Topic: Is bitcoin legal? Not according to U.S. government - page 2. (Read 7294 times)

In the end the US is going to be more worried about taxing bitcoin use than it is about trying to get rid of it. If they can find a way to tax it, then they will most likely promote it. For example: a store would associate their bitcoin address with their merchant/tax number and now they have a very easy accounting system of how much came in through the use of bitcoins.

They wont give a shit about bitcoin for one reason...IN THE END SOMEONE IS CONVERTING IT TO USD AND THEY WILL TAX THAT ASS! Until then...its a worth peice of code.

AAAmazing! So clear, easy to understand and historically and factually correct.

In view of current issues with nuclear energy, a very appropriate analogy.

MONEY is like NUCLEAR ENERGY. Very powerful invention, that requires a LOT OF CARE even when used by good people, and CAPABLE OF ENORMOUS DAMAGE when used by evil ones.

After watching it  I feel that America HAS future, in spite of all damage done by banksters.

Federal Reserve notes are not lawful tender either.

http://harveyalexander.weebly.com/themoneyscam.html

I'm going to pass this vid on for ever, awesome stuff mate, thanks for linking it.

Is it any different to trading in a squillion other international currencies? Bitcoins are the most international of all, except owned by all and none alike.

This. I can imagine the FED getting hysterical in the future and i do look forward to it. Ahhh just reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

But good hackers/engineers will have an advantage. That is REALLY what I like about Bitcoin - not financial crooks, that can do nothing, but down to earth practitioners will benefit. What a relief for a change, after all the "outsourcing" done by greedy assholes not willing to consider implications of their unlimited greed (defined as a desire to improve your position 10 times at the cost of making position of 1000 people 10 times worse). That is generally road to nowhere, whereas Bitcoin is a road to sanity.

A group of people or better yet Govt. with power to protect itself that will adopt Bitcoin will RULE THE WORLD.

It's up to the US Govt. to decide if they want to bullshit about "Full Spectrum Domination", or really do something.  Yes, crooks running Federal Reserve should be prosecuted for what they've done. It's also up to the US people to DO SOMETHING NOW.

IMO the US Constitution is unlikely to exert a meaningful influence on the outcome of Bitcoin.  Especially if the DOJ, FBI, NSA, CIA or any other US Federal TLA's are involved -- US Federal LEO's mostly think the Constitution is an historical relic and anyone taking it seriously is probably some kind of "Taxi Driver" type whose phone should be tapped as a safety precaution.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that a US Federal campaign to destroy Bitcoin will happen sooner or later.  Because Bitcoin offers a kind of anonymity it will be labeled as "money laundering."  However I suspect the Feds will go to great lengths to ensure that Bitcoin never gets its day in court, unless, of course, an opportunity arises to prosecute an individual or group who is jurisprudentially clearly guilty of a bunch of crap unrelated or tangentially related to Bitcoin (i.e.: wire fraud + racketeering + tax evasion + money laundering, all using Bitcoin).

As others have posted, it may take them a while to figure out what Bitcoin actually is.  But don't expect Feds to live up to their infamy as misinformed dolts in 2011.  In the Internet era, facts are cheap.  Anyone with access to Google, git, and an abacus has the requisite tools to figure out what Bitcoin is and the Feds will make sure they have at least a cursory understanding before they send the goon squads to round  up their citizens.

Here's my reasoning: since 9/11, it has become -- I suspect -- sacrosanct in the Federal LE community that highly traceable, highly seizable money is going to be the cornerstone of a new anti-terrorism and internal revenue enforcement regime, and that protecting the control and monitoring of the movement of all practical money instruments is a a top priority -- much higher priority than, say, enforcing actual laws.

So once Bitcoin reaches a certain critical mass -- and I fear it looms dangerously close already -- its going to light up pretty big on their radar.  Even if the real money supply of Bitcoins were to remain unexpectedly small, a high velocity of money could still threaten the control of the Fed and the Feds over their money-power security blanket -- by which I don't mean an actual high velocity of Bitcoin, just the perception that it is possible for Bitcoin to accelerate in the future without real expansion of the monetary base.

Personally, I'm just grateful for Bin Laden -- that could very well have bought the US an extra six months or more.  I wish I were kidding  

On the other hand, I think any US Federal attempt to shutdown and outlaw Bitcoin will most likely fail.  I suspect that, due to the design of Bitcoin, they will be forced to trample on some fairly fundamental human rights or to implement some sort of Great Firewall to fight any "war on Bitcoin;" ultimately it will be a PR disaster.  Eventually some US administration will be smart enough to know when to back down.  I could see it being put into some sort of legal-gray-area status or even recognized as legal but with some onerous tax accountancy burden attached to it to make any real-world, practical usage of Bitcoin a de jure crime even if it's technically allowed.

Of course this is all wild speculation and even if I'm right, the whole process could take decades.  But if I had to wager on an outcome it would be something along those lines.

Yes, for a short term. The long term will slowly steady out as we get closer to 21 million. I noticed that most of of my friends are supporting the bitcoin commodity which is fantastic. They are mining as well. We will have even more mining players in the system thus, the calculation to mine blocks will dramatically reduce as more miners appear. Although, the difficulty blocks bound to get harder to mine which will scrape the lower end miners. They will not able mine very well and not very efficient plus, it's just a waste of time.

Its still ok AFAIK

Bitcoin is money. That's the whole point of bitcoin, is to be able to use it as a means of payment. If you want to get "technical", Wikipedia describes money as "Money is any object or record, that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context." Bitcoin certainly falls within those boundaries.

At this point, Bitcoin is not stable enough to be used as a mainstream currency, so the majority of Bitcoin is just involved in stock-like transactions, but the intended end result of Bitcoin is to be able to use it as a currency.

but then again, technically speaking, bitcoin is not money

it really isn't a currency either (typically currencies inflate and constantly lose value over time)

it's more of a digital commodity

my opinion

So are X-box live points and WoW gold.

Aren't bitcoins completely virtual? 

Good arguments.  Some power there I think, but that's not how it's being presented to the public.  I listened to the bitcoin video very carefully.

There are major differences between all these things and bitcoin.  Even if there wasn't, it wouldn't matter.  If the Feds perceive bitcoin as a threat they will come after it.  All they need is the facade of legality and the Federal courts will back them up.  You can make arguments until you howl at the moon, and they might be good ones too, but it won't matter.  Unless you have a really good lawyer, political connections and a sizable amount of public opinion on your side forget it.  Maybe you could get a really, really good lawyer like Tom Cryer but that's about it.  You would need a jury trial though because they would put the screws on the Federal judge that would hear the case and he would not be impartial to say the least.

Online poker is not illegal in America either and is legal in many countries the online operators are based.  The government decided to shut that industry down and did it by attacking the payment processor and shutting the early payment sites like neteller down to US customers.  Do not make the mistake of thinking that the BitCoin is too far out of the US government reach.  

I think you're wrong. I think  Bitcoin is the real deal, and it will be a big concern to them, and they will attempt to "touch it" if not more.