Is Bitcoin the way to fight corruption? Or is it the good way to launder money?

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: bitcoinvamp on January 04, 2018, 12:11:09 PM

I don't think bitcoin has anything to do with corruption as it is all part of the government sayings and there plan to demolish bitcoin at some point. But , saying about money laundering through bitcoin ,i think it has been widely used by people in different countries. As bitcoin is untraceable the people find it as a good way of laundering there money.

Bitcoin has really nothing do on fighting corruption infact it would rather add up the case of corruption due to its feature which is anonymous and untraceable.Same as you said that's why they do really plan to demolish it because they do know its capabilities and possible things to happen when people do have knowledge regarding into it.

Quote from: dokie987 on January 09, 2018, 08:13:33 AM

Bitcoin can go both. It depends on the one who use it. Bitcoin can be a way to fight corruption if they wanted to, but it may also used to money laundering.

Sad fact that people are entirely different on decision being made and bitcoin was just really a tool which is capable on doing such things.

dokie987

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Bitcoin can go both. It depends on the one who use it. Bitcoin can be a way to fight corruption if they wanted to, but it may also used to money laundering.

nemesis_

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I don't think that we can involve bitcoin with this "corruption" and such or even just connect it. As people uses this personally. Some government banned the use of bitcoin, so I don't think that it will help in fighting corruption. Also, I believe that if people wants to do something illegal they would always find ways. Even if the government will legalized the use of this and do it to avoid corruption, people who are greedy enough will do illegal things and corruption will take place. But maybe it will also depend on how we use this and what actions the government will do.

bitcoinvamp

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I don't think bitcoin has anything to do with corruption as it is all part of the government sayings and there plan to demolish bitcoin at some point. But , saying about money laundering through bitcoin ,i think it has been widely used by people in different countries. As bitcoin is untraceable the people find it as a good way of laundering there money.

selectaselectine

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I don't see the need to connect bitcoin with corruption. Corruption is done by a greedy person, meaning it's an action done by a person or group of people. Bitcoin won't be able to win against corruptuon because it has nothing to do with it.

lili song

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For me I see bitcoin is the way to fight corruption. But money launder I believe it can be happen, because bitcoin transactions government can control and can track the detail of the sender. But actually bitcoin is smart way to invest for the investors.
Bitcoin can make people life better, because is long term investment.

Gozie51

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Quote from: yojodojo21 on December 30, 2017, 11:40:30 PM

I choose "Yes"
Yes, If Bitcoin Will be used legally and not corruptly then Bitcoin can be The Way To Fight Corruption for Economy Progress Because Bitcoin can Help Every Individual of The Respective Country. And if Everybody Is Rich Through Bitcoin Then There will be no corruption. (hope so) we can be a cashless society buying Things in any merchants through crypto currency Transaction, that should Be transparent so that every Liquidation of Tax should be visible.

In my view, I do not see bitcoin extricating the phenomenon of corruption in human society. In fact, corruption is endemic in human life. It has been with human from inception of the world, that cheating has always trived.

Things like self aggrandizement and personal enrichment has always been and there is no correlation between bitcoin and eradicating of poverty.

Meanwhile, everyone can not be rich with the creation of bitcoin because, it is not everybody that get to be informed about bitcoin nor believe in it.

MisterPrada

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I'm iffy on if pushing the citizinry into the cashless society is a good idea from a tyrant perspective. Yeah, you'd know everything the people do with your money, but you also effectively make fiat the same thing as bitcoin in the average Joe's eyes, making bitcoin adoption alot easier. Especially if the only private or superior products are all accepting bitcoin.

I think Star Wars has a quote for this. Something about a tight fist and star systems leaking out.

yojodojo21

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I choose "Yes"
Yes, If Bitcoin Will be used legally and not corruptly then Bitcoin can be The Way To Fight Corruption for Economy Progress Because Bitcoin can Help Every Individual of The Respective Country. And if Everybody Is Rich Through Bitcoin Then There will be no corruption. (hope so) we can be a cashless society buying Things in any merchants through crypto currency Transaction, that should Be transparent so that every Liquidation of Tax should be visible.

