Is Cryptsy more evidence that it is impossible to really secure crypto?

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: xHire on January 16, 2016, 07:27:19 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on January 16, 2016, 04:33:19 AM

This issue once again highlights the need for decentralised exchange. I urge everyone to pay attention to this project, as, if all goes to plan, it should help lessen the impact of failing exchanges in future.

Just FYI, Coincer (topic) does (in principle) the same thing, but does not tie itself to any particular coin. Instead, it builds its own P2P network to carry out necessary communication between trading parties and building the market. Anyway, good to see alternatives. :c)

I'll be sure to keep an eye on it. Added the thread to my watchlist, so it will remind me to look at it when there's an update. The more people working on stuff like this, the more secure the future of crypto gets. It's a shame most people get so tied to the price speculating and trading part, they miss the projects like this that could make trading much safer in future.

mayax

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Quote from: seedtrue on January 16, 2016, 12:42:58 PM

Sometimes it seems to me that trust based on time of operation is opposite in the BTC world opposed to other companies. Most companies people can say "They have been around a long time, we can probably trust them". But with Bitcoin it is the opposite. "Oh, they were around before Bitcoin got popular, we better use caution with them".

good point. it was the same with MTgox. I think the next one is Bitfinex or BTC-e.

seedtrue

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Sometimes it seems to me that trust based on time of operation is opposite in the BTC world opposed to other companies. Most companies people can say "They have been around a long time, we can probably trust them". But with Bitcoin it is the opposite. "Oh, they were around before Bitcoin got popular, we better use caution with them".

LFC_Bitcoin

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Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

It just further shows how important it is to be the sole owner of your private keys and therefore bitcoin's. But we all know this any way, it's just some continue to ignore it.

mayax

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Quote from: Pab on January 15, 2016, 08:23:12 PM

Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

I have big doubts that Cryptsy has been hacked.Hacked in 2014 like thayare saying It next Mintpal or CryptoRush,Lets make easy money,create exchange and than cry My exchange has been hacked

Exchanges are not regulated,it is still wild west

Regulations means a lot of money invested in financial license and it's not worth. you need many employees, AML, KYC, audits, accounting, real office. it's very hard to make a such business in a legal way.

And IF you do it, it's not worth because the revenue it's not big at all . the BTC market is 90% black market. the people who are using the black market doesn't want verification and other shits that a regulated exchanger must do. they want something like BTC-e(shady, no due diligence).

If most of the exchangers would become regulated(with financial license), BTC will worth almost 0 because most of its users will use other e-currencies.

elizabethqueen

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so fa,there was some exchange that can do their job with really nice,lets see poloniex and bittrex,that two my favorite exchange have good responsibility to keep any altcoin,i never have a serious problem there,and i hope it can hold long time,so i think have good exchange is not a pip dream

xHire

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Quote from: DooMAD on January 16, 2016, 04:33:19 AM

This issue once again highlights the need for decentralised exchange. I urge everyone to pay attention to this project, as, if all goes to plan, it should help lessen the impact of failing exchanges in future.

Just FYI, Coincer (topic) does (in principle) the same thing, but does not tie itself to any particular coin. Instead, it builds its own P2P network to carry out necessary communication between trading parties and building the market. Anyway, good to see alternatives. :c)

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

This issue once again highlights the need for decentralised exchange. I urge everyone to pay attention to this project, as, if all goes to plan, it should help lessen the impact of failing exchanges in future.

Pab

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Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

I have big doubts that Cryptsy has been hacked.Hacked in 2014 like thayare saying It next Mintpal or CryptoRush,Lets make easy money,create exchange and than cry My exchange has been hacked

Exchanges are not regulated,it is still wild west

Jordan23

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An exchange is an exchange not a cryptocoin.

Singlebyte

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Quote from: Amph on January 15, 2016, 03:51:16 AM

no it's an evidence, that there is really no competitive exchange owner out there, they treat the cryptoscene, with too much negligence

they need to separate altcoin(scam coin) from bitcoin, when they do cold storage thing, altcoin must be put in a separted environment

i would ever do a virutal machine for every new alt, to feel really secure, this was the case for cryptsy

for bitstamp, they had problem with email/2fa, so again heavy incompetence there

I was going to post my two-cents, but after reading the second post down, it looks like Amph said exactly what I was thinking. Enough said...

