Is forum reputation enough to influence mixers?

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

Is the forum that powerful to change the business model of any business I don't think so, mixers will always be mixers, casinos will always be casinos and exchange will always be exchange, and only the regulators can change the business model of a platform but never a forum, I don't think we have one case that it happens.
They still have the search engine and darknet for these mixers.

Bitcointalk is just one and not the only one where platforms can advertise their platform the internet is so huge that platforms can meet potential clients, and many people are still not aware of Bitcointalk, even though they are Bitcoin investors.

CryptSafe

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Mixers support privacy and that is the major aim of Crypto and Bitcoin where by a clients Identity is protected by not allowing any trace to their transactions. This is the same reasons too government agencies are after mixers because they feel mixers are supporting illegal activities which would warrant scrutiny to ascertain the originality and end result of whatever funds coming in and going out.

As you have asked OP, I believe too there are other means by which or through which mixers can do their adverts and promotions. Other platforms are ready and willing to accepting mixers to operate on their platforms because as a matter of fact, mixers are the wave makers and from looks, they attract traffic to platforms they operate on and if I am not mistaken, mixers are good contenders in the industry.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

its the users that might change their ways. if we are not exposed to mixers, we may just be moving our coins to privacy tokens like XMR or Zcash. the forum will still be bitcointalk nothing will change but only the coins they will use.

it's been proven that the government couldn't break XMR. they hired someone if i remember but XMR continues its reign. but maybe the mixers will also advertise somewhere there are plenty of crypto forums this time. some are project-specific.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

My answer is, Never!

M*xers have their objectives that are not straightforward, and the mode of operation will always land them in the black book of the governments. They are to increase the privacy and anonymity of Bitcoin in a bid to make a transaction untraceable, there is no way evil doers will not be bringing business to them. Even if they would be doing this with the core mind of Bitcoin itself, what about those who patronise them?

Meanwhile, Bitcointalk is not the only place they can advertise their service, they will go elsewhere and will continue to advertise and operate. So, Bitcointalk is not enough to flush them out, but it is enough to keep us out of the trouble they can bring to us.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on December 04, 2023, 03:41:07 PM

I read @GeorgeJohn comment on this subject, he holds the opinion that mixers are mostly used by criminals. It’s surprising to me that someone who’s been in this space for years would think in such a way, bear in mind that the same thing has been said of Bitcoin over the years.

Talking now about central mixers, saying that they are central and that whoever manages these services is the one who determines how to use them. They can be managed by the government (or parties ready to cooperate with the government) and break the link, but they will know everything about you.
some decentralized solutions such as CoinJoin, Whirlpool, JoinMarket, or central solutions based on decentralized networks such as P2P BTC --> XRP --> BTC

Even governments do not consider these mixtures illegal, but there is legislation that will be issued after several months that may consider all of these methods illegal.

SatoPrincess

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I don’t see mixers making any changes to how they operate. Adopting kyc is not a option, the purpose of a mixer is to conceal any links between the bitcoins and the identity of the owner. Bitcoin mixers are supposedly the solution to the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin. I read @GeorgeJohn comment on this subject, he holds the opinion that mixers are mostly used by criminals. It’s surprising to me that someone who’s been in this space for years would think in such a way, bear in mind that the same thing has been said of Bitcoin over the years. The government used the media to spread propaganda that Bitcoin is only used by drug dealers, traffickers, fraudsters and all the worst kinds of people.

Mixers offer a service that attracts people from both side of the coin…good and bad. There are bitcoiners who use mixers just to severe any connections to their addresses for privacy reasons. Bitcoin transactions are recorded publicly and anyone who knows my bitcoin address can monitor and track my transactions. This alone is enough reason to employ the services of merits. Simply shuffling your coins through a couple of address would not break the link to the parent address.

After mixers, what next? Will privacy coins be the next target the government will go after?

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If mixers would change way they mix coins, then they would lose whole it's purpose. People who use mixers want to stay anonymous and in many cases wash their dirty money. These things obviously isn't acceptable for governments. If mixers would introduce things like KYC or similar shit, it wouldn't be mixer anymore.
I think that nothing won't change except that mixers lost place to advertise. Governments will continue to chase mixers and probably we will see more mixers getting seized.

Quote from: Solosanz on December 03, 2023, 11:54:39 PM

If the mixer not earn as much as before when they were still in this forum: they might change their project or rebrand to new one into Coinjoin or P2P/Swap exchange.

I think that you overestimate power of Bitcointalk and how much it affects mixers. Forum for them was more just a place to advertise and gain reputation. But I'm wondering how many Bitcointalk members were active users of mixers. I think that main part of mixer users isn't here.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

...do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

Even if mixers find a different modus operandi, I think they will still be found out. Those hunting down mixers also have criminally minded individuals among them that can decode any disguise. You know that thing they say in our local parlance that which makes the skunk stink is in its blood, not outward.

