Is it an illusion that bitcoin is decentralized?

Etherion

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Quote from: sunlitit654 on April 07, 2018, 02:36:12 AM

Backdoor will mostly affect the miners first. So, I’m sure they won’t take the chance. Besides, there's plenty logic that suggests this ‘decentralization is real, not any illusion. Appreciate your doubt though.

Yes I doubt. Bitmain might not want to pee in there lemonade but nothing stops the China government or their Central banks to force Bitmain to do that and drink it through there nose. Shocked

Just think Edward Snowden and the NSA. If the China government gets prompted by the People's Bank of China to damage Bitcoin the loss of one company might outway the greater perceived thread. Cry

Which is the easiest, a social call to Jihan Wu and Micree Zhan or getting Microsoft,Google,Apple etc to build in backdoors for the NSA.

sunlitit654

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Backdoor will mostly affect the miners first. So, I’m sure they won’t take the chance. Besides, there’re plenty logic that suggests this ‘decentralization is real, not any illusion. Appreciate your doubt though.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the asic miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing concensus as they will.

imagine you are running a business, let me give you a simple example that you understand. lets say you have a lemonade stand on your front lawn. will you pee in it to increase the amount of what you are selling?

an ASIC manufacturer putting an intentional backdoor in their product to "force consensus" is like peeing in your lemonade, it will kill your business and can get you (or your daddy since you are underage) arrested for fraud.

Quote

Bitcoin core is a small group of developers that dictate the future functions.

if you don't like their decisions, you can create a fork from the source code which has always been open source and call that bitcoin with your decisions. if you can get enough people to support you and gain the majority support your code will become bitcoin.

bitcoin cash guys tried and failed.

Aandosq1

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Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the asic miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing concensus as they will.

Bitcoin core is a small group of developers that dictate the future functions.

Both these makes my worried that bitcoin is not decentralized at all but it is merely an illusion.

Bitcoin is really decentralized but what you are referring to is not on bitcoin itself but on the monopoly on mining. Therefore we can say that bitcoin is definitely decentralized but its mining is monopolized by some few.

ratnawide

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this is one of the uses and advantages of the blockchain system. with a blockchain system all crypto currency can be decentralized transparently can not be controlled by someone

Fenixsfeather

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Quote from: 1Referee on April 05, 2018, 10:03:39 AM

Bitmain still enjoys the major share in that aspect, but that will dramatically change in the coming years, especially with how more players are looking to claim their share of the market. Intel and Samsung are the most open about it currently, but we don't know what other giants are already doing it behind the scenes.

I agree with your opinion, market of ASICs will expand, because we can see a demand for it. Big companies: Intel, AMD, Bitmain and others interested in growth in this area. So, Bitmain's monopoly on the market can not last long, I hope. This will strengthen decentralization of mining across the whole world.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 02:07:10 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 05, 2018, 01:47:29 AM

Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the ASIC miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing consensus as they will.

Do not worry. Bitcoin is decentralized because there is no single point of failure.

But if Bitmain has a backdoor to control all their miners and they have more than 51% of all hash power under there control surly that is a point of failure? All that Chain government needs to do is give Wu Jihan Founder and Director of Bitmain an instruction to kill bitcoin and it will be done.

No, the Core developers, with the support of the community, would then have to act and make a move towards the "nuclear option", changing the mining algorithm, and "killing" Bitmain's hardware.

If Bitmain started acting badly, it would surely be very easy to get the whole community together and do a user activated hard fork.

1Referee

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Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 09:41:15 AM

Assuming they have some way of hijacking all there own ASIC's which is highly probable.

Bitmain still enjoys the major share in that aspect, but that will dramatically change in the coming years, especially with how more players are looking to claim their share of the market. Intel and Samsung are the most open about it currently, but we don't know what other giants are already doing it behind the scenes. Bitmain was probably thinking to continue ruling this market with iron fist for many more years, but these days are slowly fading away. It actually surprised me that it took so long before we have seen new players enter the market. If they jumped in sooner, Bitmain wouldn't be where it stands today, but better late than never I guess. I can't wait to see the Bitmain empire shrink in terms of their market share. After that it will no longer be Bitmain, but Bitsecond, or Bitthird.

Etherion

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Quote from: Babyrica0226 on April 05, 2018, 09:03:31 AM

Quote from: waitforme on April 05, 2018, 02:41:03 AM

The Blockchain platform can help you believe that Bitcoin is decentralized, that it is not in everyone's hands or somebody. Every Bitcoin user has the same rights. Any organization or individual do not bind the Blockchain platform.

Yes I do agreed with your opinion or statement, that's why its called decentralized because of the blockchain, correct me If I am wrong with my thoughts.

Ok so the blockchain is decentralized, The code development is not decentralized in my view. AKA bitcoin core development team.... The mining power or consensus mechanism is also no longer decentralized as Bitmain has majority share. Assuming they have some way of hijacking all there own ASIC's which is highly probable.

