Is ECB Preparing to Ban Bitcoin? Top Analyst Warns of Harsh Taxes, Crackdown

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Quote from: Lucius on October 22, 2024, 05:01:49 AM

Quote from: d5000 on October 21, 2024, 12:47:10 PM

~snip~
Schaaf and Bindseil fortunately are not "the ECB", although they are ECB officials. They seem to adopt a minority position in ECB. However, one should not simply ignore Bitcoin critics, and the best strategy is simply to "prove them wrong".

People who work for the ECB should have adequate education and be intelligent, and this report seems to have been written by two clowns on some drugs. Good luck to anyone who tries to explain to such people that they are wrong, because if they had a little common sense they wouldn't write such nonsense.

Not that I disagree with the fact that they should not be ignored, but there is a saying that a fish stinks from the head, not the tail - and we know that the head of the ECB is a person who has a completely negative opinion about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general.

Sooner or later, they will realize that they lack the knowledge to implement such protocol. It is only a matter of time before they will gain good grasp of this technology. But they actually need to educate themselves so they are not seen as ignorants in this market.
We don't need to "prove them wrong" because the facts are already available over the net. It is just that, people should be open-mind in understanding advancements in the digital market.

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Quote from: d5000 on October 21, 2024, 12:47:10 PM

~snip~
Schaaf and Bindseil fortunately are not "the ECB", although they are ECB officials. They seem to adopt a minority position in ECB. However, one should not simply ignore Bitcoin critics, and the best strategy is simply to "prove them wrong".

People who work for the ECB should have adequate education and be intelligent, and this report seems to have been written by two clowns on some drugs. Good luck to anyone who tries to explain to such people that they are wrong, because if they had a little common sense they wouldn't write such nonsense.

Not that I disagree with the fact that they should not be ignored, but there is a saying that a fish stinks from the head, not the tail - and we know that the head of the ECB is a person who has a completely negative opinion about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general.

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Once again an un enforceable ban that turns your brightest minds into criminals over night. Or maybe it's just a ploy to keep normal people out of the space as it becomes even more valuable.

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Quote from: GIF-JOBS on October 19, 2024, 04:06:36 AM

Fears about the ECB Bitcoin ban have swelled since a controversial report’s release. Analyst Tuur Demeester warns that the report’s negative portrayal of Bitcoin could justify harsh ECB Bitcoin regulation, including potential bans. The recent European Central Bank paper, “Distributional Consequences of Bitcoin,” has undoubtedly created controversy among most cryptocurrency advocates.

Demeester thinks this is the most aggressive attitude toward Bitcoin central authorities showed. For him, it is a kind of “declaration of war”. The framing could open the door to restrictive legislation, such as severe taxes or outright bans on Bitcoin ownership.

ECB Bitcoin Ban Possible, Analyst Cites ‘Luddite’ Argument

news link: https://coingape.com/is-ecb-preparing-to-ban-bitcoin-top-analyst-warns-of-harsh-taxes-crackdown/

Europe has always been against Bitcoin. Especially the central bank (ECB). To see them "ban" Bitcoin, would be of no surprise to many. It will be done in vain, considering that Bitcoin is decentralized. China tried to do it, only to fail in the long run. Massive taxes will only force people to move away from the bloc into other countries with a friendly regulatory environment (UAE, El Salvador, etc). There's nothing governments can do to stop it. It's already too late for that. Either Europe embraces the revolution, or gets left behind in the dust.

Back then, I've used to hear rumors that the EU was going to make self-custody of BTC "illegal". Nothing happened, so I guess they've changed their mind after pressure from the public. Hope they keep their arms open to Bitcoin for their own benefit. Aren't there "crypto lobbyists" in the region? With money, anything's possible.

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If ECB decides a crackdown on Bitcoin then the countries in European Union have no choice but to follow the same. You can surely expect more agressive regulatory actions around the continent which will result in a lot of crypto related businesses moving out completely to a new base. Countries like Dubai or Singapore might get benefitted out of this.

But a blanket ban is highly unlikely to happen. Not only it's hard to implement but it also not helpful for the government when it comes to revenue generation.

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Ah, Mr. Schaaf and Mr. Bindseil, again. Does anybody remember "Bitcoin's last stand" from 2022, where they argue that Bitcoin's price would never recover from the FTX crash?

So they now shifted to the opposite opinion: they complain that Bitcoin's price increase could have negative consequences Wink

The original paper is to be found here: The distributional consequences of Bitcoin. Its "findings" seem to be completely trivial, and they ignore that early Bitcoin adopters are often not rich people.