Talking about forum reputation, I think mixing firms are more likely to take their businesses out of here to other fora which will entertain them. It's not as if they're going to shutdown.

target

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The Bitcoin Adnetworks I guess would accommodate them this is if they are allowed also. But they may find a way to develop wallets instead just like the wasabi just to be able to advertise in the forum otherwise they may move to other crypto communities or forums where crypto is massively used like the hacksforum.

Anywhere today even in the business forum, crypto is being discussed though so it's just a matter of time before the advertisers will eventually move on.

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This forum is not just an ideal marketing space for them, it is also to gain trust. You know that this forum has more established members with good technical backgrounds than other forum users.
There may be a lot of advertising space out there, but I doubt if a mixer could make it big without including this forum in their journey.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

The forum is a place to discuss about things and that includes mixers. The stance that the administration here faces mixing services with may influence the way they market their services in the forum but it is unrealistic to think that forum policies will influence them on how they function. After all, there is a huge world outside this forum which influences these services way more because it part of their customer base.

Mixers are out of this forum from the coming year, no use shedding tears about it.

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Quote from: Coyster on December 04, 2023, 08:29:57 AM

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 06:34:49 AM

let them involve for KYC verification, many coins we mix that worth million dollars all are stealing funds and that's while they only look for privacy.

So you believe that only people who steal funds seek privacy, that is a ridiculous thing to say. You fail to understand something here, how can you use a platform to seek privacy, but lose the same privacy from the beginning when you pass KYC.

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 06:34:49 AM

the privacy we are talking about, as cryptocurrency chief, from your understanding do you think everything about cryptocurrency transactions and about mixers we claim that they are into privacy transactions is real..if whatever we do with all this mixers is private so while is that FBI still track and also know any transactions of this large amount been done in this particular mixing platform.

The websites of mixers isn't a secret and it is possible for blockchain analysis corporations to link an address belonging to a mixer or to know when a coin was mixed, but what mixers do is to obfuscate the source of your coins, and blockchain analysis finds it very difficult to link the inputs to the outputs, and many times what they basically do is "guesswork", that's why they use centralized exchanges to confiscate mixed coins even when the user wasn't involved in any criminal activity.

What do you think is objective of any mixer, the aim of a mixer is to a coin without been traceable,and mainly people use mixer to mix a coin they from stealing, out of hundreds percent people that makes use of a mixer seventy five [75] percent of them is into money laundering and scamming, so people that mix a genius coin is few people, in which I can not give the statistics, I'm not disputing the fact that you are not right from your perspective, but I want you to understand that they use mixer for more illegal than the legal..so while do you think that law enforcement agencies come after chipmixer and sinbad? And what crime do you think they committed.

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 06:34:49 AM

let them involve for KYC verification, many coins we mix that worth million dollars all are stealing funds and that's while they only look for privacy.

So you believe that only people who steal funds seek privacy, that is a ridiculous thing to say. You fail to understand something here, how can you use a platform to seek privacy, but lose the same privacy from the beginning when you pass KYC.

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 06:34:49 AM

the privacy we are talking about, as cryptocurrency chief, from your understanding do you think everything about cryptocurrency transactions and about mixers we claim that they are into privacy transactions is real..if whatever we do with all this mixers is private so while is that FBI still track and also know any transactions of this large amount been done in this particular mixing platform.

The websites of mixers isn't a secret and it is possible for blockchain analysis corporations to link an address belonging to a mixer or to know when a coin was mixed, but what mixers do is to obfuscate the source of your coins, and blockchain analysis finds it very difficult to link the inputs to the outputs, and many times what they basically do is "guesswork", that's why they use centralized exchanges to confiscate mixed coins even when the user wasn't involved in any criminal activity.

mindrust

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

A crypto mixer is a crypto mixer. Nobody can change this fact. The biggest problem is that they don't do KYC which is essential to any crypto mixing business because people mix their coins to stay anonymous. The thing is, governments don't like that a bit. They want to know about every crypto user in existence. What they are buying, what they are selling, how much they are holding etc.

Non-KYC Casinos used to act like mixers too but those days are long gone because all of them have KYC in their ToS now.

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Quote from: Solosanz on December 03, 2023, 11:54:39 PM

If the mixer not earn as much as before when they were still in this forum: they might change their project or rebrand to new one into Coinjoin or P2P/Swap exchange.

