in demand with limited supply of coins, can lead to higher price of Bitcoin.

The deflationary pattern of bitcoin will drive up its price, this has been going on for many years, and periodic bear markets should not confuse you, eventually bitcoin will be able to save your funds from inflation. To do this, it is worth looking at its entire history from the first days of its existence, it is constantly only growing in price, because its quantity is limited.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 01, 2023, 12:36:04 AM

We know Inflation has become a frightening specter in 2023 because of covid and Ukraine and Rusia war. This is related to crypto, I am not sure if crypto price today has grown up in the line without following the fiat. Yes, fiat aka conventional money is the factor we pursue to bitcoin.

Do you know that inflation existed even before Covid, Ukraine, and Russia wars began, this tells you that inflation is an element of Fiat/cash which is here to stay, as long as the principles of cash remain the same, we will continue to see inflation. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has beaten inflation from different angles while halving has been acting as a deflationary tool with supply, the two are not comparable in this argument may be speculations of the economy led us into believing that the fiat drives bitcoin price.

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Many countries have thought to change currency into bitcoin because the government thinks bitcoin is more related stable than USD. because the reality, USD is not have something great if their foreign policy isn't great in the past. The powerful country is just running their greedy for self-benefit. Now, they begin to turn to bitcoin and look like started to control the bitcoin inflation, so what you think if bitcoin inflation is wilder than fiat?

The problem with this country is that they came late, not late in the sense that it wouldn't strive in the future but they bought at a high time price, and since the effects of bad guys(SBF and CO) infiltrated the crypto space, it hasn't been funny with losses, if they continue to believe like in the early days, they would definitely have a story to tell to other countries who have yet adopted bitcoin as a store of value.

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Quote from: Joshapat on February 14, 2023, 09:48:11 PM

Of course bitcoin inflation is deeper than fiat, bitcoin price fluctuations occur almost every day so that it makes it difficult for anyone to control prices, and if you want to control prices you need a very large stock and capital, this is what makes many countries not legalize bitcoin because it can cause problems serious if not controlled.

Actually the problem in several developed countries that have not legalized Bitcoin is not only in the price fluctuation sector, but in their ability to still not be able to control their own financial system so they must really have the ability to do that so they don't experience a lot of losses when the price goes down, but they also have to look for opportunities when the price increases a lot like what happened now where the price of Bitcoin is already approaching $ 25K.

This means that price fluctuations in Bitcoin are very reasonable and also every Bitcoin holder only has to understand it in general and be able to withstand it in the long term. So the serious problems that may be faced by countries that have legalized Bitcoin also have a better solution as long as the state wants to look for it properly.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 15, 2023, 06:00:48 AM

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 01, 2023, 12:36:04 AM

We know Inflation has become a frightening specter in 2023 because of covid and Ukraine and Rusia war. This is related to crypto, I am not sure if crypto price today has grown up in the line without following the fiat. Yes, fiat aka conventional money is the factor we pursue to bitcoin.

To assume that Bitcoin will experience same type of inflation as fiat currencies is not accurate, because of its supply is limited of 21 Million coins , whereas fiat currencies can be printed in unlimited quantity by the central banks of the countries . Inflation in fiat currencies is caused by money supply which governments usually control by increasing interest rates. In contrast, Bitcoin has been programmed for maximum supply of 21 million and it is not possible to increase it. Inflation is Bitcoin is caused by increase in demand with limited supply of coins, can lead to higher price of Bitcoin.

Technically it is possible that Bitcoin's supply could get inflated in the future, but it is not a likely scenario as the vast majority of stakeholders would have to upgrade their software / nodes in order for a new supply to come into effect. It is not probable because there is usually no stakeholder who would financially benefit from an increase in the supply.

The way Bitcoin is designed and the basic principle which the community agrees on will favor scarcity and a limited supply. It is still many decades to go until there will be no more Bitcoin issuance per block mined. Until then the network should be in a state where miners are still sufficiently incentivized to invest hash power and get rewarded from the transaction cost. That's an interesting situation none of us will be able to witness, but I think we'll have an idea whether the network is going to make it in several years from now when we had two or three more halvings.