Fatunad

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Quote from: AlexInTheOcean on December 30, 2017, 04:29:38 PM

It depends on how you apply it. I'm dreaming of using the blockchain for election, full transparency and legitimacy.

That would be a good option too but i do believe this thing would be prone on being manipulated or fraud votes. I dont know if a certain project would able to patch up the flaws on this kind of ideas but im hoping the same thing too. Going back to topic bitcoin isnt really avoided to be used on laundering money because it is anonymous which is the perfect recipe on hiding transactions and keeping out those corrupted money.

AlexInTheOcean

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It depends on how you apply it. I'm dreaming of using the blockchain for election, full transparency and legitimacy.

Samarkand

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Quote from: darkangel11 on December 29, 2017, 02:43:56 PM

...
I have no idea what vig is. The only thing that comes to mind is that insurance company from Austria...

I concede that you are right that most of the risks that are associated with trading
on Localbitcoins can be mitigated if you are cautios.

Vig is short for "vigorish", which is a term mainly used in reference to gambling or interest on loans.
In this context I wanted to express that you are paying a fee of a few % for trading P2P, while
a trade on an exchange like Bitstamp might only cost you 0.25 %. Meanwhile, many people on
Localbitcoins charge 10 % or more on top of the current exchange rate.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Zadicar on December 28, 2017, 02:47:39 PM

Quote from: ecnalubma on December 22, 2017, 07:34:24 PM

Quote from: carlfebz2 on December 17, 2017, 11:56:27 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on December 16, 2017, 01:04:59 PM

Quote from: carlfebz2 on December 15, 2017, 10:32:09 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on December 15, 2017, 07:57:27 AM

Bitcoin is not really anonymous, those who get involved in negative activities are caught immediately with the help of the blockchain. This time launderers and criminals think twice before they use bitcoin as system of payments. I guess They prefer other altcoins to secure their anonymity and maintain stealth status.

Its possible but not actually an easy job to do for sure and thinking off that those corrupt people will surely make the best possible move for them on not to be traced.The thing here is that they do able to deposit corrupted money by means of fiat exchanging to bitcoin which would really able for us to track up if someone would really enforce or investigate. Fighting corruption would be somehow hard specially if it already involve on online matters specially on anonymity it would really be a tough job for investigators.

We already know that bitcoin is not really anonymous. However, criminals or those corrupt thinks that it is the best way to used because its very easy but you can be followed and tracked in blockchain unless they do hide thorough TOR or mixing services. But the thing is once the money goes to a exchanges because you need it to convert it to FIAT then you can be caught. It will take time for investigator but they will if they decided to really hunt those money launderers. But as far as bitcoin fighting corruption? I don't think it applies to bitcoin. In addition, if criminals or money launderers wants to really hide their identity, there are coins out there that they can really used. (Monero, Zcash).

This would really be their problem which they would really be stuck on cashing out those cash for sure because if they would decide to withdraw on bulks then they would really need to go on KYC process which is really a risky thing for them but they can actually make withdraws on smaller ranges though but would really be a tiring thing for me. Bitcoin to fight corruption? I would rather believe on reverse thing which bitcoin can really be used on corruptions than on preventing it.

Additional to this I like blockchains mechanism, criminals are unlucky because blockchain is the permanent record of all things and cheaters should back off. Blockchain will surely put a lot of bad people to prison.

Even though all transactions are on public and can be seen by anyone but still cheaters and money launderers do have still ways or chance to erase their transactions trails by making use of mixers. One mixing or even twice would really give already on the anonymity that we do seek up. I don't know if its still traceable or not but I'm sure it would really takes time for someone to make such thing. Fighting corruption is either hard on bitcoin or even on fiat still.

I couldn't agree for more which is actually true regarding on this matter because a single use of mixers will make things changed on making your transaction to be more untraceable. Imagine how they do mix up address to give another new output and imagine what work need to be done even tracing a single address transaction.

ahmad21

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Quote from: VanceCrypto on October 02, 2017, 05:21:23 AM

In every society, corruption is a part of the economy. We hate it, because we know how it can negatively affect a country in long term. For those who do not really care about politics, you can read this article and imagine how corruption is going to mess up your children’s life and the life of the latter generations.