I see from the mixer representative's statement that they will not change their vision from the beginning, so they say they will not change the beginning of the mixer to P2P / SWAP or similar, of course this is only one that I see while the others have not given any response. - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63266936

Quote from: Solosanz on December 03, 2023, 11:54:39 PM

If the mixer earn as much as before: nothing will affect them, they might promote using other ways.
So the question is, does the mixer make a lot money by promoting their project in this forum? we will see it later.

Yes as it is, with the Sin***d case the funds coming into their service are increasing which means this indicates that the forum is important for them to keep advertising on their own project.

Quote from: PureMixerio on December 04, 2023, 05:56:25 AM

Since after this incident, the amount of funds coming into our service has increased.

But I'm sure there are other ways not necessarily on forums to advertise their mixer services, maybe they haven't found the right platform like bitcointalk, that's all.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

Yes.
They are not stupid. There are a thousand and more ways for mixers to go about with their adverts some in very subtle ways and others in newer and less suspicious ways. My stance is that mixers are not bad in itself but the bad elements using them gives them the bad reputation.

They'll change the way they mix their coins and how they tell people about what they do.

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Quote from: Coyster on December 04, 2023, 05:52:50 AM

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 05:43:31 AM

The answer is yes, they can redress with some certain transactions, some of the mixing companies do some certain knowingly and some transact unknowingly too, but when government pressure come in they don't have a cogent reason to defend themselves.

What do you mean by "redress with some certain transactions", are you insinuating that mixers, which by the way are privacy tools should scrutinize addresses and transactions before deciding who they are going to allow to mix their coins in their platform, how are they then a privacy tool if they do that, that defeats the purpose of a mixer.

Only that everyone consider a mixer a privacy, I know that if KYC should done in mixer they will no be any problem of seizing their website always, the privacy we are talking about, as cryptocurrency chief, from your understanding do you think everything about cryptocurrency transactions and about mixers we claim that they are into privacy transactions is real..if whatever we do with all this mixers is private so while is that FBI still track and also know any transactions of this large amount been done in this particular mixing platform. So noting is secret with mixer since is a technology..if they want to function and last, let them involve for KYC verification, many coins we mix that worth million dollars all are stealing funds and that's while they only look for privacy.

examplens

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I don't think the mixers will change much just to adapt to the nonsensical conditions on this forum. A service that has been working for years, and in the name of which there is a word that indicates mixing, will certainly not ignore the previous efforts and move from the beginning as a new brand.
In addition, they have enough money to advertise on other channels, they will certainly find other ways to reach clients.

I'm more concerned about Bitcointalk and where decisions like this will take us.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

If I understand correctly what you mean, then my question would be, is there any other way a mixer can mix coins that it won't involve hiding the traces of where the coins came from and where it is going?
If anything will utter this, then it's no longer a mixer, and I guess people will not want to pay for a service that a normal crypto wallet does for absolutely free of charge.

And to directly answer your question now, the reputation of this forum is definitely a good influence on mixers, that is possibly why we see alot of them promoting their services here. But then, I don't think there is any other way to mix coins they can switch or change to for them to be given the green light from the government, as well as this forum, anything they do now that utters how they mix coins maybe likely destroy their real purpose, which is to make coins untraceable.

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 05:43:31 AM

The answer is yes, they can redress with some certain transactions, some of the mixing companies do some certain knowingly and some transact unknowingly too, but when government pressure come in they don't have a cogent reason to defend themselves.

What do you mean by "redress with some certain transactions", are you insinuating that mixers, which by the way are privacy tools should scrutinize addresses and transactions before deciding who they are going to allow to mix their coins in their platform, how are they then a privacy tool if they do that, that defeats the purpose of a mixer.

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 05:43:31 AM

and secondly not all the mixing companies that government is after, they are after the ones they detected that they are into money laundering

The government is indirectly after the Bitcoin, they do not want anybody to be able to use Bitcoin privately. Very soon their agenda of "clean" and "dirty" Bitcoins would be so strong that Bitcoins fungibility would take a huge hit.

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 04, 2023, 05:43:31 AM

look at mixin, they are also a branch of mixers but government is not after them because they have no find any faults of money laundering with them.

Are you talking about "mixin network"? They are not a mixer if you do not know, but what they managed to do was lose over $200m of people's money because they kept the keys in the cloud.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

The answer is yes, they can redress with some certain transactions, some of the mixing companies do some certain things knowingly and also some transact unknowingly too, but when government pressure come in they don't have a cogent reason to defend themselves, so this pressure of law enforcement agencies can make some of the mixing companies to be extremely careful if their intension is to participate in money laundering.