Sayeds56

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 01, 2023, 12:36:04 AM

We know Inflation has become a frightening specter in 2023 because of covid and Ukraine and Rusia war. This is related to crypto, I am not sure if crypto price today has grown up in the line without following the fiat. Yes, fiat aka conventional money is the factor we pursue to bitcoin.

To assume that Bitcoin will experience same type of inflation as fiat currencies is not accurate, because of its supply is limited of 21 Million coins , whereas fiat currencies can be printed in unlimited quantity by the central banks of the countries . Inflation in fiat currencies is caused by money supply which governments usually control by increasing interest rates. In contrast, Bitcoin has been programmed for maximum supply of 21 million and it is not possible to increase it. Inflation is Bitcoin is caused by increase in demand with limited supply of coins, can lead to higher price of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: panganib999 on February 14, 2023, 05:49:07 PM

For one, bitcoin isn't inflationary. The coin's value is deflationary by means of supply cut every now and then. Get your facts straight. Another, one, bitcoin is volatile, USD isn't. So that alone should give you an idea that Bitcoin's valuation doesn't give a damn about whatever USD's valuation is. Most countries as well wouldn't choose bitcoin to be their national currency even if it's the last thing they'd have to do to get to heaven. It's volatility rate's not worth the huge potential for profit it could bring, plus bitcoin's supply's limited, no way it can cater to a large population let alone multiple country's worth if used as.a bona fide transaction currency. One last thing, bitcoin's market is different from fiat's. Therefore no direct impact against the other is expected.

Same thing I was going to comment. I believe that most countries are not struggling in terms of their economy or finances so it's true that they will stick on their local currency but I already saw some extremely poor and struggling countries who made BTC and other currency as their main currency because their own is totally useless anymore.

Volatility of Bitcoin is not a bad thing. I know it's risky but that is if you don't know how to deal with it but if you will only use it as your advantage like buying when the price dips and selling when the price pumps, you will say that the risk was worth it. BTC had some difference with fiats but there are times where each of them can affect the other.

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Of course bitcoin inflation is deeper than fiat, bitcoin price fluctuations occur almost every day so that it makes it difficult for anyone to control prices, and if you want to control prices you need a very large stock and capital, this is what makes many countries not legalize bitcoin because it can cause problems serious if not controlled.

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For one, bitcoin isn't inflationary. The coin's value is deflationary by means of supply cut every now and then. Get your facts straight. Another, one, bitcoin is volatile, USD isn't. So that alone should give you an idea that Bitcoin's valuation doesn't give a damn about whatever USD's valuation is. Most countries as well wouldn't choose bitcoin to be their national currency even if it's the last thing they'd have to do to get to heaven. It's volatility rate's not worth the huge potential for profit it could bring, plus bitcoin's supply's limited, no way it can cater to a large population let alone multiple country's worth if used as.a bona fide transaction currency. One last thing, bitcoin's market is different from fiat's. Therefore no direct impact against the other is expected.

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If the country legalizes bitcoin and making bitcoin equivalent to Fiat will certainly be a complicated problem in the event of inflation, as we know that bitcoin is very fluctuating so it is difficult to predict, besides that large marketcap makes it difficult for the country to be able to control bitcoin. While Fiat is certainly simpler because it is fully controlled by the central bank.

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In general, the government that sees bitcoin as more stable than USD. They're not really a lot, only very few and little countries sees that and that's the reality.

But we'll come to that point that even the biggest and poweful countries will have to consider that but, they'll have to test the waters if it's going to help their economy to grow.

They cannot assert to an asset which is highly volatile and say that it's more stable than the traditional one that they've used to have.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 14, 2023, 01:20:42 AM

Quote from: tiCeR on February 13, 2023, 01:22:17 AM

While I agree that supply control can be abused for price manipulation, you should still and not mix up the terms inflation and volatility as you seem to have done in your first post.

that's just a temporary conclusion for the attentive reader. If disagree, there will be a real conclusion and good opinions from known people.

