Is Bitcoin really still decentralized?? - page 5.

lenovop-70

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Quote from: Lauren Smith on December 12, 2019, 01:05:42 PM

I agree it is not decentralized as farr as mining is concerned and many people cannot take part due to capitalization of mass mining factories. The little guy has no chance. This was not the vision of bitcoin. Bitcoin was ment to bring profit on even the most basic pc. Of course someone will invent an asic just like people will invent bots to do manual tasks over and over. It would be great if anyone could just mone but so far we have no solution to it and even other coins that only use CPU there seems to be no profit.

Agreed with you my friend, little guy like me, privately, abviously dont have any chance here anymore, it is too hard to say it, but it is the fact happened now, oh i wonder bitcoin will rise and give me more chance like couple years last. im too emotional to say this, im sorry my friend Sad

Jalinayr

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I think yes because Bitcoin is working like before as of now so that many rich people can control the of it.

posi

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Quote from: Darker45 on December 15, 2019, 09:09:06 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on December 15, 2019, 03:21:10 AM

Hey
Well the thing is , in bitcoins there is just one rule
*The more you hold , the more control you have over the market.*
That seems reasonable too , also whales and everything they are gonna be there , firms and companies holding bitcoins and talking it out with each other to sway the market and make some profit , it happens , it's politics that people made here , not the bitcoins , therefore I think , it's not the bitcoins you need to worry about , it's the people.

This is correct. However, lest we assume that decentralization in Bitcoin means rich people can control over the market, huge mining farms can dictate on the network, in other words certain players can influence more on Bitcoin, let us remember that decentralization is not about all these things. It could also mean those but that is only after stretching decentralization a bit. Decentralization in Bitcoin is basically the lack of a central authority. There is decentralization because there is nothing in between transactions; everything is done on a peer-to-peer basis. There is decentralization because there is no central entity or authority that decides on its fate.

Youre both right. People somehow misunderstood the decentralization in nature of bitcoin which is the reason why some declared bitcoin to fail in the aspect of decentralization due to whales manipulation and decentralization simply mean having equal privilege but the higher holder or investor still have the control capability than others.

Darker45

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Quote from: fiulpro on December 15, 2019, 03:21:10 AM

Hey
Well the thing is , in bitcoins there is just one rule
*The more you hold , the more control you have over the market.*
That seems reasonable too , also whales and everything they are gonna be there , firms and companies holding bitcoins and talking it out with each other to sway the market and make some profit , it happens , it's politics that people made here , not the bitcoins , therefore I think , it's not the bitcoins you need to worry about , it's the people.

This is correct. However, lest we assume that decentralization in Bitcoin means rich people can control over the market, huge mining farms can dictate on the network, in other words certain players can influence more on Bitcoin, let us remember that decentralization is not about all these things. It could also mean those but that is only after stretching decentralization a bit. Decentralization in Bitcoin is basically the lack of a central authority. There is decentralization because there is nothing in between transactions; everything is done on a peer-to-peer basis. There is decentralization because there is no central entity or authority that decides on its fate.

aomakun

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Quote from: michellee on December 15, 2019, 02:37:24 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on December 15, 2019, 01:27:15 AM

Quote from: Bim abk on December 13, 2019, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on December 13, 2019, 09:16:57 AM

Market manipulation is inevitable at this time, cryptocurrency is a big market as I think which we could think that some influential individual would likely to show it's power. Above all, and even bitcoin was meant to have some manipulation but I keep believing that bitcoin still remains to it's decentralized form.

I also believe that bitcoin has a high decentralization nature but the market sometimes says different things, there are quite a lot of manipulations for the price. we must be careful of these price manipulations because those who can manipulate prices are big whales

Ther can easily manipulate the price but trying to manipulate the entire market seems to be impossible. But whom to get these benefits, of course not only the whales but also we are especially when the price went high and earn profits. May we condemn their actions but actually, we are so thankful that because of them (whales) the market remains strong.