Schaaf and Bindseil fortunately are not "the ECB", although they are ECB officials. They seem to adopt a minority position in ECB. However, one should not simply ignore Bitcoin critics, and the best strategy is simply to "prove them wrong".

(PS: I think bbc.reporter's thread on the subject is more on point than this one.)

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Quote from: GIF-JOBS on October 19, 2024, 04:06:36 AM

Fears about the ECB Bitcoin ban have swelled since a controversial report’s release. Analyst Tuur Demeester warns that the report’s negative portrayal of Bitcoin could justify harsh ECB Bitcoin regulation, including potential bans. The recent European Central Bank paper, “Distributional Consequences of Bitcoin,” has undoubtedly created controversy among most cryptocurrency advocates.

Demeester thinks this is the most aggressive attitude toward Bitcoin central authorities showed. For him, it is a kind of “declaration of war”. The framing could open the door to restrictive legislation, such as severe taxes or outright bans on Bitcoin ownership.

ECB Bitcoin Ban Possible, Analyst Cites ‘Luddite’ Argument

news link: https://coingape.com/is-ecb-preparing-to-ban-bitcoin-top-analyst-warns-of-harsh-taxes-crackdown/

Yesterday I read this ECB report. The position of ECB officials seemed very naive and infantile to me.

Any technological revolution leads to a redistribution of world wealth and the emergence of new rich people. People who ignore technological innovations do not become richer, and sometimes even worsen their financial situation.

It is enough to recall the rapid development of social networks (web 2.0) and the emergence of a huge number of bloggers who have received huge incomes in a short time. Are ECB officials also unhappy with this state of affairs? Perhaps they personally want to compensate for the financial losses of traditional media employees? Currently, many people are monetizing the new technological revolution - the development of artificial intelligence. Why do ECB officials not propose to ban AI?

For some reason, ECB officials believe that Bitcoin is to blame for everything, and not central banks and governments that produce uncontrolled emission of fiat money and financially support inefficient companies. Where is the logic here?

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Quote from: PrivacyG on October 20, 2024, 04:56:50 PM

It honestly sounds like they are desperate about more people becoming Rich through Bitcoin so they are trying to crack down on them.

If you look at it from that angle, it might even make sense - because the more people there are who are not dependent (or are less dependent) on the existing financial system, the harder it is to control them. Some would say that the balance between those at the top of the pyramid and those in the middle and at the bottom should always be maintained - and Bitcoin is certainly not a factor that serves as a stabilizer but as something that can disturb the balance.

Quote from: PrivacyG on October 20, 2024, 04:56:50 PM

If they are this scared about Bitcoin then it is time to ban every thing that is scarce too. Including Limited Editions of all sorts of B S clothing brands that are bought by scalpers and re sold for hundreds of percent more in Profit.

In fact. How about ban Inflation. People used to buy things much cheaper many years ago when I was not even born. How about punish them for it, why did they have to pay less for stuff than I do! Was it a plan of the Elderly to gain superior economic position all along?

Ridiculous as per usual. No thing new to see. Simply Institutions doing their 'best'.

I'm used to all kinds of nonsense considering that my country joined the EU not so long ago and we had to adjust a lot of things to EU regulations, and some things were really illogical. I often wonder if those people in the EU Parliament and all other institutions understand each other or if they have bad translators considering that they go public with such ideas.

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I don't know why they do this but banning Bitcoin is a very bad decision. Bitcoin is the future and billion-dollar businesses are built in this niche. By banning Bitcoin or raising taxes, they are getting rid of lots of IT talents and businesses that will generate billions of dollars revenue but this will benefit small countries who offer 0 taxes and other benefits to these businesses. I don't know why Europe wants to do that. Shouldn't they be aiming to retain talents and businesses that build the future?
Their argument of early adopters benefiting the most and late adopters being offended is nonsense.

Quote from: tbct_mt2 on October 20, 2024, 12:08:14 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on October 20, 2024, 12:31:58 AM

So bitcoin price starts rising up after a long period and all of a sudden we see the same old FUDs start coming out again? I don't believe in coincidence...

It's not coincidence and FUD are prepared, written to be very ready for release at right time of needing FUD. This happens many times, so coincidence basically rarely to happen, and if things repeat many times, no reason to think it's coincidence.