What a forum is avoiding is the reputation of bitcointalk not a reputation of any mixer, mixers is someone business or a joint business anybody can use mixer if you want really make use of mixers, the instructions is nobody to promote mixers in this platform, if you want promote you can look for elsewhere to promote them, and secondly not all the mixing companies that government is after, they are after the ones they detected that they are into money laundering, look at mixin, they are also a branch of mixers but government is not after them because they have no find any faults of money laundering with them.

hugeblack

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There are various options, and even Google will advertise these services without problems, but the problem, in my opinion, lies in the payments method. They will need a bank account to make payments, and it is easy to track them down or move to dark web forums, and then hackers may find it difficult to use a central service that can sell their data in exchange for More decentralized solutions.
The forum is the most appropriate place to announce but it will not be the only one.

Learn Bitcoin

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BitcoinTalk is not the only market from where they get visitors. Indeed, this is one of the places where many Bitcoiners belong. Some mixers won't change their brand and will continue advertising outside Bitcointalk. Some of them may rebrand and come back to the forum. We never know what is going to happen. But mixers will be banned, and we are sure about it.

However, I cannot convince myself that they will rebrand or change how they use their service because BitcoinTalk censors them. If they change the system, they won't remain as mixers anymore.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

there is no way to change the way the mixer works to be more government friendly.
what happens is that mixers won't advertise on forums, but there are still other places for them to continue to innovate in offering their services. of course, this is for mixers that have not been phased out by the government.
even for those that have been discontinued, they can simply start with a new business name and other means of advertising.

Solosanz

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If the mixer not earn as much as before when they were still in this forum: they might change their project or rebrand to new one into Coinjoin or P2P/Swap exchange.

If the mixer earn as much as before: nothing will affect them, they might promote using other ways.

So the question is, does the mixer make a lot money by promoting their project in this forum? we will see it later.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

I can assure you that users on this forum have zero power to affect anything outside this forums door. Absolutely nothing. Cheesy

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on December 03, 2023, 05:31:46 PM

Mixers are just going to get a little more innovative and find different ways to advertise. There's a ton of dirty money out there that apparently is worth risking prison over. The forum isn't the only place to advertise.

Quote from: robelneo on December 03, 2023, 05:42:57 PM

The forum is an advertising platform and just one of the advertising platforms...

They will find other places to advertise for sure. They would prefer to continue on this one because it is the largest Bitcoin forum and the one founded by Satoshi but at the end of the day there is a lot of money at stake and they will move their advertising elsewhere.

Quote from: Coyster on December 03, 2023, 05:44:25 PM

How can they change the way they mix their coins, their "job" is to obfuscate the source of your coins and they are definitely not going to request for KYC before mixing, because that defeats the purpose of a mixer and thus nobody is going to use that service. Mind you that mixers aren't doing anything inherently wrong, i am surprised that majority of users here aren't seeing the crackdown on mixers as an attack on Bitcoin, but instead that mixers are the problem. Undecided

Right. Mixers will continue to work as they do now until there is legislation that prohibits them, which between the slowness of the administration and the steps that the laws have to follow to be approved can take years.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

How can they change the way they mix their coins, their "job" is to obfuscate the source of your coins and they are definitely not going to request for KYC before mixing, because that defeats the purpose of a mixer and thus nobody is going to use that service. Mind you that mixers aren't doing anything inherently wrong, i am surprised that majority of users here aren't seeing the crackdown on mixers as an attack on Bitcoin, but instead that mixers are the problem. Undecided

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

The forum is an advertising platform and just one of the advertising platforms, it's very rare for a platform to change its model so it can be accommodated by an advertising platform, in the first place they are not created for any platform but for the market they serve, they are a mixer so they are created for people who use a mixer, it's the advertising platform that should change their stance.

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By changing the way of mixing, what do you mean? Isn't it still mixing, which the Government will continue to hate and ban?

The Bitcointalk forum is not the only place they can advertise from. Not a very similar topic, but you can read through the replies (Where the mixers will promote their projects?

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

How do you think they can change the way they mix the coins? They dont have much of an option. Mixing coins is their core business, and that part will never be able to comply with government requirements. Unless you think they should do some sort of KYC verification of their users or something?

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Mixers are just going to get a little more innovative and find different ways to advertise. There's a ton of dirty money out there that apparently is worth risking prison over. The forum isn't the only place to advertise.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on December 03, 2023, 05:26:10 PM

Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

It will not. If this forum is the only place that those mixers get more exposure and attract more traffic, then it's going to be a little challenge for them since they will be ban from the forum but will not make them to stop.

There's a saying that when one door closes, another will open. So, definitely they will find another way to advertise their service.

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Since mixers will be soon be rejected on the forum due to the heat they are bringing from the government, do you think that the reputation of the forum and the rejection of these mixers from the forum will be enough to force them to change the way they mix their coins?

Topic: Is forum reputation enough to influence mixers? (Read 391 times)