NorrisK

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What this theft shows, if the story that cryptsy is telling is true, is that altcoins should not be trusted as easily as is done now.

Much more strict check ups of the code are required and new coins basically won't stand a chance anymore.

_Miracle

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Do due diligence

No. It is evidence that this exchange has failed to secure its assets (or has not been honest).

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: n2004al on January 15, 2016, 02:34:54 PM

Quote from: monsanto on January 15, 2016, 02:17:23 PM

Quote from: n2004al on January 15, 2016, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

There are to many other exchanges (more big, more important or less big and less important than Cryptsy) that are not hacked never. Why such importance to this exchange. Much more banks have been object of thieves and never is put in discussion their existence. Why be put in discussion the security of crypto exchanges as a Institution where is changed and traded another kind of currency but yet is money? Why must be different this case by the case of the stolen banks? Have seen various threads today which treat this matter and absolutely all treat this case with fatalism. One for bitcoin, another one for the exchanges another third for all the cryptos and so on. Why this point of view?

We don't really know if other exchanges have been hacked or not. Cryptsy was hacked a long time ago and nobody knew for sure until now. I've seen similar rumors about much bigger exchanges like OKcoin. As for banks, yeah they get robbed but usually not of everything. Are you really claiming that an equivalent percentage of fiat has been stolen from banks as has been stolen from crypto exchanges since 2009?

If we will use your kind of reasoning I must tell that since I have not heard about the steal of every bank that doesn't mean that is not stolen every of those. So if we don't have news about the steal of every then bank every bank may have been stolen. Or even if we haven't hear nothing about the steal of every home that doesn't mean that is not stolen every home. I can go further of such kind of examples but the above may give the full idea of what can happen if everyone use your way of reasoning. I'm sorry but I don't use such kind of use of my mind and my reasoning is totally different from yours.

Then as for the amount stolen from the banks I'm again sorry, but even without having your accurate data (seems that you are very informed about the amount stolen on all the banks around the world since the beginning of their existence as specifies the word "everything") I am sure that is much, much more higher than all the value of all the amount of all the cryptos in circulation until this moment and not only much, much bigger that the value of the stolen cryptos since 2009. This is an conviction created using the kind of reasoning made from you in the case of the possibility of hacked exchanges based on the hear or not hear about their hackering.

You might have a point if a large percentage of banks had been hacked and then gone out of business losing customer funds, but alas, this isn't so. Also, they usually don't continue to operate as fractional reserves (see mt gox and cryptsy which continued to accept deposits after being "hacked"). Sorry I know this doesn't fit into you're narrative so must be ignored.

Actually "everything" was referring to the crypto exchanges that have lost everything in the sense that they lost enough to put them out of business. I guess Gox and Cryptsy etc, wasn't as bad as I thought and you are right and they will be returning our money soon. Good luck with that. And if you read my post you will see I used the word "percentage," which you then conveniently ignored. Comparing total amount is kind of ridiculous when when bitcoin market cap is 1/5th the size of Tanzania's GDP. Using your logic every shitcoin ever invented is more secure than depositing your money in a bank. Again, good luck with that.

n2004al

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Quote from: monsanto on January 15, 2016, 02:17:23 PM

Quote from: n2004al on January 15, 2016, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

There are to many other exchanges (more big, more important or less big and less important than Cryptsy) that are not hacked never. Why such importance to this exchange. Much more banks have been object of thieves and never is put in discussion their existence. Why be put in discussion the security of crypto exchanges as a Institution where is changed and traded another kind of currency but yet is money? Why must be different this case by the case of the stolen banks? Have seen various threads today which treat this matter and absolutely all treat this case with fatalism. One for bitcoin, another one for the exchanges another third for all the cryptos and so on. Why this point of view?

We don't really know if other exchanges have been hacked or not. Cryptsy was hacked a long time ago and nobody knew for sure until now. I've seen similar rumors about much bigger exchanges like OKcoin. As for banks, yeah they get robbed but usually not of everything. Are you really claiming that an equivalent percentage of fiat has been stolen from banks as has been stolen from crypto exchanges since 2009?

If we will use your kind of reasoning I must tell that since I have not heard about the steal of every bank that doesn't mean that is not stolen every of those. So if we don't have news about the steal of every then bank every bank may have been stolen. Or even if we haven't hear nothing about the steal of every home that doesn't mean that is not stolen every home. I can go further of such kind of examples but the above may give the full idea of what can happen if everyone use your way of reasoning. I'm sorry but I don't use such kind of use of my mind and my reasoning is totally different from yours.