I'm also sure that FUDs are prepared. Bitcoin was rising and then suddenly China hit it with its Bitcoin mining ban and almost immediately Elon Musk tweeted that Tesla won't accept Bitcoin payments because Bitcoin miners use lots of fossil fuel for Bitcoin mining and transaction confirmation, which is the worst for the environment. Then the price went down. When the price went very down, then a sudden rumour of Amazon planning to accept Bitcoin pumped the price again.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 19, 2024, 04:59:44 AM

Quote

The ECB publication criticizes how Bitcoin fares in wealth distribution. The very early adopters benefit from appreciation in its value at the cost of later adopters. In this respect, the report claims that all such value growth causes a widening wealth gap. Also, early investors can gain a superior economic position.

In contrast, there could be little Bitcoin supply left for new investors, and entry would be expensive. This line of argument, however, deviates from earlier criticisms. These have often targeted the volatile nature of Bitcoin and its potential use in criminal activities.

Their arguments remind me of all those who often cry on the forum about spilled milk because they didn't buy BTC on time and now they think the system is unfair because some did it and they didn't. They obviously don't mind the fact that some people bought gold for $1000 an ounce and today sell it for $2500 an ounce, or that some people bought shares of a company for $100 and today sell them for dozens of times more.

It honestly sounds like they are desperate about more people becoming Rich through Bitcoin so they are trying to crack down on them.

If they are this scared about Bitcoin then it is time to ban every thing that is scarce too. Including Limited Editions of all sorts of B S clothing brands that are bought by scalpers and re sold for hundreds of percent more in Profit.

In fact. How about ban Inflation. People used to buy things much cheaper many years ago when I was not even born. How about punish them for it, why did they have to pay less for stuff than I do! Was it a plan of the Elderly to gain superior economic position all along?

Ridiculous as per usual. No thing new to see. Simply Institutions doing their 'best'.

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It is just funny reading the article, the ECB almost sound butthurt that BTC is decentralized and they cannot control it how they want, nor print or manipulate it in favor of their masters. Their argument of inequality in wealth distribution is baseless, people who buy assets early enough often make more profit than investors that buy later, but we all know that they will do anything to attack BTC and discourage people from using it.

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 20, 2024, 12:31:58 AM

So bitcoin price starts rising up after a long period and all of a sudden we see the same old FUDs start coming out again? I don't believe in coincidence...

It's not coincidence and FUD are prepared, written to be very ready for release at right time of needing FUD. This happens many times, so coincidence basically rarely to happen, and if things repeat many times, no reason to think it's coincidence.

Quote

In any case I have to point out that just because someone wrote an article saying some nonsense about Bitcoin most of which are repetition of old propaganda (like energy consumption) that doesn't mean ECB is preparing for a ban.

Energy consumption is another FUD type against Bitcoin.
Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument can help to enlighten people who are new in this market and are fearful about this FUD.

Quote

At the same time, we know that the Western governments have always been increasing their surveillance and crackdown on anything Bitcoin related for a very long time now. In other words it is an ongoing thing, not a new ban!

They can announce of ban, then announce of unban, many times like China and this governmental FUD type is not new, not coincidence too.

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 20, 2024, 12:31:58 AM

So bitcoin price starts rising up after a long period and all of a sudden we see the same old FUDs start coming out again? I don't believe in coincidence...

It seems to me that someone put the news on the air with the intention of spreading FUD, but it is more than obvious that no one is too interested in such news, especially when it comes to the EU market, which is not too inclined to invest in cryptocurrencies anyway.

Quote from: pooya87 on October 20, 2024, 12:31:58 AM

In any case I have to point out that just because someone wrote an article saying some nonsense about Bitcoin most of which are repetition of old propaganda (like energy consumption) that doesn't mean ECB is preparing for a ban.
At the same time, we know that the Western governments have always been increasing their surveillance and crackdown on anything Bitcoin related for a very long time now. In other words it is an ongoing thing, not a new ban!

Exactly, and when you look back 5 years, all those EU bureaucrats who see the enemy in BTC are actually going around in circles and always saying the same stupid things and trying to fight against an "enemy" that is not really that. It reminds me a bit of the communist era, when the communists always fought against internal and external enemies, even if they had no one to fight against because they had already either killed everyone or locked them in prison.

I think that the ECB basically just wants to suppress BTC as a currency as much as possible, while trading is not too much of a problem. This is something that exists in countries such as Thailand, Turkey, Vietnam and some say Nigeria, and it will obviously spread more and more around the world - because "they" are most afraid of what Bitcoin represents as a decentralized currency, but trading with it and taxation it is not something they are against.