Babyrica0226

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Quote from: waitforme on April 05, 2018, 02:41:03 AM

The Blockchain platform can help you believe that Bitcoin is decentralized, that it is not in everyone's hands or somebody. Every Bitcoin user has the same rights. Any organization or individual do not bind the Blockchain platform.

Yes I do agreed with your opinion or statement, that's why its called decentralized because of the blockchain, correct me If I am wrong with my thoughts.

fonenumba

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Quote from: S4roZa on April 05, 2018, 03:13:35 AM

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, for example in the bitcoin world there is no centralized entity that prints money, but money is printed by users. This is what causes bitcoin to emerge as a decentralized system.

Yes its true that bitcoin now is decentralized , but what will be if goverments will regulate it and will make so strong laws how to use bitcoin and contribute tokens many of tokens will be centralized Sad

S4roZa

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Bitcoin is completely decentralized, for example in the bitcoin world there is no centralized entity that prints money, but money is printed by users. This is what causes bitcoin to emerge as a decentralized system.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the asic miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing concensus as they will.

Bitcoin core is a small group of developers that dictate the future functions.

Both these makes my worried that bitcoin is not decentralized at all but it is merely an illusion.

jes it is,

its not just an illusion its a fact, you can observe. the delussion bitcoin is decentral is currently just used for marketing purposes.

people however will get used to centralised cryptocurrencies.

the question will then be what are those people that control that cryptocurrency doing. what are the people supporting by accepting that particular cryptocurrency with their work

and in the case of bitcoin it would be just the waste of ressources. thats not a good image to be accepted globally either in the environmental consciousness west, or the poor developing world they all will then oppose bitcoin for its character.

bitcoin will lose its current impression that its humanist, and only serves noble goals. however it was once helping those. but later it will lose them.

Ctn

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Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the asic miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing concensus as they will.

Bitcoin core is a small group of developers that dictate the future functions.

Both these makes my worried that bitcoin is not decentralized at all but it is merely an illusion.

If they act that way then they will call for their own destruction and nothing else. I mean people will never trust this operation and we could end up compromising everything. Both bitcoin existence and the mining operations. The bitcoin existence will be in hands of these manufacturer as they will be controlling it. But have you considered about the scenario where if people understand that they are being controlled then they could just plug out the miners and leave the manufacturer unconnected. Grin

However, on serious front I dont think that any manufacturer will do any ridiculous thing like this. If its all about the money then they have already filled up their Swiss accounts and they dont need anymore. Roll Eyes

Etherion

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I relay like BTC and I am very excited about lightning. But I now see the one flaw that can destroy BTC. I am not sure what can be done. Forking BTC is clearly not the option.

waitforme

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The Blockchain platform can help you believe that Bitcoin is decentralized, that it is not in everyone's hands or somebody. Every Bitcoin user has the same rights. Any organization or individual do not bind the Blockchain platform.

Etherion

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Quote from: mobnepal on April 05, 2018, 02:07:33 AM

If bitmain will have such backdoor and pull out the network down than they will be the first one who gonna get bankrupt. They are in huge profit just because of those mining hardwares. If Bitcoin network will be down and people will know that they are behind this they won't be able to sell those devices to even mine forked coin which will quickly come up as future Bitcoin.

At least you have came up with a valid doubt... Wink

Looking at the track record of China government I don't see them stopping at the loss of one company if there is a bigger thread perceived. That is the benefirt of not having a democracy. Ask your self this: Which will carry the most say. Central banks or Bitmain...

Xester

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Bitcoin is really decentralized and this decentralization have been also a problem when bitcoin encounters a technical difficulty. In all manners, before any changes in the code or protocol a consensus must be made and that is problematic due to different views and ideas.

Bitcoin is really decentralized but what you are referring to is not on bitcoin itself but on the monopoly on mining. Therefore we can say that bitcoin is definitely decentralized but its mining is monopolized by some few.

mobnepal

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If bitmain will have such backdoor and pull out the network down than they will be the first one who gonna get bankrupt. They are in huge profit just because of those mining hardwares. If Bitcoin network will be down and people will know that they are behind this they won't be able to sell those devices to even mine forked coin which will quickly come up as future Bitcoin.

At least you have came up with a valid doubt... Wink

Etherion

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Merit: 260

Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 05, 2018, 01:47:29 AM

Quote from: Etherion on April 05, 2018, 01:32:13 AM

If one manufacturer makes the majority of the ASIC miners what will prevent them from building in a backdoor to remotely control all there miners? Therefore hijacking the network and forcing consensus as they will.

Do not worry. Bitcoin is decentralized because there is no single point of failure.

But if Bitmain has a backdoor to control all their miners and they have more than 51% of all hash power under there control surly that is a point of failure? All that Chain government needs to do is give Wu Jihan Founder and Director of Bitmain an instruction to kill bitcoin and it will be done.

Topic: Is it an illusion that bitcoin is decentralized? (Read 254 times)