I think the same as all of you. Although bitcoin is decentralized, it will not be a problem, and the manipulations for the price will not happen forever. There will be a real moment from traders that can move the price, and that will not depend on the whales. But yes, the whales can manipulate the market, but they cannot do it forever for their purposes. We can use the benefits by following their movements so we can make a profit too.

the whales also won't always succeed in price manipulation, I'm also sure about that. Price manipulation will not be as easy as we think, because truly pure market price movements will always be their challenge. but if you want to go with the flow we might be at risk because you need accuracy, because price manipulation will happen quickly

fiulpro

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Hey
Well the thing is , in bitcoins there is just one rule
*The more you hold , the more control you have over the market.*
That seems reasonable too , also whales and everything they are gonna be there , firms and companies holding bitcoins and talking it out with each other to sway the market and make some profit , it happens , it's politics that people made here , not the bitcoins , therefore I think , it's not the bitcoins you need to worry about , it's the people.

michellee

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Quote from: Distinctin on December 15, 2019, 01:27:15 AM

Quote from: Bim abk on December 13, 2019, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on December 13, 2019, 09:16:57 AM

Market manipulation is inevitable at this time, cryptocurrency is a big market as I think which we could think that some influential individual would likely to show it's power. Above all, and even bitcoin was meant to have some manipulation but I keep believing that bitcoin still remains to it's decentralized form.

I also believe that bitcoin has a high decentralization nature but the market sometimes says different things, there are quite a lot of manipulations for the price. we must be careful of these price manipulations because those who can manipulate prices are big whales

Ther can easily manipulate the price but trying to manipulate the entire market seems to be impossible. But whom to get these benefits, of course not only the whales but also we are especially when the price went high and earn profits. May we condemn their actions but actually, we are so thankful that because of them (whales) the market remains strong.

I think the same as all of you. Although bitcoin is decentralized, it will not be a problem, and the manipulations for the price will not happen forever. There will be a real moment from traders that can move the price, and that will not depend on the whales. But yes, the whales can manipulate the market, but they cannot do it forever for their purposes. We can use the benefits by following their movements so we can make a profit too.

bitcoindusts

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Quote from: Bitcoinislife09 on December 14, 2019, 02:44:21 AM

Quote from: satori1 on December 12, 2019, 06:15:48 AM

After the years in trading Bitcoin it came more and more clear to me that Bitcoin is technically not decentralized anymore... its mainly owned by huge mining farms or early adopters who are able to manipulate the market at will, many exchanges playing with Bitcoin and Altcoins by making fools out of the normal Joe who wants to enter the Crypto world, i know many here will think that you should be ready and get informed before taking any step into the crypto world, but does it not bother anyone that some people are enriching them self by kicking the crap out of your wallets??

Bitcoin Mining is dead unless you own a mining farm with the necessary hashrate, again only big companies having access to Bitcoin!!!

What is your thought about this??

I still have question about bitcoin being a decentralized system, we all know that bitcoin as a digital cash and it could send bitcoin to anyone using the miners which is the one that process the transaction who owns the blockchain if the transactions were all anonymous there could be someone who maintains the system of the bitcoin or is it just the bitcoin wallet that they need to maintain and just using bitcoin as an assets?

I think the transaction is not anonymous because anyone can trace it on the blockchain. Though I still believe Bitcoin is still decentralized even though the distribution is not proportional. Anyone can mine Bitcoin as long as they have good enough hashes to compete on the mining industry. Anyone can send Bitcoin without anyone interfering it as long as the tx fee is sufficient. I believe being decentralized and not proportional distribution is two different category.

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Quote from: Bim abk on December 13, 2019, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on December 13, 2019, 09:16:57 AM

Market manipulation is inevitable at this time, cryptocurrency is a big market as I think which we could think that some influential individual would likely to show it's power. Above all, and even bitcoin was meant to have some manipulation but I keep believing that bitcoin still remains to it's decentralized form.

I also believe that bitcoin has a high decentralization nature but the market sometimes says different things, there are quite a lot of manipulations for the price. we must be careful of these price manipulations because those who can manipulate prices are big whales

Ther can easily manipulate the price but trying to manipulate the entire market seems to be impossible. But whom to get these benefits, of course not only the whales but also we are especially when the price went high and earn profits. May we condemn their actions but actually, we are so thankful that because of them (whales) the market remains strong.

satori1

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Quote from: Eugenar on December 13, 2019, 06:13:03 AM

Quote from: Astvile on December 13, 2019, 01:52:20 AM

Miners does not own the bitcoin network.
Bitcoin is still decetralized what is currently centralized are exchange websites and the whole mining industry. Because there are people or group of people who owns various exchange and mining company. So totally the whole bitcoin network is still decentralized for sure.

