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Topic: Is Bitcoin just a stepping stone to something better? - page 3. (Read 5545 times)

newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

wrong... the bitcoin core devs have stated many times they wont change anything unless 100% necessary! so yes bitcoin will stay the way it is unless something comes along and threatens the protocol and demands a change to the protocol!

I noticed from this talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIy2Fw9xjuk#t=819) Andreas says basically to paraphrase 'Once Bitcoin goes mainstream … it won't be able to change in 10 years' ... starting at around 21 minutes in the talk

However, he says after implementation of anonymous transactions in the core protocol - all other innovation and code should be added to layers above the core protocol
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf
I think Bitcoin is a stepping stone to a better Bitcoin in the future.   I think it will still be Bitcoin that survives, but it will be an evolved more advanced Bitcoin in the future...  We will probably look back at earlier generations of bitcoin like we look at the big square Tvs vs. the flat screens that are the norm now...
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

wrong... the bitcoin core devs have stated many times they wont change anything unless 100% necessary! so yes bitcoin will stay the way it is unless something comes along and threatens the protocol and demands a change to the protocol!

Not true.  Was P2SH 100% necessary?  It is unlikely Bitcoin will be changed for slight or trivial reasons but the idea it won't evolve is simply not based on history.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

wrong... the bitcoin core devs have stated many times they wont change anything unless 100% necessary! so yes bitcoin will stay the way it is unless something comes along and threatens the protocol and demands a change to the protocol!
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002

More and more, Bitcoin looks like a Pink Sheet stock. Trading continues, even though there's no asset value behind it.

The fundamental problem with Bitcoin is that unidirectional money transfers to remote anonymous parties are the con man's dream. Most "Bitcoin enterpreneurs" seem to be con men. Over half the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust, even though that should be a low-risk business. Most of the sellers of mining hardware seem to be unable to reliably make, sell, and deliver ordered hardware. The "Bitcoin stock markets" are a joke, and the "Bitcoin Ponzis" are just embarassing.

Bitcoin has become the clown car of money because of all this.

The underlying technology isn't bad. We're about 2/3 of the way there to something that might work. The first generation of crypto-currency was Chaum's DigiCash in the early 1990s. This had protection against double-spending, like Bitcoin, but it relied on a centralized ledger system. Bitcoin is basically DigiCash with a distributed ledger, the block chain. DigiCash failed because of Cham's differences with his backers, and because it was too early. 

With Bitcoin, you still have to trust the receiving party when you order something. From recent experience, that doesn't work. The protocol could in theory be extended to support escrow and arbitration, but it hasn't been.  That's the remaining 1/3 of the problem.

What we have now is too slimeball-friendly.

nxt solves all this! Smiley and lots more!
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Bitcoin might get successor at some point but definitely it wont get thrown away. I expect it would rather be slow evolution then sudden revolution.

When it comes to technology when something get outdated it is never forgotten. Everyday nowadays devices uses same cheeps that were used by old computers. Nothing get wasted. Bitcoin might be value determine in future, just as we use dollar right now.

I know this might not be the same comparison but remeber yahoo was one of the most popular search engines before google stepped in and look how fast they gotten to the top just by implementing a new concept to the search engine.  I thought yahoo was going to be on the top and it never did happen, now yahoo is on there knees.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Cryptocurrencies Exchange
Bitcoin might get successor at some point but definitely it wont get thrown away. I expect it would rather be slow evolution then sudden revolution.

When it comes to technology when something get outdated it is never forgotten. Everyday nowadays devices uses same cheeps that were used by old computers. Nothing get wasted. Bitcoin might be value determine in future, just as we use dollar right now.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
gamersglory, by the sound of it you want a communist coin. One with nearly equal value for all.

I cannot see it becoming valuable. Why would I invest in a coin that changes quantity in my wallet based on the market value? Today I have 20 commicoin that is worth $200 each. But tomorrow I have 10 commicoin worth $400 each. Where will this coin get value?
Then interest for mining? Isn't that the same thing as mining for coins? If you mine you get more coin, if you don't mine you don't get more coins. Based on the amount you contribute to the network is how much more coin you get. What's the difference between that and the interest you suggest? It seems again you're thinking that because someone mines, no matter how little, they get equal based on the speed of the network. So if the network speed is 1ph you get .5 coin, if the network hash is 2ph you get 1coin.

I don't see any of these things working, but you should create an alt coin with these features and see how it catches on.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

Bitcoin code is technically easy to change, but if the changes are so big as to require a hard fork, many miners may not agree to change, and hence those code changes won't become effective.

On the other hand, new crypto currencies can build in the necessary modifications and then start their operations, or add the changes later when there are not so many miners yet. The more miners, the harder it is to get them all to agree to upgrade to the newest code. Miners are those who define the network operations and they decide what will fly and what will not. Bitcoin's being the first in this market is both advantage and disadvantage, the disadvantage is the code changes are too conservative and slow compared to other coins.