“Corruption affects us all. It threatens sustainable economic development, ethical values and justice; it destabilizes our society and endangers the rule of law. It undermines the institutions and values of our democracy. But because public policies and public resources are largely beneficial to poor people, it is they who suffer the harmful effects of corruption most grievously.

To be dependent on the government for housing, healthcare, education, security and welfare, makes the poor most vulnerable to corruption since it stalls service delivery. Delays in infrastructure development, poor building quality and layers of additional costs are all consequences of corruption.
Many acts of corruption deprive our citizens of their constitutional and their human rights.”

You can read more at:
http://www.corruptionwatch.org.za/learn-about-corruption/what-is-corruption/we-are-all-affected/

One of the reason I love BTCBitcoinBTC so much is the fact that this type of Blockchain-based currency, at first glance it’s just looked like an anti-corruptors currency for the people. BTCBitcoinBTC is secure, fast, low in fees and transparent.

But does BTCBitcoinBTC the REAL solution for anti-corruptor?

YES and NO.

Yes, the transparent part seems like a bad idea for someone who has the intension of having/doing questionable acts.

But the anonymous part, on the other hand seems like an even GREATER idea for those corruptors.

I love to listen to your opinion about this topic. Roll Eyes

Hail to the Blockchian

What I have understood is that people involved in bitcoin are really too shady. They want to remain anonymous and want to maintain anonymity of their funds too. So with advent of blockchain corruption would surely increase. As tracing out these rats would become even more difficult due to lack of identity. Even the so called transparency these days can be easily tackled using various mixers and blenders which will end your trail in such a way that even the best computer expert can't hide it. So I think blockchain gives a lot of advantage to the corrupt people and promotes bribery.

Aamir1

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Everything has 2 sides, one good and one bad. Now it depends on a person if how he wants to use that thing. Bitcoin is also like that. It wasn't created for any bad purposes, but we all know it can be used for evil things like any other currency or maybe even in a better way, but just because of that, we cannot say it helps grow corruption because it is us who let the corruption spread, not a currency or any asset.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: Samarkand on December 29, 2017, 02:14:26 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 27, 2017, 10:07:12 PM

...

No, you don't. There are many ways to buy your coins with cash. Localbitcoins and facebook are among them. ...

Selling on places like Localbitcoins or Facebook opens up a whole bunch of
potential dangers/disadvantages:

-getting robbed / kidnapped
-getting counterfeit bills (really good counterfeit bills are not easily distinguishable from real bills)
-making a deal with a law enforcement / tax authority officer
-hard to get rid of really large amounts
-you possibly have to pay vig, which will be more expensive than trading at an exchange like Bitstamp
...

Nevertheless, this might be an option if you take security seriously (e.g. meet in a bank and check
the bills for authenticity using a bank teller).

Most of those things that you're talking about can be mitigated with ease. You only need to possess the most basic wits and understanding of the society and law.
Getting robbed/kidnapped? Take a friend with you, meet in a crowded place, like a mall, restaurant, cafeteria, even a gas station as they have cameras there.
Counterfeit bills? Make the seller withdraw from an atm in your presence or go together to a bank. A bill that passes through the tellers hands + uv light is a good enough copy for you to be able to risk it. If they were fooled, typical store clerks will be for sure.
Law enforcement? Last time I checked selling BTC was legal and it also means selling BTC for cash is legal. You are required to pay taxes after the transaction, not before.
Large amounts? It's like with everything in quantity. If I tell you to sell 10 luxury cars you'll be struggling with it for weeks.
I have no idea what vig is. The only thing that comes to mind is that insurance company from Austria...

Samarkand

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Quote from: darkangel11 on December 27, 2017, 10:07:12 PM

...

No, you don't. There are many ways to buy your coins with cash. Localbitcoins and facebook are among them. ...

Selling on places like Localbitcoins or Facebook opens up a whole bunch of
potential dangers/disadvantages:

-getting robbed / kidnapped
-getting counterfeit bills (really good counterfeit bills are not easily distinguishable from real bills)
-making a deal with a law enforcement / tax authority officer
-hard to get rid of really large amounts
-you possibly have to pay vig, which will be more expensive than trading at an exchange like Bitstamp
...