It is just that, people, businesses, and projects to their best to make bitcoin a center for profits that is why it seems so centralized. But in fact, the way you hodl and store your bitcoin is a sign that bitcoin is still decentralized. This decentralization will just be taken out if you are to allow them to do so, especially if the freedom you have turns you out to invest your money and trade it to centralized exchanges where you don't have your private keys that solely make your account decentralized.

That's absolutely spot on! It's like exchanges and Big mining farms are able to get together and create a sort of conglomerate!

satori1

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Quote from: altcointalk14 on December 14, 2019, 03:32:52 AM

Quote from: Asmonist on December 13, 2019, 09:27:31 PM

I think the main concept of bitcoin is decentralization. For now, there are really many people acquiring and mining it. But of course the process of decentralization is still there, otherwise transactions will be more complex. Its about the fast and efficient service that is the goal for decentralization. Those huge miners are most likely have there own but mostly the process is still the same.

The beauty is that there is no single exchange nor there is a single mining farm that controls or manipulates bitcoin price. There are hundreds of such entities in the bitcoin ecosystem. That's why I think bitcoin is decentralized still in many ways. Even if somebody wants to set up his own mining rig there is no hurdle in that also.

I cant really agree with your view on this, as there are clear main players in the ecosystem and the biggest of them all is Bitmain, Anyone mining for profit in farms use their miners who are already outdated once they are sold to the public... Bitmain already uses miners that are far more powerful then the one used by conventional mining farms, its a joke, they proved it with ETH at that time when everyone believed that Ethereum was Asic resistant Grin

... They have dozens of mining farms across China and recently one in USA Texas, they do control a huge stack of the market believe it or not, they will get rid of mining farm competitors just wait an see!

satori1

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Quote from: aardvark15 on December 12, 2019, 09:22:47 AM

I think you certainly have a valid point. I was thinking the same thing about corporations and especially governments like China mining Bitcoins. I still think it’s technically decentralized because no one government controls Bitcoin and it’s still an open ledger, but mining is no longer something a regular individual can do anymore.

That's exactly what i mean, the main issue is when a company like Bitmain has the potential to take over 1/3 of the total hash-rate things become scarce, China alone has 65% of the hash-rate... it costs the average USA miner around $6K to mine 1 BTC with today's electricity prices, while in china it costs $3K for 1 Bitcoin as they use renewable energy and i dont know what else. If a single company can hold such an amount of Bitcoins that they can for example manipulate the BTC price in the Exchange than the decentralization does not make much sense anymore!

Which is the miner that will keep on mining if the price of BTC falls under $6K, the only one remaining are the one with the lowest electricity price to mine a BTC.

If they can manipulate the price of BTC due to the amount of BTC they own that things are technically not decentralized anymore!

BuNga_cute

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I still believe that bitcoin is still decentralized, because no one has been able to control bitcoin until now. Remember to manipulate prices does
not mean controlling bitcoin. And also bitcoin transparent. Everyone can see all the bitcoin transactions that are recorded on the network
blockchain. The last reason why bitcoin still decentralized because bitcoin is very safe because all bitcoin transactions cannot be changed. For
that reason bitcoin until now still decentralized.

crossabdd

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I slightly disagree with your intention. greed is not centralization. the owner of a large Bitcoin can't be said to be the center of control. maybe they can move the market. but can't change the bitcoin profile (network, number, algorithm, etc.) because when a person / company can control bitcoin from the inside. then it will be centralized. so, decentralization / centralization is not just about value. not about market movers. but full control over all about bitcoin. so I say Bitcoin remains decentralized.

shoreno

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Quote from: Bitcoinislife09 on December 14, 2019, 02:44:21 AM

I still have question about bitcoin being a decentralized system, we all know that bitcoin as a digital cash and it could send bitcoin to anyone using the miners which is the one that process the transaction who owns the blockchain if the transactions were all anonymous there could be someone who maintains the system of the bitcoin or is it just the bitcoin wallet that they need to maintain and just using bitcoin as an assets?

decentralized says it all . means no one controlls it .

yeah you are right that its only the wallet and the miners that do the rest of the job when we send or recieve our btc's .

btc is really decentralized , no question about that but other people arent contented on what btc has to offer but some of them says that they need btc to become centralized and become regulated , which is i think not good idea to me , idk why .