If people need such changes that a) Bitcoin developers might not agree to implement or b) miners will not agree to accept, then people could switch to another crypto currency. Actually this diversification has been going on for a while, top 5-10 cryptos from coinmarketcap if you're interested. Bitcoin is still the leader, because it still performs the basic function of relatively secure money transfer and store of value, and that's good enough for most people, for now.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

Bitcoin has a huge advantage, but it is possible for something better to come along.
Also, if the Bitcoin Foundation continues to anger enough people, then our movement could (possibly) have an epic split into two or more projects.

So you've basically outlined at least one of the projects that major antagonists to Bitcoin would pursue - divide and conquer. Some kind of agent provocateur that discredits the foundation or a few.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?

Bitcoin has a huge advantage, but it is possible for something better to come along.
Also, if the Bitcoin Foundation continues to anger enough people, then our movement could (possibly) have an epic split into two or more projects.
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
I think that Bitcoin isn't a steppingstone, but it is the foundation for economic development in the future.
Using Bitcoins abolishes the role of middlemen and it gives a chance to the economy be a self-regulating system.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU
All technology is exactly as you described, when viewed on a long enough timescale.

newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
How is it possible that Bitcoin is a stepping stone, when the code is open source and can change? It's not stuck and frozen in time, it can evolve, right?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 101
Be Here Now
More and more, Bitcoin looks like a Pink Sheet stock. Trading continues, even though there's no asset value behind it.

The fundamental problem with Bitcoin is that unidirectional money transfers to remote anonymous parties are the con man's dream. Most "Bitcoin enterpreneurs" seem to be con men. Over half the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust, even though that should be a low-risk business. Most of the sellers of mining hardware seem to be unable to reliably make, sell, and deliver ordered hardware. The "Bitcoin stock markets" are a joke, and the "Bitcoin Ponzis" are just embarassing.

Bitcoin has become the clown car of money because of all this.

The underlying technology isn't bad. We're about 2/3 of the way there to something that might work. The first generation of crypto-currency was Chaum's DigiCash in the early 1990s. This had protection against double-spending, like Bitcoin, but it relied on a centralized ledger system. Bitcoin is basically DigiCash with a distributed ledger, the block chain. DigiCash failed because of Cham's differences with his backers, and because it was too early.  

With Bitcoin, you still have to trust the receiving party when you order something. From recent experience, that doesn't work. The protocol could in theory be extended to support escrow and arbitration, but it hasn't been.  That's the remaining 1/3 of the problem.

What we have now is too slimeball-friendly.

I disagree that it's too slimeball friendly or that the only entrepreneurs are con men looking to skirt the law.

A large part of the appeal for people is the reality that it can't be taxed or controlled or outlawed or anything else and go away just because some agency is threatened by it. I'm not a criminal and most people here aren't either, and to have an alternative means of currency with a secure value is a welcome relief. I can probably speak for a ton of people when I say that if I earn X amount of money, no government body has any rights to it without my consent anymore than they can take anything else...and the only time they do that is when they're abusing the limits of their power anyway...or get too threatened by the reality that people will choose to not hand it over when there is a viable alternative. And I don't want them touching it. I don't even want them aware of it.

I think people tend to forget what is real here.

We elect representatives to represent us and our wishes for our nation.
Their job is to honor those wishes, do the job, get paid and butt out.

Instead, they lie through their teeth, con people, get elected, do whatever the fuck they want to do, abuse their positions, abuse their power, and treat those they're supposed to represent like criminals - can't speak out to them during a speech, else the goon squad hauls you out, that douchebag bush fired up "free speech zones" 2 or 3 miles away from anywhere he was because he's a fucking psychopath, can't freely enter their offices without being thrown out or jailed, can't call them up to discuss policy because they don't answer and then condescend if you catch them off guard, and you can't vote them in or out because the whole thing is rigged...all they while they make back door deals that rip off the citizens, start wars that bankrupt the entire nation, lead into further and further debt - all this shit is what is reality here and now.

They are the criminals and of course they're not going to like the idea of bitcoin coming along giving anyone a choice because they know anyone who is sane, rational, and intelligent will choose against everything they are until they implode - which is exactly what needs to happen.

As long as bitcoin is being traded at all, I don't give one rat's ass what any government declares, whether they outlaw it or not, fuck them. They had one job and becoming lord of the people is not it.

This is the one foundational thread that finally makes nonviolent revolution actually possible....so if Joe Blow wants to buy porn pot and pills through some back channel, I don't care, because chances are on the order of 100% that Joe Blow first tried all those legal channels and faced nothing but bullshit red tape, loopholes, obnoxious regulations, high costs, taxes and a slew of other things just to end up denied, declined or blocked. So they took it to the underground market with a secure payment alternative with value to trade for products or services.

Most everything we do anymore is a crime.

The governments, the corporations, and the bankers are the real criminals.