Nevertheless, this might be an option if you take security seriously (e.g. meet in a bank and check
the bills for authenticity using a bank teller).

Zadicar

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Quote from: ecnalubma on December 22, 2017, 07:34:24 PM

Quote from: carlfebz2 on December 17, 2017, 11:56:27 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on December 16, 2017, 01:04:59 PM

Quote from: carlfebz2 on December 15, 2017, 10:32:09 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on December 15, 2017, 07:57:27 AM

Bitcoin is not really anonymous, those who get involved in negative activities are caught immediately with the help of the blockchain. This time launderers and criminals think twice before they use bitcoin as system of payments. I guess They prefer other altcoins to secure their anonymity and maintain stealth status.

Its possible but not actually an easy job to do for sure and thinking off that those corrupt people will surely make the best possible move for them on not to be traced.The thing here is that they do able to deposit corrupted money by means of fiat exchanging to bitcoin which would really able for us to track up if someone would really enforce or investigate. Fighting corruption would be somehow hard specially if it already involve on online matters specially on anonymity it would really be a tough job for investigators.

We already know that bitcoin is not really anonymous. However, criminals or those corrupt thinks that it is the best way to used because its very easy but you can be followed and tracked in blockchain unless they do hide thorough TOR or mixing services. But the thing is once the money goes to a exchanges because you need it to convert it to FIAT then you can be caught. It will take time for investigator but they will if they decided to really hunt those money launderers. But as far as bitcoin fighting corruption? I don't think it applies to bitcoin. In addition, if criminals or money launderers wants to really hide their identity, there are coins out there that they can really used. (Monero, Zcash).

This would really be their problem which they would really be stuck on cashing out those cash for sure because if they would decide to withdraw on bulks then they would really need to go on KYC process which is really a risky thing for them but they can actually make withdraws on smaller ranges though but would really be a tiring thing for me. Bitcoin to fight corruption? I would rather believe on reverse thing which bitcoin can really be used on corruptions than on preventing it.

Additional to this I like blockchains mechanism, criminals are unlucky because blockchain is the permanent record of all things and cheaters should back off. Blockchain will surely put a lot of bad people to prison.

Even though all transactions are on public and can be seen by anyone but still cheaters and money launderers do have still ways or chance to erase their transactions trails by making use of mixers. One mixing or even twice would really give already on the anonymity that we do seek up. I don't know if its still traceable or not but I'm sure it would really takes time for someone to make such thing. Fighting corruption is either hard on bitcoin or even on fiat still.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: Thanasis on December 27, 2017, 11:24:27 AM

Quote from: Rooster101 on December 27, 2017, 03:49:01 AM

The reason why some governments are setting up some cryptocurrency regulation in their country is to prevent any unlawful use of virtual currencies by some elements that deals with money laundering, drug trafficking and other illegal activities. Any corrupt officials can easily use the cryptocurrency to pursue whatever their plans.

Bitcoin may be a way to launder your money but it is highly risk,if you want to buy bitcoins you need to buy through the bank transactions so if you deposited your money into your bitcoins into bank then you will get caught. Tongue

But you can still launder your money if you can find a bitcoin trader on your local you just pay him as cash and you can buy bitcoins.

And bitcoin may leads to serious corruption because it is fully anonymous so no one can find who is having bitcoins so regulation is also important but is highly impossible to regulate the bitcoin also.

No, you don't. There are many ways to buy your coins with cash. Localbitcoins and facebook are among them. You don't have to do it yourself if you're a public person. You can always send a friend or a family member to do it for you. That's all you have to do when you have cash that you need to launder (a typical dirty money you were bribed with).
If you have been using BTC (selling illegal stuff) it becomes much easier, you just have to sell for fiat, move it to your bank account and pay taxes. That's it. You got some clean money that you can buy a house with.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Even if different government around the world choose to ban bitcoin, the technology behind bitcoin does not make btc a good platform to host any illegal activities like corruption or money laundering because the blockchain will always have the evidence on the public ledger which cant be taken down in case one tries to cover their tracks.

Topic: Is Bitcoin the way to fight corruption? Or is it the good way to launder money? (Read 1718 times)