Quote from: tiCeR on February 13, 2023, 01:22:17 AM

Now if you pick specific points in time you can indeed tweak numbers concerning Bitcoin's purchasing power and argue that it performed not very well, but that is very subjective. Nobody in the world would claim that Bitcoin decreased in purchasing power over a 10-year time period. And those who think about it realistically also know that Bitcoin is most likely going to stay highly volatile for an extended period of time. But especially when you take longer periods of time you will see that Bitcoin is much closer to gold than anything else. Gold had its crash of 45% or something from 2011 till 2016. That is why an investment like Bitcoin shouldn't be understood as a short-term gamble. You can be lucky and catch a fantastic bull run momentum, but it can also end in a catastrophe if you need the money in a few months from now and are forced to liquidate your position.

Yes, a lot of people think that bitcoin is good for investing, but the reality is not, bitcoin is money as a white paper said. ( I don't know why people invest money?)

If people think bitcoin as goods, they will hope for a return to percentage profit, whatever the year, they will back to bitcoin as profit. and 95% of people around the world don't really understand why bitcoin was made, and all think now it doesn't fit with satoshi's goals.

This leaves out the fact that Bitcoin is not a stagnant technology, it keeps evolving. It also depends on the individual context people are using it in and also on the individual purposes that people are using it for. Some consider it a store of value in the form of digital gold, and some use it for transacting value on a frequent basis, making it more being used as a form of currency.

There are many questions that will impact our opinion about what Bitcoin is. New technology and applications, ever growing infrastructure, code updates and global adoption by governments, institutions/organizations and people, etc. For Bitcoin to function as a currency, it is obvious that the circulating supply has to carry a certain value first. Volatility is likely to flatten out with growing adoption and increasing value. Inflation is hard-coded and therefore deterministic. Everyone knows what the inflation will be, but nobody yet knows how volatile it will be. I do expect Bitcoin volatility to decrease over longer periods of time if the market cap keeps increasing.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 14, 2023, 01:20:42 AM

Quote from: tiCeR on February 13, 2023, 01:22:17 AM

While I agree that supply control can be abused for price manipulation, you should still and not mix up the terms inflation and volatility as you seem to have done in your first post.

that's just a temporary conclusion for the attentive reader. If disagree, there will be a real conclusion and good opinions from known people.

Quote from: tiCeR on February 13, 2023, 01:22:17 AM

Now if you pick specific points in time you can indeed tweak numbers concerning Bitcoin's purchasing power and argue that it performed not very well, but that is very subjective. Nobody in the world would claim that Bitcoin decreased in purchasing power over a 10-year time period. And those who think about it realistically also know that Bitcoin is most likely going to stay highly volatile for an extended period of time. But especially when you take longer periods of time you will see that Bitcoin is much closer to gold than anything else. Gold had its crash of 45% or something from 2011 till 2016. That is why an investment like Bitcoin shouldn't be understood as a short-term gamble. You can be lucky and catch a fantastic bull run momentum, but it can also end in a catastrophe if you need the money in a few months from now and are forced to liquidate your position.

Yes, a lot of people think that bitcoin is good for investing, but the reality is not, bitcoin is money as a white paper said. ( I don't know why people invest money?)

If people think bitcoin as goods, they will hope for a return to percentage profit, whatever the year, they will back to bitcoin as profit. and 95% of people around the world don't really understand why bitcoin was made, and all think now it doesn't fit with satoshi's goals.

I agree that bitcoin is like gold, if we hold it in the short term then we can lose money, gold is associated with long-term investments where at least the increase will not be affected by the inflation that occurs. it's just that bitcoin doesn't have a form like gold, even though it actually has other functions as currency. we will experience a profit when we sell it at the right time because of high fluctuations, from that profit it multiplies when converted to fiat currency. and that is why there has been a shift in the function of bitcoin from a tool of exchange to an investment tool.

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on February 01, 2023, 12:36:04 AM

so what you think if bitcoin inflation is wilder than fiat?

I think there are reasons why bitcoin inflation is wilder than fiat? First, this happens because the more money circulating in the market, the more money is used for spending and investing. The second reason why bitcoin has high inflation is because of the constant crashes of cryptocurrencies. The value of Bitcoin can fall at any time, but every time there is another high value explosion, it causes high inflation so that its value is now less than before that high.
The third is that one of the biggest problems we face today with bitcoin is bitcoin hacking and theft.

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