Is Bitcoin placebo-money? | Bitcointalksearch.org

FooDSt4mP

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Quote from: Justsomeforumuser on June 24, 2011, 07:49:38 PM

Quote

instantly and freely transferable piece

1. Takes however long as the client needs to catch up with blocks to confirm+"peer review", thus not "instant".
2. Without "maturing" first, you are forced to pay small amounts to be allowed to transfer the BTC again. Later on from what I understand the fees are supposed to make up the mainstay of the incentive to keep mining after all BTC have been created.

I can wire real money for free without a fee inside of the SEPA zone, and if I do it inside of the same bank, it even appears there within < 5 minutes, i.e. potentially faster than BTC.

Just pointing this out because this crap is constantly mentioned as being true or an advantage while thousands of users get the annoying "this transaction is too new/large to transfer right now, would you like to PAY xxxx to transfer it" popup in their BTC clients every day..and in the meantime can SEPA wire stuff around freely.

It's still a valid point for us users outside the SEPA zone.

Justsomeforumuser

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Quote

instantly and freely transferable piece

1. Takes however long as the client needs to catch up with blocks to confirm+"peer review", thus not "instant".
2. Without "maturing" first, you are forced to pay small amounts to be allowed to transfer the BTC again. Later on from what I understand the fees are supposed to make up the mainstay of the incentive to keep mining after all BTC have been created.

I can wire real money for free without a fee inside of the SEPA zone, and if I do it inside of the same bank, it even appears there within < 5 minutes, i.e. potentially faster than BTC.

Just pointing this out because this crap is constantly mentioned as being true or an advantage while thousands of users get the annoying "this transaction is too new/large to transfer right now, would you like to PAY xxxx to transfer it" popup in their BTC clients every day..and in the meantime can SEPA wire stuff around freely.

benjamindees

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Quote from: hawks5999 on June 24, 2011, 01:29:24 AM

Quote from: FreeMoney on June 24, 2011, 01:14:55 AM

Is there anything that is worth more than someone is willing to pay?

Taxes

I can document, in explicit detail, the fact that I get negative worth from the taxes I pay.

So, try again.

Capitan

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Quote from: TiagoTiago on June 22, 2011, 05:44:31 PM

Would it be enough if a big enough number of people believe Bitcoins are worth X amount of USD, or just believing in the price isn't enough to sustain it? What about the future if enough people believe Bitcoins are gonna be worth at least X more USD in six months, just by having enough people like that using and talking about Bitcoins would the price go in that direction or more than that would be necessary?

You just described the mechanism by which all currencies get their value. According to your definition of "placebo money", the US Dollar, Japanese Yen, China Yuan, Euro, etc, are all placebo money.

interfect

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Quote from: Sjalq on June 23, 2011, 07:35:30 PM

Yes, it is placebo-money, but less so than other money, like the govt issued sort or gold.

I would say more so. A Bitcoin is a cryptographically secure, supply-limited, instantly and freely transferable piece of nothing. It's a symbol of value in its most abstract form.

hawks5999

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Quote from: FreeMoney on June 24, 2011, 01:14:55 AM

Is there anything that is worth more than someone is willing to pay?

Taxes

kjj

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Quote from: FreeMoney on June 24, 2011, 01:14:55 AM

Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

Which is what concerns me.

Is there anything that is worth more than someone is willing to pay?

A surprising number of people think so.

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

Which is what concerns me.

Is there anything that is worth more than someone is willing to pay?

Sjalq

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Yes, it is placebo-money, but less so than other money, like the govt issued sort or gold.

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

It defiantly doesn't work as a money if no one thinks it's a money. People think it is a money because it looks an awful lot like one. I guess that's the same with a sugar pill. I think it's fair to call it a placebo. But maybe not helpful since nothing can act as a money unless people think it is a money and anything that people treat as a money becomes a money.

hawks5999

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Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

If you make the coin in your signature out of gold or silver, someone will be willing to pay for it.
It would be interesting to see if 1 Silver bit coin for 1 BTC would raise prices of BTC to parity with silver quicker?

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Which is what concerns me. Who the hell is buying bitcoins for 30 dollars when in an hour they could be selling for 15 dollars? That is, I would like to buy low and sell high, but who the hell is buying high?

In an hour they could be selling for 45 dollars and might not drop back down to 30 for months or years. Nobody really knows what they'll do. If you're planning to hold them for years hoping they'll be worth thousands, does it really matter if you bought them for $15 or $30?

nosfera2

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Quote from: grue on June 22, 2011, 06:45:37 PM

Quote from: Kman54 on June 22, 2011, 06:40:55 PM

yes bitcoin has value because people believe it has value.

same with fiat money

And fashion, and Justin Bieber.

frutza

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TiagoTiago, what do you mean by "necessary"?

jacoder

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Everybody knows that robots loves their BTC.

yep, we do Wink

hugolp

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Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol

Quote from: grue on June 22, 2011, 06:45:37 PM

Quote from: Kman54 on June 22, 2011, 06:40:55 PM

yes bitcoin has value because people believe it has value.

same with fiat money

Actually no, its not the same with fiat money. Fiat money is imposed violently, usually by the governments, and that is why people use it. If people were given the choice of voluntarely choose their money I highly doubt the government money would survive. That is why they impose it violently.

epii

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Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 09:15:44 PM

Quote from: kjj on June 22, 2011, 09:06:55 PM

Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

Which is what concerns me. Who the hell is buying bitcoins for 30 dollars when in an hour they could be selling for 15 dollars? That is, I would like to buy low and sell high, but who the hell is buying high?

Someone that thinks that it will be higher later?

Then wouldn't they be buying at 15? to maximize their profits?

Because they're impatient, or unsure that it will ever drop to $15 again. There are plenty of people who were left wishing that they'd bought at $1, but if they wait for the price to go back down to $1, they could be waiting forever. Assuming the price will continue to rise more or less continuously (which seemed like a safe assumption just a couple weeks ago), it's better to buy late than never.

All assignment of value in the context of currency is a sort of "mass delusion". People often mistake for "real value" the many methods that can be used stabilize perceived value and lower the probability of the delusion wearing off:
- fiat (i.e. you must use a particular currency to pay your taxes)
- guarantees that one currency can be exchanged for another with a more stable perceived value (i.e. the gold standard)
- the fact that a particular currency is the basis of many businesses and easily exchanged for many products

Ultimately, #3 is the most potent, if the least talked about. This is what will stabilize the value of Bitcoin in the long run, and earn it legitimacy.

muyoso

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Quote from: kjj on June 22, 2011, 09:06:55 PM

Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

Which is what concerns me. Who the hell is buying bitcoins for 30 dollars when in an hour they could be selling for 15 dollars? That is, I would like to buy low and sell high, but who the hell is buying high?

Someone that thinks that it will be higher later?

Then wouldn't they be buying at 15? to maximize their profits?

TiagoTiago

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

We just need to convince enough people, and you'll be able to sell 1BTC for a hundred bucks before xmass

kjj

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Quote from: muyoso on June 22, 2011, 08:54:46 PM

Quote from: dodgrr on June 22, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

its only worth what someone's willing to pay for it Wink

Which is what concerns me. Who the hell is buying bitcoins for 30 dollars when in an hour they could be selling for 15 dollars? That is, I would like to buy low and sell high, but who the hell is buying high?

Someone that thinks that it will be higher later?

Topic: Is Bitcoin placebo-money? (Read 2826 times)