Then as for the amount stolen from the banks I'm again sorry, but even without having your accurate data (seems that you are very informed about the amount stolen on all the banks around the world since the beginning of their existence as specifies the word "everything") I am sure that is much, much more higher than all the value of all the amount of all the cryptos in circulation until this moment and not only much, much bigger that the value of the stolen cryptos since 2009. This is an conviction created using the kind of reasoning made from you in the case of the possibility of hacked exchanges based on the hear or not hear about their hackering.

Amph

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Quote from: Zenixin on January 15, 2016, 01:55:05 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinpro on January 15, 2016, 04:03:55 AM

Now they have declared bankruptcy they are liquidating some coin

waited for a nice price too,

Does that mean I can withdraw some coins from the exchange or they will sell my coins and pay back users proportionally?

no, they are going offline pretty soon, all coins that are not retrievable are gone i think

the alert was there since their first problem with withdrawals

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: n2004al on January 15, 2016, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: Fontas Returns on January 15, 2016, 02:55:53 AM

The bitcoin bandwagon brigade has always preached how secure crypto is but it seems like every exchange has gotten hacked. Is securing crypto a pipe dream? Is this what the BTC experiment has taught us?

There are to many other exchanges (more big, more important or less big and less important than Cryptsy) that are not hacked never. Why such importance to this exchange. Much more banks have been object of thieves and never is put in discussion their existence. Why be put in discussion the security of crypto exchanges as a Institution where is changed and traded another kind of currency but yet is money? Why must be different this case by the case of the stolen banks? Have seen various threads today which treat this matter and absolutely all treat this case with fatalism. One for bitcoin, another one for the exchanges another third for all the cryptos and so on. Why this point of view?

We don't really know if other exchanges have been hacked or not. Cryptsy was hacked a long time ago and nobody knew for sure until now. I've seen similar rumors about much bigger exchanges like OKcoin. As for banks, yeah they get robbed but usually not of everything. Are you really claiming that an equivalent percentage of fiat has been stolen from banks as has been stolen from crypto exchanges since 2009?

Zenixin

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MR06Q8ZM3194

Quote from: Bitcoinpro on January 15, 2016, 04:03:55 AM

Now they have declared bankruptcy they are liquidating some coin

waited for a nice price too,

Does that mean I can withdraw some coins from the exchange or they will sell my coins and pay back users proportionally?

xHire

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Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on January 15, 2016, 01:13:24 PM

What recourse is there when I am dead and my family can't find where I put the trezor?

Maybe there are solutions but that's what I like about paper wallets. [...]

I want to make sure it isn't too hard for family to recover the funds if a meteorite squishes my house tomorrow (which would destroy a trezor too).

You can write down the seed on a piece of paper. This way it has the same quality as a paper wallet in terms of security. Both papers will probably contain instructions on how to redeem the funds so I think I can call it a solution. ;c) The difference is that the seed is "dynamic". You change its balance without touching it. At every moment it contains all your coins.

AliceWonderMiscreations

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Quote from: xHire on January 15, 2016, 11:07:08 AM

Quote from: BellaBitBit on January 15, 2016, 10:53:36 AM

good information, some of this is new to me and advanced. I will start googling. I have a spare laptop that I could dedicate to this.

Or use a hardware wallet (like Trezor) – not only it's safer, but the need for only one paper backup is a really nice thing (the same applies to Electrum). Before Trezor I used to use Electrum on an off-line laptop for signing and had a watch-only wallet on-line (although transfering transactions back and forth via USB was a bit tiring ;c)).

What recourse is there when a trezor fails and the company is no more?

What recourse is there when I am dead and my family can't find where I put the trezor?

Maybe there are solutions but that's what I like about paper wallets. Keep the private key in a Safe Deposit Box. I can print them ahead of time and put them in the SDB ahead of time, they just have no value until I pay to the public address which I keep printed local (and signed with my name so I know it is one of my cold addresses)

I want to make sure it isn't too hard for family to recover the funds if a meteorite squishes my house tomorrow (which would destroy a trezor too).

Topic: Is Cryptsy more evidence that it is impossible to really secure crypto? (Read 2003 times)