TRONTON

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Quote from: karanggatak on December 14, 2019, 03:28:52 AM

I think until now bitcoin has remained decentralized. although there are indeed groups of people or large whales who can manipulate the price of bitcoin by buying or selling bitcoin in large quantities but they do not fully control bitcoin. because bitcoin price fluctuations are also influenced by FUD news, FOMO and also small bitcoin traders who make sales or purchases I think also affect the bitcoin market. and bitcoin now has a large community so I don't think it's easy to control.

Bitcoin is still rooted in decentralization, but things change when most users make an effort to buy and sell through centralized exchange, so the effect of change lies in the medium, not the original system.

For prices that still appear manipulative, accompanied by fud and fomo, it still makes sense because great interest always has a speculative impact. A greater change will occur if the institution welcomes bitcoin with various intervention steps.

altcointalk14

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Quote from: Asmonist on December 13, 2019, 09:27:31 PM

I think the main concept of bitcoin is decentralization. For now, there are really many people acquiring and mining it. But of course the process of decentralization is still there, otherwise transactions will be more complex. Its about the fast and efficient service that is the goal for decentralization. Those huge miners are most likely have there own but mostly the process is still the same.

The beauty is that there is no single exchange nor there is a single mining farm that controls or manipulates bitcoin price. There are hundreds of such entities in the bitcoin ecosystem. That's why I think bitcoin is decentralized still in many ways. Even if somebody wants to set up his own mining rig there is no hurdle in that also.

karanggatak

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I think until now bitcoin has remained decentralized. although there are indeed groups of people or large whales who can manipulate the price of bitcoin by buying or selling bitcoin in large quantities but they do not fully control bitcoin. because bitcoin price fluctuations are also influenced by FUD news, FOMO and also small bitcoin traders who make sales or purchases I think also affect the bitcoin market. and bitcoin now has a large community so I don't think it's easy to control.

arimamib

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Quote from: Wintersoldier on December 14, 2019, 02:17:53 AM

Quote from: Asmonist on December 13, 2019, 09:27:31 PM

I think the main concept of bitcoin is decentralization. For now, there are really many people acquiring and mining it. But of course the process of decentralization is still there, otherwise transactions will be more complex. Its about the fast and efficient service that is the goal for decentralization. Those huge miners are most likely have there own but mostly the process is still the same.

I do really appreciate the blockchain and cryptocurrency projects that are focusing on creating a system for faster transaction but also, one thing to consider to fully achieve the perfect decentralization for me is to focus on enhancing the security features that they already have and to have a centralized standards on how to build it, as a result, the product or the cryptocurrency will still be decentralized but backed with a strong backbone to secure the funds and security of their users.

the decentralization of the project varies from project to project and I also appreciate projects that build decentralization efficiently outside of bitcoin. and so far I also still see that decentralization is still good in the bitcoin ecosystem, there are no third parties so far and all systems are structured.

Bitcoinislife09

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Quote from: satori1 on December 12, 2019, 06:15:48 AM

After the years in trading Bitcoin it came more and more clear to me that Bitcoin is technically not decentralized anymore... its mainly owned by huge mining farms or early adopters who are able to manipulate the market at will, many exchanges playing with Bitcoin and Altcoins by making fools out of the normal Joe who wants to enter the Crypto world, i know many here will think that you should be ready and get informed before taking any step into the crypto world, but does it not bother anyone that some people are enriching them self by kicking the crap out of your wallets??

Bitcoin Mining is dead unless you own a mining farm with the necessary hashrate, again only big companies having access to Bitcoin!!!

What is your thought about this??

I still have question about bitcoin being a decentralized system, we all know that bitcoin as a digital cash and it could send bitcoin to anyone using the miners which is the one that process the transaction who owns the blockchain if the transactions were all anonymous there could be someone who maintains the system of the bitcoin or is it just the bitcoin wallet that they need to maintain and just using bitcoin as an assets?

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