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This is definitely a worrying development for the crypto community. Painting Bitcoin in a negative light doesn't bode well for future regulations. An outright ban seems unlikely, but harsh taxes or restrictions could definitely put a damper on things. Hopefully, the ECB takes a more balanced approach and focuses on regulation that fosters innovation instead of stifling it.

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I read that some bankers don't like bitcoin. Is this something new?

ECB has some powers, but at the end each EU country still has its own laws. So I don't think they can do more than excessive taxation.
A ban would be impossible, since I think that legally it's between Apple stocks and Monopoly money, of which neither could be banned.

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As far as I understand the ECB does not make a direct "declaration of war" on Bitcoin but, rather, calls for increased regulation in view of financial stability issues, environmental impact, and the use of bitcoin for illegal actions. From its part, the European Central Bank underlined the risks of energy-intensive mining processes involved in the production of Bitcoin and the volatility of its price, which-as far as they are concerned-makes it unreliable as a store of value.

That said, outright bans in the near term do not appear likely. It would seem that more will be done to regulate Bitcoin's role within the EU, with the ECB still considering its implication on energy security and financial crime, some speculate possible restrictions by 2025. If tougher regulation does come along the way, Bitcoin has shown it can survive some amount of crackdown from regulators in the past, and all this may mean enhanced oversight rather than a blanket ban. Not everyone has the same story to tell of Bitcoin's failure as a form of currency, seeing how it is being integrated into the mainstream with ETFs and institutional acceptance.

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A central bank being hostile towards Bitcoin? Is this something we've never seen before? I don't remember any central bank around the world being positive and friendly to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. This guy isn't saying anything new in his article.
The European Central Bank has been more or less anti-crypto since the first years of crypto being noticed by the public.
By the way, central banks cannot impose taxes over crypto. Only the governments can impose taxes, but some governments are listening to the opinions of the central bankers. Anyway, it seems very convenient that such FUD is being spread, when there's a small price pump and BTC hit sixty eight thousand dollars. The FUDsters are about to attack. Grin

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So bitcoin price starts rising up after a long period and all of a sudden we see the same old FUDs start coming out again? I don't believe in coincidence...

In any case I have to point out that just because someone wrote an article saying some nonsense about Bitcoin most of which are repetition of old propaganda (like energy consumption) that doesn't mean ECB is preparing for a ban.
At the same time, we know that the Western governments have always been increasing their surveillance and crackdown on anything Bitcoin related for a very long time now. In other words it is an ongoing thing, not a new ban!

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Quote from: Sanitough on October 19, 2024, 05:43:30 AM

After reading the article, I think the most likely scenario is that they’ll ban "Bitcoin mining" in the country. But it doesn’t seem like they’ll ban Bitcoin itself. In China, for example, both mining and trading are banned, but if the EU only bans mining and still allows trading, then yeah, it might be a bit of bad news, but overall, it’s not too bad for everyone.

If in case they will indeed ban crypto mining, we know for sure that other countries are very open to these miners. They can always find other places to continue their business. Just like when China did such action, miners just relocate and look for other cheaper places.

Quote from: MeGold666 on October 19, 2024, 04:56:59 AM

In summary, they don't like Bitcoin because they earn less money with their banks.

Their argument:

The wealth distribution is not fair because early adopters had it cheaper.
So, gold is not fair as well? What a cruel world!

Existential threat to central banks, risks to financial stability.
What financial stability? Fiat has proven to be the source of most financial crashes.

We live in a free market, if I want I will use carrots for trading.

Bottomline, the decision still lies on your hands. Whether you will opt for fiat or crypto or any other assets, the finality will be on you. Should not consider other assets because that's not yours for you to think about. Think of your own financial status so you won't be confused on how to decide which best suits your financial needs.

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Banks always feign ignorance on how other financial assets work and give the most bullshit arguments to support restricting or banning alternative currencies.

Quote from: Lucius on October 19, 2024, 04:59:44 AM

Their arguments remind me of all those who often cry on the forum about spilled milk because they didn't buy BTC on time and now they think the system is unfair because some did it and they didn't.

Everyone is a genius in hindsight. In reality, lots of people were aware of Bitcoin and did not spare it a second thought, and out of those who were not aware of it, I'll wager that more than 90% of them would have sold when they did their first 100% ROI or even sooner only to buy again at a much later date when it is more expensive or go all in on altcoins chasing the next big ICO.

Topic: Is ECB Preparing to Ban Bitcoin? Top Analyst Warns of Harsh Taxes, Crackdown (Read 356 times)