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Topic: Is Gavin Andresen Sincere when he says he cares deeply about privacy in Bitcoin? - page 2. (Read 3975 times)

legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 1313

The good thing is that zerocoin can be added later to bitcoin once released and tested. Privacy and anonymity are extremely important.  Coinjoin, dark wallet etc are all parts of the puzzle.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
I would like to say yes but time alone will tell...
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 251
COINECT
Zerocoin wasn't implemented in the first place because it simply wasn't ready. The new Zerocoin hasn't even released any code publicly yet. It's too early to judge whether or not it will make it into Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007

If coins are tainted by virtue of being used by a client which performs privacy related operations, and if retailers refuse them (because, say, there is a government mandate to honor the tainting authority's output), then I'm using the client which does not.


I can imagine a Coin Tainting Authority (CTA) in some dystopian future--initially implemented to blacklist the bounty of some great crime--that slowly grows more and more prejudiced.  I can see how such a system could arise.  

But how would this tainting authority discriminate coinjoin transactions of untainted coins where the inputs are controlled by a single entity, from coinjoin transactions where the inputs have multiple owners?  (see: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249)  Stopping this legitimate need for privacy is a more difficult proposition--both technically and politically---than the CTA declaring the coins at 1IStole1BillionDollars398dj as black-listed.      

In any case, I expect any credible "tainting" efforts to be several years away, if they happen at all (I personally think blacklisting/tainting will not work for technical reasons).  And, in the absence of a truly one-world totalitarian government, there will always be some untaint-for-a-fee mechanism: for were not control and profits from money-laundering what motivated our hypothetical CTA to over-reach in the first place?
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
Better clients will get adopted by the majority of the network ... you are essentially concerned with a centralisation of the software development (and it could be a valid one). But if it proves to be a long term problem the ecosystem will react accordingly in an emergent way.

E.g. if you are given the choice between free client software that includes privacy tools and free client software that doesn't, which will you choose to install?

If coins are tainted by virtue of being used by a client which performs privacy related operations, and if retailers refuse them (because, say, there is a government mandate to honor the tainting authority's output), then I'm using the client which does not.

(Of course I'll also be spending all my BTC and switching over to an alt which is more robust, but that's just me.)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
Better clients will get adopted by the majority of the network ... you are essentially concerned with a centralisation of the software development (and it could be a valid one). But if it proves to be a long term problem the ecosystem will react accordingly in an emergent way.

E.g. if you are given the choice between free client software that includes privacy tools and free client software that doesn't, which will you choose to install?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
Have you looked into CoinJoin?: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249  This is already implemented in the Blockchain.info webwallet.

In general, I feel people's fear of "privacy loss" has more to do with their lack of understanding of the existing bitcoin protocol (partly due to insufficient tools/wallets to easily implement better privacy by default) than any deficiency of bitcoin. 

Sometimes you want addresses and transactions to be public and easily traceable, other times you don't.  Bitcoin allows for both. 
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
I really fear for the long term viability of Bitcoin and the abilities of vindictive governments to harass people if these anonymity features aren't implemented.

Ditto.

Future Bitcoin services need to be run as if they are illegal enterprises, like Silk Road, even if what they are doing is apparently legal.

Why:
  • Laws change.
  • Regulations are vague and open-ended, and it's probably impossible to operate a business without accidentally violating one.
  • Even if you do manage to operate without violating any rule law enforcement agencies do not always limit themselves to the letter of the law when deciding to begin an enforcement action.
  • Governments are not the only threats to a successful business. Non-governmental organized crime is almost equally capable of extortion.

The solution is to run all services in the darknet, not tied to any physical location or legal jurisdiction, and without any explicit connection to a real-life identity.

In order to reduce the risk of the operator running away with all the coins customers should start using Bitcoin like it was intended and only get involved with zero-trust business models instead of giving their money to companies that blindly emulate old paradigms.
member
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
In this video around 4:05 Gavin Andresen says that he does care deeply about privacy.

I'm really worried because it's been nearly a year now.  I don't hear anything from the core developers that they're going to implement something concrete to ensure bitcoin's anonymity.

I hear about Zerocoin's developers saying that the Bitcoin developers were unwilling to modify the source code and add anonymity and so Zerocoin will now become an alt coin.

I get really nervous when I read articles like this or talks like this which highlight the extreme dangers that can be imposed by world governments without anonymity.

I don't know, guys, I want to believe Gavin Andresen, but I'm really worried that the Bitcoin core developers will choose the easy path and not implement any additional anonymity features in Bitcoin.  I really fear for the long term viability of Bitcoin and the abilities of vindictive governments to harass people if these anonymity features aren't implemented.
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