And because of it, bitcoin isn't going anywhere...and the more people understand its true "disruptive" power, the more they will flock in droves, cash out their USDs or other currencies and trade out.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
I I really don't want bitcoin to be the steppingstone.   it already has taken the lead in the economy.  And this is great because it can lead to more businesses and more jobs
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1023
More and more, Bitcoin looks like a Pink Sheet stock. Trading continues, even though there's no asset value behind it.

The fundamental problem with Bitcoin is that unidirectional money transfers to remote anonymous parties are the con man's dream. Most "Bitcoin enterpreneurs" seem to be con men. Over half the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust, even though that should be a low-risk business. Most of the sellers of mining hardware seem to be unable to reliably make, sell, and deliver ordered hardware. The "Bitcoin stock markets" are a joke, and the "Bitcoin Ponzis" are just embarassing.

Bitcoin has become the clown car of money because of all this.

The underlying technology isn't bad. We're about 2/3 of the way there to something that might work. The first generation of crypto-currency was Chaum's DigiCash in the early 1990s. This had protection against double-spending, like Bitcoin, but it relied on a centralized ledger system. Bitcoin is basically DigiCash with a distributed ledger, the block chain. DigiCash failed because of Cham's differences with his backers, and because it was too early. 

With Bitcoin, you still have to trust the receiving party when you order something. From recent experience, that doesn't work. The protocol could in theory be extended to support escrow and arbitration, but it hasn't been.  That's the remaining 1/3 of the problem.

What we have now is too slimeball-friendly.

pretty good analysis to some extent, but there is huge value behind btc. It can replace 50% of all banking infrastructure, That's worth a trillion or so per year.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
Is Bitcoin just a stepping stone to something better?
Crypto will be one of the biggest things in our lifetime.
Bitcoin has a big head start as the leader. No one knows for certain regarding something better.

bitcoin is probably here to stay, but off this stepping stone so much is now possible.
member
Activity: 114
Merit: 10
No more Crypto in this world
I think bitcoin will be around for a while and the price will go up a lot and then yes, eventually another "coin/platform/tech" will have addressed all of bitcoins flaws and become more widely accepted. 

What are these flaws?

One guys owns 10% of the economy.
Block times are 10 minutes.
If I want it to be secure, I have to load linux on a computer not ever connected to the internet and then make a cold wallet and then store that safely.  (are you kidding me??? like .01% of the population is even capable of doing this. seriously 0.01%)
Mining bitcoin uses lots of energy and computing power which ultimately makes bitcoin prices much higher than they need to be for the service actually performed. (yes, I know some of you like this, but really it is a flawed system)
Mining is becoming heavily centralized and moving forward if the pools don't okay something, it won't happen.  (do you think they will okay things against their interest, even if it is in the average person's interest.  sounds like the government we have now controlling fiat)
The language is confusing.
It's start has grown out of shady industries tainting its image.
There are lots of services being provided by or planned by 2.0 platforms that bitcoin just can't do or at least isn't doing.

Yes, bitcoin is adaptable and yes it can address many of these faults and adapt, but will it address all of them?  Some of these flaws are pretty serious flaws.  A new platform that wipes the slate clean and addresses these issues and more, could be much more successful and overtake bitcoin.  I gather bitcoin will still be around when that happens; just as fiat surpassed gold, it didn't make gold irrelevant. 




Part of my point exactly. Bitcoin is not a fair coin. Now we have been seeing this with rich people buying all the mining power they can find and chewing through the network while those of us who can't afford to mine on a large scale are stuck with the Bitcoin equivalent of trickle down economics. Which we know does not work in the real world. We need a coin that can do a few neet tricks. I would like to share

1. The coins mined earn interest while in your wallet or on an exchange Wallet. Don't know what would be an appropriate rate though. But the best thing i think would be the rate would very based on how much hashing power would be on the whole network ex. more hash = more interest . This would help little guys who don't have a lot of hashing power. makes it more like banking

2.No interest made when your not mining. Not putting in the work anymore why should you earn.

3.The biggest part a coin that can adjust with inflation and deflation. If the value goes down everyone should feel it in there wallet no mater how big or how small. Amount of coinage in your wallet would decrease or Inflate based on value think for example if the coins value got really high it would split like a stock 1 coin becomes 2 coins and so on a split would happen after it reaches a fixed doller value.

4. Some sort of new hashing algorithm that puts everyone no matter how much hashing power they have on equal footing. Difficulty increasing should not be able to be cheated by having more hashing power.

5.Mined block size will vary based on all of the above. Each block will have the interest to pay out to everyone's active mining wallets.

I would love for others to add there ideas and comment on my ideas           


     
hero member
Activity: 653
Merit: 500
To bitpop:

-TX time
-Confirmations needed
- Mining times

I guess you mean the block time (*expected* 10 min in bitcoin) should be shorter, right?

A short block time (some altcoins use a very low block time) will lead to more orphans blocks and more likely to have natural forks.
IMO it is pretty safe to accept zero-confirmation tx as long as 1) The inputs are confirmed 2) The tx pays min fee 3) No double spending attempts detected after 30s.
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